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Posts
BareGamer
562
BareGamer
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CloseI don't really like having to enter a room and search each and every crate. I just want to grab my poor little potion and move on.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Have any of you ever played an indie game called La Mulana? La Mulana has lots and lots of hidden stuff that you find by searching (or using specific items) in specific places.
FUCK LA MULANA.
Okay, supposedly, there are riddles that are meant to lead to you many of these places. The riddles are beyond indecipherable, and often there are no visual clues to let you know that, hey, this generic floor tile in room 11-B is exactly the same place on the screen as a sacred statue is in room 2-K, and 11-B and 2-K are inverse coordinates of each-other, which is implied by the riddle "Opposite the idol, the giant's secret awaits" that you read 12 hours ago on a tablet in the lava zone, so you should attack this ground tile with your katana repeatedly until a statue pops out of it.
Because the riddles are about as useful as a kick in the teeth, and in many cases there just isn't even a riddle at all to point you towards things you have to find, you pretty much just have to press every button on every tile. Moreover, you need to find almost every item to beat the game. Holy shit. This game is what happens when the "press A on a fairly normal-looking spot to find a secret" method of exploration/searching is taken to its logical extreme.
Seriously, if you've never played La Mulana, as a game designer, you absolutely need to. It's a Castlevania/Metroid type side-scrolling platform adventure game, where you unlock new areas and secrets in old maps as you go, and spend a lot of your time backtracking looking for things that have changed and places to use your new ice cape or anchor or whatever. It does a lot of stuff really well, and is legitimately fun in many parts, which is what makes the really horrid style of searching (which gets exponentially worse as the game goes on) so frustrating.
FUCK LA MULANA.
Okay, supposedly, there are riddles that are meant to lead to you many of these places. The riddles are beyond indecipherable, and often there are no visual clues to let you know that, hey, this generic floor tile in room 11-B is exactly the same place on the screen as a sacred statue is in room 2-K, and 11-B and 2-K are inverse coordinates of each-other, which is implied by the riddle "Opposite the idol, the giant's secret awaits" that you read 12 hours ago on a tablet in the lava zone, so you should attack this ground tile with your katana repeatedly until a statue pops out of it.
Because the riddles are about as useful as a kick in the teeth, and in many cases there just isn't even a riddle at all to point you towards things you have to find, you pretty much just have to press every button on every tile. Moreover, you need to find almost every item to beat the game. Holy shit. This game is what happens when the "press A on a fairly normal-looking spot to find a secret" method of exploration/searching is taken to its logical extreme.
Seriously, if you've never played La Mulana, as a game designer, you absolutely need to. It's a Castlevania/Metroid type side-scrolling platform adventure game, where you unlock new areas and secrets in old maps as you go, and spend a lot of your time backtracking looking for things that have changed and places to use your new ice cape or anchor or whatever. It does a lot of stuff really well, and is legitimately fun in many parts, which is what makes the really horrid style of searching (which gets exponentially worse as the game goes on) so frustrating.
Cozzer
0
author=Large
This is what I'm doing in mine.
Feel free to offer critique.
I'd like it only if you are VERY careful in being consistent and if your world makes sense.
For example: you can jump over every 2-tile pit but you can never jump over a 3-tile one; you never find items in places that any sane man wouldn't search; if usually doors are locked, there isn't one open for the sake of the plot unless it has a reason to be; etcetera.
If you tell me to explore by myself and then give me a world where basic logic doesn't apply, I'll get angry.
I got stuck in a lot of games where the solution was "see that gap exacly like the ones you couldn't jump over? Well, you can jump over THIS one!" or "see these 10 houses? The 5th one isn't closed!" or "see that crate? Some crazy man put a key in there!".
author=arcan
game that sticks out = higher quality game
This is not true. I wish it were, but it's not.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Superman 64 sticks out superbly among all the N64 games - it's one of the few that is still a household name today. Things can stick out for being worse than usual. Or just for being different from usual, without being better than usual.
But I'm not sure how the original statement was supposed to be relevant to this topic... like, at all.
But I'm not sure how the original statement was supposed to be relevant to this topic... like, at all.
author=kentona
It may not be absolutely true, but it generally is.
Interestingly enough, I think my point is closer to HOW MUCH a game sticks out. Yeah, most of the time, quality games get noticed. But even amongst popular games, the popularity isn't indicative of its quality.
author=LockeZ
But I'm not sure how the original statement was supposed to be relevant to this topic... like, at all.
The reason is this is basically Craze's argument. He's arguing against popularity contest and for pure quality. It's debatable which is more important to people, but its definitely NOT popularity = quality, which is what I interpreted someone saying.
