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THE OFFICIAL ENGLISH 2K3 VERSION IS OUT!
Posts
Dragon_Kamillo
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Close"Maybe battle layout menu options too, like being able to choose between Turn Based and ATB modes. And built-in support for CTB might be nice." - this is good idea, replaced RM2k. This is possible (is turn based battle patch for RM2k3, which make something similar). But I am afraid about reactions enterbain - this is release RM2k and RM2k3 in one program.
author=bulmabriefs144
a lot of stuff
really, you should avoid quoting stuff directly. >_> or put it at least on hide tags! :v But I agree 100% with these new features, some being more important than others (esp. conditional branch stuff, I think menu commands are less important since they can be substituted by code but optimizing coding is essential)
Also I'd like to stress an optimization of the rm2k3 battle formulae, if that is possible, for we all know it is utterly broken; Also, another thing that would be simply amazing would be to have more graphical control over stuff, esp. battle stuff; eg. A command in the animation window that tints the battlebackground, a way to set animation frames behind the battlers, more controls over monster death animation (the straight fading we have looks pretty ugly imo, kind of plastic, it'd be nice if the sprite changed to, say, black, and THEN faded. that kinda control) these things would definitely be small details but would be able to make rm2k3 battles look so much better... :D
Also, blending modes are possible for rm2k3, aren't they?
I'm sorry, it must be bad that we're all asking for more stuff, but since this is official this is our only chance to correct for once and for all the flaws within rm2k3 and bring it closer to the sweetened version of the tool we have in our mem'ries ;w;~
author=ExtremeDevelopment
Is it really that different?What are the new features?
It's legal.
author=Dragon_Kamillo
"Maybe battle layout menu options too, like being able to choose between Turn Based and ATB modes. And built-in support for CTB might be nice." - this is good idea, replaced RM2k. This is possible (is turn based battle patch for RM2k3, which make something similar). But I am afraid about reactions enterbain - this is release RM2k and RM2k3 in one program.
No it's not.
It is a legal version, this means it can be worked any way we want.
Copyright is intended to protect against outright copying. But it does not prohibit ideas. XP has self switches, so does VX. 2k3 needs them in the worst way, are they prohibited? No! As long as Cherry uses source code that he made himself.
There was a movie called Flash of Genius where they were establishing in a patent case whether certain tools could be used to make something, whether the tools could be trademarked. As in, the inventor of a "eyelid" mechanism for windshield wipers sued big companies for stealing his idea, they claimed it was theirs and showed how his device had all the same devices (he used Shakespeare and the English language to prove otherwise, showing that all ideas have component parts, and there may be several ways to put together a thing).
The thing is, the more features Cherry personally makes, the more legal it is, not less. Enterbrain could squawk, but it's not valid. A toggle feature for both systems is a new feature. And it was attempted in 2k3 anyway (active/wait), they just horribly failed because Enterbrain sucks.
I would like to change the battle system in common events for certain battles (basically an Active Wait Control that fully toggles between ATB and Turn Based) and regulate turns based on who goes first (back attack, enemy goes first, and same for pincer; but also, if the party is asleep, we skip their turn). There is a way of doing this, but it routinely breaks, because the turn system is broken, and doesn't deal with turns properly. If for instance, party is sleeping, most of the Turn Based modes I've seen freeze, instead of skipping to monster turn. If party can't move with no turn 1% or something, then it would instead gameover rather than switch.
New menu commands could just be added to page 4 (after battle commands, there is pretty much a whole page that is wasted. Why someone would do that, I haven't a clue). But yes, better conditional branches is high priority, turn based is second priority (since battles using the current patches can freeze if the system doesn't recognize that everyone paralyzed is a gameover), and third is all the other stuff.
If you don't mind, I could make a picture mockup of some of the stuff I'd like to see. I'll start with common events.
Does this also mean that RPG Maker 2003 materials can be used in XP, VX, Ace, IG Maker, and vice versa? (Provided you own all the engines that the materials are in of course.)
Yeah, it's in the End User License Agreement that the RPG Maker 2003 RTP can be used in the other engines, as long as you own a copy of both of them, of course.
