IS MARKETING KILLING THE WONDER OF GAMES?

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Came across a neat video positing that the overexposure and instant-access to all things game is killing the sense of wonderment that games used to provide

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/the-point-is-marketing-killing-the-wonder-of-games/2300-6420070/?ftag=MKTf7ad449

Do you feel this way? are there cool games that you have played lately (or even in yon distant past) that really gave you a sense of wonderment?


I do feel that way these days, especially in any multiplayer or MMO, where all of the best builds and strategies have long been calculated and mapped out and all that is left to do is execute the prescripted path as well as you can. It feels kind of dull. But also wide open games with no goals bore me (Minecraft, Terraria, etc...)

In the big games, I often see creativity and variety sacrificed on the altar of "balance", all to appease the PvP crowd. Both sides have the exact same units and the exact same skills but with different names. The "Warcraft II" method balance - if everything is the same then they are balanced! that is so lame. Give me variety and options, and fuck PvP in general - it ruins games by making them hypercompetitive and kills wonder. League of Legends got boring quick despite have a great variety of roster players because they only have a single map, and the map is perfectly reflexive. No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination. But I digress.


Is there even a point to playing games anymore? is it still fun just to act out a script?

EDIT:
on the subject of complaining about modern game design, we recently hooked up our NES and my 4yo son - played the crap out of Super Mario 3D World - is playing SMB3 and Chip n' Dales Rescue Rangers. And he is getting destroyed and whines for me to help him play. I say "No, try again". and he did and persevered and even got to Lvl 6 in SMB3 by himself (well, I still have to help him beat Boom Boom). And he got a huge sense of accomplishment and has just in general been much better at dealing with adversity. Because through all his fun times playing through Super Mario 3D World, he never really faced true adversity what with all those invincibility leafs.

Just a personal tale about videogames.
I usually help myself out by just not reading about anything I'm excited for after it comes out. It's pretty rare for me to pay attention to a game as it's being made as well. Generally I find that most of the games that do get seriously over-marketed are easy to predict anyways- COD, some new Zombie bullshit thing, or the latest boring Tolkien wannabe fantasy/Star Wars wannabe Sci-Fi.

There are still games that give me a sense of wonderment. It's obviously impossible to recreate the experience of being young and seeing things for the first time ever, because we've all seen so much as time has went by. But that's not a bad thing. It helps me better appreciate that sense of wonderment, because I can understand why I'm feeling that way.

I mean, I haven't beaten Ni no Kuni, but I was so fascinated by it when I tried it last. It was like staring back into the stuff I found cool as a kid.

Then there's Oblivion and Skyrim. I probably don't even need to explain it. When I heard that Dragonborn took you into the plane of Apocrypha I couldn't wait to see it, it was incredible. Now I have that same anticipation, due to a highly regarded mod I have which adds other daedric realms.

Back when I was into Mass Effect I felt a constant sense of being completely engrossed in this amazing universe. I felt like it was actually the future. Then ME3 smashed it all with a hammer and it's been over ever since.

So no, I don't feel like the sense of wonderment is diminishing. It's just different. That's not really a bad thing.
There's a reason I barely if at all play triple A titles. I prefer niche-games for many reasons : they are not completely in the formula, perhaps not as polished, but they have soul.

I have odd tastes anyway, and while I can play many many things, truly enjoying is another thing.
But I don't think marketing alone is at fault. Marketing in itself is necessary, because we have too many games to choose from and need some method to decide on which we will spend our buckets on. But too much information spoils games.
In fact, any information does. But it also offers a different view on the game .. once you know that it has many hidden themes and details, you will look out for them a little more and notice more you would otherwise. That is usually what replaying would allow you to, so that's perhaps one of the reasons I rarely do that with newer games.

Of course, it's also how we deal with this flood of articles, screens and information.
I like watching teaser trailers, nothing specific. It says a lot about games (not so much for triple A titles, as they often have their own cinmatics, but for different ones) - it gives the style, the atmosphere, a little bit of the music, perhaps a battle-screen and you just get a dip, so you have to find out the rest yourself.
The only time I actively search for more information on a game is when I have not yet decided to buy it. And I wait for reviews to come in for that purpose, if it is an unknown developer or something I may not like. Short ones.

I've never understood how some people are obsessed with knowing EVERYTHING. Heck, story is the last thing I wanna know about beforehand. Nevermind that the beginning of stories is the worst part of it! If the best part is the introduction, then I'm out.
For games of series I know or games I know I wanna buy, I'll stop looking, I'll play it instead (even if that needs a couple more months)

Reminds me of an acquaintance when I used to play WoW (on a private server, mind you). He played on an official server, was and stayed a newbie, rather low leveled, but talked on and on about raids and bosses, and what to do to beat these bosses, and what they drop, and so on.
I had reached that state, but heck, I couldn't care less. (talking about MMOs workings is a waste of time anyhow, unless you're actually trying to apply something)

It's sad, but a certain kind of engagement has been lost. Sure, we can't be surprised anyhow, but even filling out a blank makes it better.
Presents are a good thing for that. When I'd gotten Okami, I hadn't looked up any games yet, so I didn't know a thing. Made it fresh. Sure, it was a great title by itself, but it had something special. Replaying wasn't bad, either.

