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Bonehead11
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Bonehead11
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CloseThe idea of this topic is to let you people express your opinion, wich will be highly taken into account, on mine designer choice.
The problem is "leveling up". I personally hate grinding, killing monster for experience just to level up, so I thought "why not ditch this whole old gimmick, in order of something more entertaining for player". Everyone knows, that one of the basic things we love in RPGs is getting faster,stronger,better. So leaving the whole concept of leveling up, in my opinion is ludicrous. So I thought " I love getting stronger, but I hate killing monsters in order to get better at almost everything...its somewhat overused and stupid." Some games such as fallout, baldurs gate, guild wars, gothic, elder scrolls and such inspired me, I took what I loved about "leveling up" and ditched what I hated about it. And came up with mine own "system".
This "system" includes:
- No levels, yes no levels because in reality the idea of you don't have level high enough to take this book/ into your hand is retarded. Ofcourse everyone likes that shiny number that says you are stronger, but in my opinion actions are louder than words, so making your character stronger subtly could work really fine or even better, again in my opinion.
- Fallout style attributes, the system with 9999999 strength is same old same old, and boring, sure you still have other systems, but they are too overcomplicated so they miss the fun factor,for me. I want to walk the middle way, not too complicated, but not too plain, I personally like skill combinations, skills that take brainstorming to use properly, micromanaging, but I hate overcomplicated stuff like in Dungeons and dragons like games. Using overly complicated tables, some brain numbing math algorithms, 2d3+4k8/n=5x4.58645 damage. I want to play a game, not solve math problems...and lets not forget usage of randomness. Sure random stuff happens in real life, but ussually in games its pissing me off. You are big brute with 2 handed badass sword, you are facing giant troll, you attack this giant troll and you miss or that rat has too high level to hit...like sorry but that is utter failure of logic.
-Simple yet complicated skills and combat, I dont want, as mentioned before, complicated damage formulas, I want to keep them plain and simple, but there will be factors as armor, resistances etc. but NO MISS and nothing complicated. Armor will be simple, for instance you have 5 armor enemy deals 15 damage, armor soaks up 5 damage and enemy deals 10 damage, simple,effective. I want to leave miss for good, I want to add evade, but unless that character has "evade trait", yes I will add fallout like traits in game, there wont be chance to miss the enemy.
If you dont want to read the "prologue", skip here.
The main dilemma with this "system" I currently have is with skillpoints. I have almost everything thought out except this, so I would like some advice. I have thought out 3 different paths. I want to make this game replayable, so I will be trying to make different choices, different paths and approaches to problems, for instance I want to make a village that is constantly pillaged by bandits, you would have 3 choices join the militia and fight off bandits, or join bandits and ransack the village. Who you join will affect your karma and mainly what you can learn, for instance when you join militia, you will get better armor, some combat skills and good karma. If you will join the bandits you will get skills that bandits would use, like traps, throwing knifes, you would get alot of gold and negative karma. Or you can just do some quests for both sides and leave them alone.
But here we come where I don't know how to make the skillpoints system. I have thought out 3 possible ways:
1. Classical skill tree
Instead of leveling, you will get skillpoints for completing quests, minigames, wich you can spend on different new active skills, passive skills etc. etc. you know the drill. But the problem with this is that adding special story related skills would be...complicated. I cant miss with a skill tree.
2. Leveling up trough game
This is what I mainly thought off. The more game you play,no skill tree, the more choices you get, the choices you do end up giving you different play style, as I mentioned those bandits before. This could be interesting, but there are many problems, like balancing would be really hard. You would complete a quest for those bandits, the quest giver will reward you with skill, weapon, etc. etc. the main problem what I don't like is that you wont have freedom of becoming what you want.
3. Golden middle road
I think combining these two will be the best, it would compliment each other very well, in my opinion. Adding the skill tree with different paths and adding different "classes" depending on the paths you take in game, could make interesting play styles. It looks nice on paper, but how will it look in game ?
Will this mutant work or should I do it the old fashioned way ? Should I experiment or just follow the used formulas ?
Discuss.
The problem is "leveling up". I personally hate grinding, killing monster for experience just to level up, so I thought "why not ditch this whole old gimmick, in order of something more entertaining for player". Everyone knows, that one of the basic things we love in RPGs is getting faster,stronger,better. So leaving the whole concept of leveling up, in my opinion is ludicrous. So I thought " I love getting stronger, but I hate killing monsters in order to get better at almost everything...its somewhat overused and stupid." Some games such as fallout, baldurs gate, guild wars, gothic, elder scrolls and such inspired me, I took what I loved about "leveling up" and ditched what I hated about it. And came up with mine own "system".