J-Man
4684
I'm a tad confused here, how do I get the battle events to run in the common event thigie? I'm starting to wonder if I got ahead of myself and misunderstood the feature of it. A little clarification would definitely help in this regard.
Lazymoth
0
Hey Cherry, I'm so stoked to see all the work you guys have done to upgrade RPG Maker 2003 and bring its compatibility up to date. It's really amazing, thank you so much!
The thing I would want to request the most would be control over the damage algorithm. I know it's something like: ((a.atk)/2)-((b.def)/4) with a small degree of variation, and I always disliked this and wished that I could change it.
My favorite thing about VXA is the ability to completely customize the damage formulas (especially per skill) as I really dislike the default formulas in the engines. I'd love to be able to have something as simple as a flat (a.atk)-(b.def) with no randomization to it, similar to the flat numbers of Paper Mario.
Being able to just change the default formula would be great, and I know it's a tall order, but also being able to change formulas on a per-skill basis would be even more amazing. With VXA I was able to have skills with formulas like (((a.atk)*2)+(a.luk))-(b.def). Being able to do this kind of thing for different special attacks really adds a variety to gameplay that vanilla RPG Maker generally falls short of providing, and really lets the user instill their own unique flavor to the game mechanics.
Sorry to drop a big feature request on you, but that's literally the only thing I could think of requesting from RM2k3. It's a perfect package otherwise, to me. Also, SO glad you fixed up the ATB speed...
The thing I would want to request the most would be control over the damage algorithm. I know it's something like: ((a.atk)/2)-((b.def)/4) with a small degree of variation, and I always disliked this and wished that I could change it.
My favorite thing about VXA is the ability to completely customize the damage formulas (especially per skill) as I really dislike the default formulas in the engines. I'd love to be able to have something as simple as a flat (a.atk)-(b.def) with no randomization to it, similar to the flat numbers of Paper Mario.
Being able to just change the default formula would be great, and I know it's a tall order, but also being able to change formulas on a per-skill basis would be even more amazing. With VXA I was able to have skills with formulas like (((a.atk)*2)+(a.luk))-(b.def). Being able to do this kind of thing for different special attacks really adds a variety to gameplay that vanilla RPG Maker generally falls short of providing, and really lets the user instill their own unique flavor to the game mechanics.
Sorry to drop a big feature request on you, but that's literally the only thing I could think of requesting from RM2k3. It's a perfect package otherwise, to me. Also, SO glad you fixed up the ATB speed...
Mason_Wheeler
170
author=Cherry
Unfortunately the source code was lost over time. Therefore, it was a bit difficult to implement the real "killer features".
Then how was it possible to rewrite the rendering code (removing DirectDraw) and several of the other changes listed in the changelog? A lot of those things look like they're beyond the scope of what can realistically be done by binary-level patching.
OI! Keep in mind that they lost the source code. And this is an old engine, they're not going to spend a lot of time adding new features and stuff when they're probably working on a new engine (if the hint in the video is to be believed).
A few things were fixed and are being fixed but they're not going to dictate a lot of time to making it the perfect engine. So why should you buy it?
Because you've all had access to a pirated version for YEARS and they let you. Now that a legal version is out - asked for by many of us - buy it to pay back for all the time you've used the illegal version. It's not a huge cost and it's a great little engine even if it does have some bits and bobs that aren't perfect.
And hey, you get to use the RTP of 2k3 in the other engines legally - including the battle characters!
Don't complain that it doesn't have x or y. If you have a bug, post it here, but otherwise, anything else they add is gravy on top of a gravy cake. Be thankful you're even getting a legit version, let alone one with some additions and good edits added.
A few things were fixed and are being fixed but they're not going to dictate a lot of time to making it the perfect engine. So why should you buy it?
Because you've all had access to a pirated version for YEARS and they let you. Now that a legal version is out - asked for by many of us - buy it to pay back for all the time you've used the illegal version. It's not a huge cost and it's a great little engine even if it does have some bits and bobs that aren't perfect.
And hey, you get to use the RTP of 2k3 in the other engines legally - including the battle characters!