My favorite titles were among those I knew little to nothing about as well. My first SMT game, Devil Survivor, too, actually.
After that my brother lend me his PS2, along with game recommendations, and I dug in (more SMT, woohoo). Best roster of games I've played for years to come. These games alone have raised my standard drastically.

There are many reasons to play games. There are all kinds of funs, even if it's sometimes braindead hack 'n' slash, brutal difficulty, or just atmospheric experiments. When you know what you can play, you'll play what suits you or your mood.
It's a place to be home, I guess.

If you want to revive that feeling of venturing into the unknown, you'll need to find someone who knows what you like and/or has similiar tastes .. and then have him pick games for you (and possible you for him). Console swaps or so work just as well.
Played Soul Sacrifice over christmas, a truly brilliant game. I didn't know a thing, either.
That way, you get selected games, but don't know a thing.

Heck, now that I read over what I've written here, I might just try that sometime and see what happens.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
I certainly agree that game designers are giving away too much information about their games. However, I can see different sides of the argument.

There are so many different games out there now compared to the NES era. With each game being a pretty big investment financially, a potential player would want to know more about where their money is going. That sense of wonder and mystery that people claim they love so much when they get a new game they haven't heard about doesn't come with a risk. Because most of those people are actually kids that begged their parents to buy the game for them, so they have no real consequences if the game is bad ( I guess you could argue that the wrath of an angry parent is a pretty big risk if you hate the game they bought you). But as those kids grow up, take jobs, get a mortgage, and start dating, they suddenly find they don't have money to buy a game based on vague information.

Funny thing about wallets. They actually get LIGHTER once they slip into your own pocket.

Personally, I love to know exactly what kind of game I'm going to play before I buy it. However, knowing EXACTLY how to play the game, like where to go and what to do, is going too far. However, it's easy to just stop watching the livestream, stop watching the game trailers, and move on with their lives until the game comes out.

I'll give a little story about one of my favorite RPGs: Dragon Age: Origins, and how I came to love it. I must have played through that game at least 7 times. Each time was fresh and exciting because my party configuration was different. So I had different reactions to the same situations because I had different members in my party.

But when it came down to actually PLAYING the game, I was like "...Meh." Too much micromanaging and number crunching for my ADHD-crippled brain to handle. But I liked how the battles themselves played out. Slow paced enough so that I could still control the flow of battle. So what did I do? I turned the difficulty down to normal and played it over and over again.

What does my tastes on Dragon Age: Origins have to do with this topic? Well, anyone who has seen the first trailer for that game could tell you that the game (And all modern Bioware games in general) have a beautiful CG trailer announcing the game... but tells you absolutely NOTHING about the game itself. After looking at that CG trailer, I was hyped. But after seeing the first gameplay trailer, I swore I would never touch the game because of how different it was from the CG trailer (I didn't know any better back then). But after it was released, I saw different videos of all the things you could do in that game, and my desire for that game rekindled all over again. If I hadn't seen those videoes on Youtube, I would forever be preaching to people that Dragon Age: Origins was an overhyped game and accuse Bioware of lying to potential players (ME3 and all its controversy aside).

Anwyays, I don't think the abundance of information is anything to worry about. That sense of wonder is not gone, it's just different.


EDIT: Wow. Did that seriously take me over an hour to write? Look at those long replies as I struggled to type out a paragraph. As I said, I've got a real ADHD-crippled brain.
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APATHY IS FOR COWARDS
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I definitely agree with the idea that wikis can kind of wreck game experiences. I'm not sure how you avoid that besides designing games that maintain mystery without being improved by a wiki.

For example, in Minecraft the crafting is incredibly difficult and not very fun without a wiki - it's just moving different resources around into a shape that sort of makes sense. There's not much in the sense of mystery; you could keep the wonder of discovering new items without forcing players to screw around with the workbench forever. In the end, I'll always just end up keeping the wiki open in another tab when I need to craft stuff, which is a poor workaround.