This "system" includes:
- No levels, yes no levels because in reality the idea of you don't have level high enough to take this book/ into your hand is retarded. Ofcourse everyone likes that shiny number that says you are stronger, but in my opinion actions are louder than words, so making your character stronger subtly could work really fine or even better, again in my opinion.
- Fallout style attributes, the system with 9999999 strength is same old same old, and boring, sure you still have other systems, but they are too overcomplicated so they miss the fun factor,for me. I want to walk the middle way, not too complicated, but not too plain, I personally like skill combinations, skills that take brainstorming to use properly, micromanaging, but I hate overcomplicated stuff like in Dungeons and dragons like games. Using overly complicated tables, some brain numbing math algorithms, 2d3+4k8/n=5x4.58645 damage. I want to play a game, not solve math problems...and lets not forget usage of randomness. Sure random stuff happens in real life, but ussually in games its pissing me off. You are big brute with 2 handed badass sword, you are facing giant troll, you attack this giant troll and you miss or that rat has too high level to hit...like sorry but that is utter failure of logic.
-Simple yet complicated skills and combat, I dont want, as mentioned before, complicated damage formulas, I want to keep them plain and simple, but there will be factors as armor, resistances etc. but NO MISS and nothing complicated. Armor will be simple, for instance you have 5 armor enemy deals 15 damage, armor soaks up 5 damage and enemy deals 10 damage, simple,effective. I want to leave miss for good, I want to add evade, but unless that character has "evade trait", yes I will add fallout like traits in game, there wont be chance to miss the enemy.
If you dont want to read the "prologue", skip here.
The main dilemma with this "system" I currently have is with skillpoints. I have almost everything thought out except this, so I would like some advice. I have thought out 3 different paths. I want to make this game replayable, so I will be trying to make different choices, different paths and approaches to problems, for instance I want to make a village that is constantly pillaged by bandits, you would have 3 choices join the militia and fight off bandits, or join bandits and ransack the village. Who you join will affect your karma and mainly what you can learn, for instance when you join militia, you will get better armor, some combat skills and good karma. If you will join the bandits you will get skills that bandits would use, like traps, throwing knifes, you would get alot of gold and negative karma. Or you can just do some quests for both sides and leave them alone.
But here we come where I don't know how to make the skillpoints system. I have thought out 3 possible ways:
1. Classical skill tree
Instead of leveling, you will get skillpoints for completing quests, minigames, wich you can spend on different new active skills, passive skills etc. etc. you know the drill. But the problem with this is that adding special story related skills would be...complicated. I cant miss with a skill tree.
2. Leveling up trough game
This is what I mainly thought off. The more game you play,no skill tree, the more choices you get, the choices you do end up giving you different play style, as I mentioned those bandits before. This could be interesting, but there are many problems, like balancing would be really hard. You would complete a quest for those bandits, the quest giver will reward you with skill, weapon, etc. etc. the main problem what I don't like is that you wont have freedom of becoming what you want.
3. Golden middle road
I think combining these two will be the best, it would compliment each other very well, in my opinion. Adding the skill tree with different paths and adding different "classes" depending on the paths you take in game, could make interesting play styles. It looks nice on paper, but how will it look in game ?
Will this mutant work or should I do it the old fashioned way ? Should I experiment or just follow the used formulas ?
Discuss.
Antilurker77
871
I think a combination of 1 and 2 would work best. Use skill trees to teach a bulk of the player's skills, but use mission rewards to teach players skills you don't want them to skip, like a healing spell.
I like your ideas, but you're using real world in a game. I meant the part about how you don't use leveling up in the real world, to use a book or item. But the thing is, people don't play games to get forced the real world down their throats. Leveling up isn't stupid. It may be to you, because you're tired of that feeling of earning your points and level in a decent, hard fashion. Leveling does 2 things. It adds power over the course of the game, as well is used as a sort of accomplishment/trophy system. That isn't really stupid at all.
The best thing to do, is to keep it. But maybe keep it, and have multiple other ways to be able to get stronger, so others can play it differently if they feel it is boring. So leveling isn't the main thing, but it is a choice.
The best thing to do, is to keep it. But maybe keep it, and have multiple other ways to be able to get stronger, so others can play it differently if they feel it is boring. So leveling isn't the main thing, but it is a choice.
doomed2die
180
Antilurker's idea is good. Equip systems are also nice.
For example, Final Fantasy Tactics: You take classes BUT you learn skills in those classes by equipping equipment with corresponding skills and gaining enough "AP" to "master" the skill (have it without equipping the equip.)
For example, Final Fantasy Tactics: You take classes BUT you learn skills in those classes by equipping equipment with corresponding skills and gaining enough "AP" to "master" the skill (have it without equipping the equip.)
DBAce9Aura
52
@doomed2die: You're thinking of Tactics Advanced and Tactics A2, along with FF9. Just wanted you to know.
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