Don't complain that it doesn't have x or y. If you have a bug, post it here, but otherwise, anything else they add is gravy on top of a gravy cake. Be thankful you're even getting a legit version, let alone one with some additions and good edits added.
never be thankful to a for-profit corporation. they're not saviors of the old days, they just want your money =P
if you want an ancient piece of software, buy it. if not, don't.
there is nothing wrong with complaining, although i'll point many of you to rgss3 =)
if you want an ancient piece of software, buy it. if not, don't.
there is nothing wrong with complaining, although i'll point many of you to rgss3 =)
J-Man
4684
author=Liberty
Because you've all had access to a pirated version for YEARS and they let you. Now that a legal version is out - asked for by many of us - buy it to pay back for all the time you've used the illegal version. It's not a huge cost and it's a great little engine even if it does have some bits and bobs that aren't perfect.
Ha ha ha, that's the main reason why I bought it, as appreciation for being able to use all these years. :P
But ever since buying rm2k3. It awoke something in me again that I'm trying to quell really bad, I've moved on to VX Ace. But... damn it... T_T;
Lazymoth
0
author=Craze
never be thankful to a for-profit corporation. they're not saviors of the old days, they just want your money =P
Hah, that's true, but nonetheless I'm happy that a product which brought me joy over a decade ago is modernized, and thankful for the roles Cherry and Nessiah have in making it happen. Not to mention just $15 is a steal, honestly, and I'm happy to give back a little after using the program extensively in the past as a kid.
Here's a weird bug thing that I think Shoobinator or someone mentioned earlier in the thread:
The aspect ratio in the new rendering mode is a tad bit off. The width seems to be too wide. I took a regular screencap of the new rendering mode at 1920x1200, and sized up the old rendering mode from 640x480 to 1600x1200 and overlayed them. It looks like the new one stretches the width out to 1680, so there's an extra 40px on either side.
See the image below:
(old in red, new behind it)
Also, as an aside: with the new rendering engine, it might be beneficial to have a screenshot key now, since using printscreen gets you a screencap at whatever the desktop resolution is as opposed to 640x480 (Vista+) or 320x240 (XP etc). For newbies, this would kind of be a pain because they would either post 1920x1200 screencaps all the time, or have to size them down manually in paint or photoshop.
The aspect ratio in the new rendering mode is a tad bit off. The width seems to be too wide. I took a regular screencap of the new rendering mode at 1920x1200, and sized up the old rendering mode from 640x480 to 1600x1200 and overlayed them. It looks like the new one stretches the width out to 1680, so there's an extra 40px on either side.
See the image below:
(old in red, new behind it)
Also, as an aside: with the new rendering engine, it might be beneficial to have a screenshot key now, since using printscreen gets you a screencap at whatever the desktop resolution is as opposed to 640x480 (Vista+) or 320x240 (XP etc). For newbies, this would kind of be a pain because they would either post 1920x1200 screencaps all the time, or have to size them down manually in paint or photoshop.
Urgh, new rendering?!? I don't relish having to worry about all pictures getting adjusted.
As promised, here's my ideas.
For reference, the Item Usage Condition is a Condition Branch just if a certain item is used, Event Item Menu is like that thing that pops up in Final Fantasy games when they're like "give him a potion" and you have to choose the item to give, Temporary Imported Events is because the system doesn't want you moving stuff from map to map, make a copy of Glowing Orbs of Fate event from map three, move it to an area (and somehow delete the copy afterwards, maybe through the same command? Yeah, sorta half-baked), Line of sight moves with an event, the Hero XY Polygon is like maybe I have a pit trap in the center of the room I can just have it activate within that square or circle or triangle by shutting a switch ON/OFF rather than adding variables, Arrow Event is basically to remotely trigger an event by XY stuff and facing, Parallax Tile Mask makes a mask to hide tile stuff where a picture is (showing the parallax instead of the picture), Gain/Lose Followers basically lets a creature follow you and you can choose how many squares distance he keeps, Reserve Party Swap basically makes custom party change menus simplified by swapping out for if the character is in main party or reserve (ooooh, may want an If Hero Is In Reserve Precondition), Game Clock stuff streamlines the game_clock plugin, and the... Exfonts thing is stupid. I just added it as an afterthought because I didn't know what to add and was like, maybe a way to switch between exfonts?