I always wondered what an MMO with evolving random elements would be like... a game like WoW, but with a focus on exploration instead of progression, where the fun was in finding new things, not min-maxing to hell.
author=kentona
I do feel that way these days, especially in any multiplayer or MMO, where all of the best builds and strategies have long been calculated and mapped out and all that is left to do is execute the prescripted path as well as you can.


the best builds and strats in competitive games are usually changing and constantly being experimented with. i've never seen 2 players do the exact same strat because one player is bound to get an advantage, or one player is going to have to defend if the other player becomes dominant at a moment. so naturally it isn't who can do the strat better, it's who can make the right decisions based on what the other decisions were. your post does not line up at all with how most multiplayer games are even played. it might make sense if both players were racing on two separate identical tracks and could no way interfere with each others play other than spitting.
A perfect balance also means that you can go for any build and don't have to follow an "ideal build" from a guide. So that's also a positive thing.
I like that there is information available that I can ignore.

Well sometimes. The thing is that I sometimes want to know a lot about a game before I purchase it and sometimes I want to know nothing. And I can get usually get both. And that is a Good Thing(tm). The consumer can choose exactly how much information he/she/it wants before playing.

Of course occasionally it is almost shoved down our throats. If I have twitter with popups occasionally there will be things I don't want to know. But more often than not this is after a game has been released and it's not the marketers that are saying these things. It's the gamers that just can't shut up about the latest thing.

For example I was thinking that maybe I'd enjoy Bioshock Infinite eventually. But after its release it was really difficult to avoid spoilers for that game. Before it came out: not very difficult at all.

Gameplaywise I do enjoy getting information about what kind of game I'm getting since it's... well it's going to be something I'm going to play. So I like to know if it's turn-based or a shooter or what have you.

So yeah, occasionally the sense of wonder is lost. But it's not like it's hard to keep that sense of wonder if you really need. It's similar with movies. If I want to I can get leaked scripts, watch every featurette and know every story beat of a movie. But I can also just watch a teaser or trailer, decide "I'm gonna go see this." and then ignore every little bit of casting news and what actors wound up on the cutting room floor. But the fact that this information is out there is great. For people who want to know before they committ and for people (like me) who like to know after the fact.

There's that too. After enjoying a movie or a game it's nice to see what kind of discourse is going on and what the creators were thinking when they made all that stuff. Special features and information.


So yeah. Marketing is killing the wonder of games only if you let it.
I do believe that the sense of wonder stems from discovering something new, understanding something you did not know about.

author=wiki
In Brave New Words: The Oxford Dictionary of Science Fiction the term sense of wonder is defined as follows:

SENSE OF WONDER n. a feeling of awakening or awe triggered by an expansion of one’s awareness of what is possible or by confrontation with the vastness of space and time, as brought on by reading science fiction.:179

Reading about a game's strategy tips or looking at too much stream is detrimental to your own gaming experience. While I found it satisfying to summon Knights of the Round against Emerald Weapon, I had no sense of accomplishment or wonder in breeding a golden chocobo because I had to look at a FAQ to figure out how.

I last felt a great deal of wonderment a few years ago when I first played Odin Sphere, after I found out about it while browsing gamespot. I only had to look at 20 seconds of footage to know that I would love this game and immediately bought a copy on Ebay.
Many of my favorite games I had limited knowledge of when I started playing them.

I think that solo games make it easier to feel anything while you play. MMOs usually encourage competition, whether it is between players or as a self-imposed need to catch up. It's a different mindset.
I can't watch the video because I don't have flash on my work computers but I saw for a moment a dude wrapped in an American flag so I assume he's batshit insane and pines for the days of this:
Games became too expensive to develop commercially. Not only that, they are being sold for less. I remember buying Final Fantasy 6 (née 3) for $72. I can't think of a single modern game that demands that cost... up front.

As a result, game marketers are under a lot of pressure to expose enough information to entice people to even drop $40 on a game.

I wonder what the development costs are for each genre of game, across each different console (or computer)...
My ancient computer nearly exploded trying to view that video, so I'll just comment on what's in this thread...

My memory is so bad I can be surprised by games I've already beaten before...

This honestly sounds more like a "do strategy forums and GameFAQs ruin the wonder of gaming" than anything to do with marketing, unless marketers are really spoiling a lot nowadays and I just haven't been paying attention. I know reviews and packaging sometimes spoil late-game stuff like a bunch of douches, but I haven't heard of trailers and such spoiling too much.

I'll agree with Shinan that its nice that the info is available, because some games' secrets (or sometimes even normal progression) are complete bullshit. I'll also agree with Darken about how the competitive field is always changing (Final Destination isn't even the most popular Smash stage for tourneys anymore -- its usually Battlefield or some derivative), so "acting out a script" is probably an extreme assessment.

As silly as this sounds, I get a lot more "wonderment" and excitement exploring a game's mechanics than the environments. I don't get too giddy finding a random hole in the ground of Hyrule Field, but when I found out that enemy lasers turn into Energy or Gold items in Akai Katana I was like "Dude! That's a thing!?" and it completely changed how I played the game. Likewise with even silly little things like how you don't have to actually somersault under things in Sonic Adventure 2 (you can just hold the button down and you clip right through the things) get me pointlessly giddy. These kinds of things don't get talked about in marketing or even amongst most players too often, so I'm usually safe on that front.