Maybe a mouse/keyboard interface instead of the Exfonts. It'd be nice if we got mouse and joypad interface. I dunno about whether the importing battle events makes some of these obsolete. And maybe something like DynText for writing custom menus.
Obviously this would all need testing and input, and some stuff that is redundant could be left out, in favor of stuff I forgot.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope the version gives you a user code and doesn't make you keep repaying if your computer for instance has to be reformatted.
Also, where is the non-steam link? I don't use steam.
(Urgh, checked the site, there isn't one. CUUUUURSE YOU!!! I mean, uhhh, can you make a non-steam version?)
I totally think you should introduce a crapload of features, and then be like New Rpg (Tsukuru) 2003
As promised, here's my ideas.
For reference, the Item Usage Condition is a Condition Branch just if a certain item is used, Event Item Menu is like that thing that pops up in Final Fantasy games when they're like "give him a potion" and you have to choose the item to give, Temporary Imported Events is because the system doesn't want you moving stuff from map to map, make a copy of Glowing Orbs of Fate event from map three, move it to an area (and somehow delete the copy afterwards, maybe through the same command? Yeah, sorta half-baked), Line of sight moves with an event, the Hero XY Polygon is like maybe I have a pit trap in the center of the room I can just have it activate within that square or circle or triangle by shutting a switch ON/OFF rather than adding variables, Arrow Event is basically to remotely trigger an event by XY stuff and facing, Parallax Tile Mask makes a mask to hide tile stuff where a picture is (showing the parallax instead of the picture), Gain/Lose Followers basically lets a creature follow you and you can choose how many squares distance he keeps, Reserve Party Swap basically makes custom party change menus simplified by swapping out for if the character is in main party or reserve (ooooh, may want an If Hero Is In Reserve Precondition), Game Clock stuff streamlines the game_clock plugin, and the... Exfonts thing is stupid. I just added it as an afterthought because I didn't know what to add and was like, maybe a way to switch between exfonts?
Maybe a mouse/keyboard interface instead of the Exfonts. It'd be nice if we got mouse and joypad interface. I dunno about whether the importing battle events makes some of these obsolete. And maybe something like DynText for writing custom menus.
Obviously this would all need testing and input, and some stuff that is redundant could be left out, in favor of stuff I forgot.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope the version gives you a user code and doesn't make you keep repaying if your computer for instance has to be reformatted.
Also, where is the non-steam link? I don't use steam.
(Urgh, checked the site, there isn't one. CUUUUURSE YOU!!! I mean, uhhh, can you make a non-steam version?)
I totally think you should introduce a crapload of features, and then be like New Rpg (Tsukuru) 2003
Mason_Wheeler
170
BTW for those worried about project imports and the different RTP names, I'm in the middle of writing up a converter that will automatically scan your project for RTP files and convert them to the equivalent new names. It'll probably be done tomorrow or early next week...
Bulma they DID introduce a ton of new features. It's called RPG Maker VX Ace.
@mason and cherry: applying the standard multiplier of quadrupling programming time I expect your new stuff no sooner than 4 weeks from now.
author=Lazymothyou can totally be thankful. People don't do things solely for money, and that includes people that worked on the rm2k3 translation. Passion and care contribute to motivation too and not just mad bank.author=CrazeHah, that's true, but nonetheless I'm happy that a product which brought me joy over a decade ago is modernized, and thankful for the roles Cherry and Nessiah have in making it happen. Not to mention just $15 is a steal, honestly, and I'm happy to give back a little after using the program extensively in the past as a kid.
never be thankful to a for-profit corporation. they're not saviors of the old days, they just want your money =P
@mason and cherry: applying the standard multiplier of quadrupling programming time I expect your new stuff no sooner than 4 weeks from now.
author=Craze
never be thankful to a for-profit corporation. they're not saviors of the old days, they just want your money =P
if you want an ancient piece of software, buy it. if not, don't.
there is nothing wrong with complaining, although i'll point many of you to rgss3 =)
If I was in this for the money I wouldn't have finished/accepted it and just left. Since the amount of pain translating 2k3 when I could be doing my own games is not worth it unless I actually love RM. :P
author=Mason_Wheelerauthor=CherryThen how was it possible to rewrite the rendering code (removing DirectDraw) and several of the other changes listed in the changelog? A lot of those things look like they're beyond the scope of what can realistically be done by binary-level patching.
Unfortunately the source code was lost over time. Therefore, it was a bit difficult to implement the real "killer features".
We reversed engineered it.
The source code is gone that's why EB even dropped it in Japan.
Mason_Wheeler
170
author=kentona
@mason and cherry: applying the standard multiplier of quadrupling programming time I expect your new stuff no sooner than 4 weeks from now.
I've actually got all of the file format reading and writing code already written. Now I just need to write the search-and-replace code, and figure out which filenames match up with which.
Wow, I'm gone a week and I come back to something soooo amazing! (tho technically we're not 100% back yet, as I'm typing this on my phone from a rest stop a few hours from home XD ).
But still, this is an incredible accomplishment and both Cherry and Nessy deserve a huuuuge round of applause for making this a reality! :DDDDD
But still, this is an incredible accomplishment and both Cherry and Nessy deserve a huuuuge round of applause for making this a reality! :DDDDD
you can be thankful to the people you know. i may not agree with everything nessiah does ever and i don't know cherry at all but i respect their work, and nessiah has been a helpful frontwoman between the company and myself in the past. i'm not gonna deny that individual people don't have heart!
buuuuut unless i'm mistaken, it's not like all the money goes directly to them. whatever the individual ambitions, they're still just working for whoever the money goes to. you start to get into trouble when you see any sort of company as your friend or as some sort of savior. you can be glad that kleenex makes nice tissues, and you can enjoy using their product when you have a cold, but sitting down and saying "wow i'm so thankful for kleenex producing these" helps nobody. (this is an awful analogy, roll with it pls. tl;dr: don't worship companies)
sorry if it sounded like an attack on the people who worked on this! i'm saying don't be thankful for degica/enterbrain/whoever actually sanctioned the rerelease/english release. it's just a computer program, nostalgia or no.
i mostly was saying that liberty saying "don't complain" is completely antithetical to how paid-for services and products work. if you go to a restaurant and the soup is cold, ask for better soup or a refund. if you buy a gift card for your brother and it doesn't work properly, contact customer support and make a complaint. there is absolutely no reason to be silent about a program or any other service/product. the people who worked on it being active members of the site muddies things up a lot, but it's important to not confuse personal relationships with business. buying 2k3 off of steam is a business action. complaining about a bug is a business action. wishing that an ancient piece of software has some feature is a business action (a silly one? probably! but still 100% acceptable as long as you're not being whiny and ridiculous).
buuuuut unless i'm mistaken, it's not like all the money goes directly to them. whatever the individual ambitions, they're still just working for whoever the money goes to. you start to get into trouble when you see any sort of company as your friend or as some sort of savior. you can be glad that kleenex makes nice tissues, and you can enjoy using their product when you have a cold, but sitting down and saying "wow i'm so thankful for kleenex producing these" helps nobody. (this is an awful analogy, roll with it pls. tl;dr: don't worship companies)
sorry if it sounded like an attack on the people who worked on this! i'm saying don't be thankful for degica/enterbrain/whoever actually sanctioned the rerelease/english release. it's just a computer program, nostalgia or no.
i mostly was saying that liberty saying "don't complain" is completely antithetical to how paid-for services and products work. if you go to a restaurant and the soup is cold, ask for better soup or a refund. if you buy a gift card for your brother and it doesn't work properly, contact customer support and make a complaint. there is absolutely no reason to be silent about a program or any other service/product. the people who worked on it being active members of the site muddies things up a lot, but it's important to not confuse personal relationships with business. buying 2k3 off of steam is a business action. complaining about a bug is a business action. wishing that an ancient piece of software has some feature is a business action (a silly one? probably! but still 100% acceptable as long as you're not being whiny and ridiculous).