Of course, there comes a point where I feel I've found all I'm going to find on my own in a game, in which case its off to GameFAQs, SpeedDemosArchive, Shmups forum, or whatever to see what all kind of crazy tricks and glitches are in a game, and how many I can feasibly pull off myself.

That being said, I do enjoy the suspense as to what the next stage will be and what enemies and bosses are going to do, so I do get pretty miffed when that shit gets spoiled (every fucking video review of Sin & Punishment 2 spoils parts of the penultimate stage).

The only instance I can think of where seeing too much of the game turned me off to it was when I watched my sister complete Twilight Princess. After seeing all the game had to offer, I didn't feel any need to play it myself since it seemed such a snoozer of a game.
You don't really play Sin & Punishment 2 for the story. You WILL be surprised by the amazing gameplay anyway!
I used to think the Persona series was a truly subversive masterpiece of postmodern storytelling and game design.

I felt Persona 4 was a turning point at which it began to pander to otaku fanbases: stripping down (or removing) the most interesting characteristics in lieu of yet another idealized hetero-male Japanese high school fantasy that we see in so many anime series and visual novels.

And now sure enough, there's a media-mix empire of TV anime, character merchandise, lame stage shows and fanservice side games about dancing girls. I can't stand it. I hate it. I don't care any more.

And yes, I know that my opinion is unpopular.


edit: for an example that more people can probably agree with, Squaresoft was once a wonderfully-inventive development house that were not afraid to take risks, as demonstrated by their late-90s Playstation experiments. How successful these experiments were are debatable, but it's undeniable that they were unique. Now it's just franchise, franchise, franchise...We'll never see anything like Bushido Blade, Racing Lagoon or Einhander from them again.

Indie games seem to be where all the unfiltered creativity is, these days.
It's the consumer's choice to 'ruin' the amazement and wonder. Developer's these days show a lot of material before release these days. You can often see many of the games locales and characters if you decide to look them up, not to mention new trend seems to be "leaked" material.

The player can also follow strict guides and FAQs to platinum the game as quickly as possible, or you can just look Let'sPlay from youtube if you just want to cross the game from your checklist.

Personally I choose to play games for fun and stray away from the over-exposure of trailers and info, and couldn't care less about FAQs and the most optimal builds for characters.
author=0range00
Personally I choose to play games for fun and stray away from the over-exposure of trailers and info, and couldn't care less about FAQs and the most optimal builds for characters.


Yeah. I mean for a second or third run, it's nice to have some comparison. Or some additional information for something that is still missing for completion, but right from the start? Nope.
Although some games make it nearly impossible to get certain items if you do not know certain things right from the start
.. FFXII *caugh*
I hate that idea.
in regards to mechanics, i really do enjoy it when i find one little thing in a game years later. not even secrets, just some move that's not entirely necessary and only mentioned in the instruction booklet. i remember finding out how to run while shooting in mgs1 in my 2nd playthrough. also I guess playing super mario 64 as an adult + watching speedruns made me appreciate it more on an exciting level. such as spamming dive to gain speed or kick jumping up a slope you don't want to go down.

i don't think i can be impressed by the scope of games anymore. like i know im in a skybox with cardboard cutout mountains in the distance. i do get impressed when a game does a lot of complicated "cinematic" set pieces all during gameplay though. for example fighting angels on a plane while it's about to crash in slow mo is just "cool"
I dunno guys. I think it would have been awesome to discover that Megaman was a playable character in Smash Bros U as I was playing it, instead of 1.5 years before its release as it was blasted across every medium ever.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I spend all day in an online game with a small community, which I run, and thus need to moderate the discussion channels in, so I can't really "turn off" the constant kotaku newsfeed. I am bombarded with information regarding, at the very least, Square Enix games and RPGs.

I really don't want to know anything about Dragon Age: Inquisition, but thanks to my faithful playerbase discussing things they learned from the dozens of videos and interviews and press releases, I now know the entire plot, a laundry list of mechanical changes, a precise list of every recurring character who will be present in the game, to what extent each of those characters will respond to various situations in the game that refer to things that the player had control over in the first two Dragon Age games, which allies will be romancable under which conditions, which voice actor will be used for certain characters, how the new crafting system works, and so forth. THANKS GUYS. I don't even have to play the game now!
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APATHY IS FOR COWARDS
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author=kentona
I dunno guys. I think it would have been awesome to discover that Megaman was a playable character in Smash Bros U as I was playing it, instead of 1.5 years before its release as it was blasted across every medium ever.

Yea, I can kinda get behind this. I understand that players wanna know as soon as possible, but I doubt they'll leave even one character unspoiled before release.

Maybe only indie games can really do this any more and still see success? People were in love with Frog Fractions and Candy Box.
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