Darken
3952
i like how everyone jumps on the boat of saying "WELL, I WOULD RATHER PLAY AN UNORIGINAL QUALITY GAME THAN AN ORIGINAL CRAPPY GAME" like who cares?? what does this prove? I think what he means by sticking out is actually taking the liberty of executing something boldly and not be afraid to experiment, how does this equal absolute shit? and if it does is there any wrong with that? do you guys realize that you are in an amateur community where there is no financial gain to be had if you do it by the book?
too many of you rely on this supposed LOGICAL DESIGN when it's all just square enix bullshit. if i wanted a super quality game i would probably stop digging through RM games in general.
too many of you rely on this supposed LOGICAL DESIGN when it's all just square enix bullshit. if i wanted a super quality game i would probably stop digging through RM games in general.
Geez, people. Enjoy your crappy games all you want, just don't tell us we have to see so much merit in them too. At least we have 'rules' to back up our point of view; plenty of them in fact, from all kind of disciplines. You only have whatever romantic idea of what a game should be at your favor, and that can only work so well... And even then, I'd rather have a decent, ignored game than a crappy, popular one.
Well, to begin with I suggest you to use a picture (GASP!) for this kind of thing. Make your own pop-up message; use a small no mono-spaced pixel font for better results. The reason for this is because the 200 character limit of the default message system is often not enough to explain what you want in one single go, and spreading information along several message boxes can look ugly and is just unpractical.
After that I think is mostly a matter of choice... I prefer to make those spots visible in plain sight, but only when the player gets close enough to them. This leaves room for exploration but without the frustration of having to guess/miss the exact spot when an action can be done.
author=Large
This is what I'm doing in mine.
Feel free to offer critique.
Well, to begin with I suggest you to use a picture (GASP!) for this kind of thing. Make your own pop-up message; use a small no mono-spaced pixel font for better results. The reason for this is because the 200 character limit of the default message system is often not enough to explain what you want in one single go, and spreading information along several message boxes can look ugly and is just unpractical.
After that I think is mostly a matter of choice... I prefer to make those spots visible in plain sight, but only when the player gets close enough to them. This leaves room for exploration but without the frustration of having to guess/miss the exact spot when an action can be done.
Darken
do you guys realize that you are in an amateur community where there is no financial gain to be had if you do it by the book?
I wonder this sometimes myself. I don't see my projects as having a NEED to punch the status quo, but I also have no fear in doing so (and *gasp*, I have one of the most-downloaded games on the site, how does it work).
too many of you rely on this supposed LOGICAL DESIGN when it's all just square enix bullshit. if i wanted a super quality game i would probably stop digging through RM games in general.
1) SE created TWEWY and Dissidia, and FF Type-0 looks pretty damn cool/new, and really has been pushing boundries/breaking logical design its entire lifetime. This is why people get so up-in-arms about it, because, say, the FF series doesn't follow a formula. Lovers and haters abound!
2) Despite the unwarranted accusation, I get your point entirely and agree with it, although I've started moving toward attempting to make high-quality projects myself (note: I have not released anything I would consider "high quality" yet).
Darken
3952
i meant using square enix as in example on how RM people generally mimic them, it's not attacking the company's track record but rather the obsessive fanboyism people get caught up in. I mean it's normal i guess IT IS RPG MAKER, but it's weird that people think making something different or personal sacrifices quality or even thinks ultra professional quality even matters when this is what most people call a "hobby"
too many of you rely on this supposed LOGICAL DESIGN when it's all just square enix bullshit. if i wanted a super quality game i would probably stop digging through RM games in general.
There really are actually good RPG Maker games.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Darken
it's weird that people think making something different or personal sacrifices quality or even thinks ultra professional quality even matters when this is what most people call a "hobby"
If making indie games is just a way to spend time to you, then that's great for you I guess.
For me, it's what drives my life.
This is an interesting debate. While I have nothing to offer to the table, my game will give the option of having some helpful interactive tips pop-up along the way, as well as arrows directing to where you can enter another room and where you can jump off from one platform to another/climb a hidden rope akin to the way Final Fantasy VII did it.
Again, this will be purely optional, which you can configure before you begin a new game.
Again, this will be purely optional, which you can configure before you begin a new game.
author=LockeZauthor=DarkenIf making indie games is just a way to spend time to you, then that's great for you I guess.
it's weird that people think making something different or personal sacrifices quality or even thinks ultra professional quality even matters when this is what most people call a "hobby"
For me, it's what drives my life.
All the more reason to not use SE as a basis for what constitutes irreproachable rpg logic. Not saying you do personally, though.
Darken
3952
author=Max McGeetoo many of you rely on this supposed LOGICAL DESIGN when it's all just square enix bullshit. if i wanted a super quality game i would probably stop digging through RM games in general.There really are actually good RPG Maker games.
idk dude, to me the best RM games are pretty average story/gameplay/graphics/whatever wise but there are a lot of cool things in them that no big name developer would dare to do. like uh there's a certain charm to Aptos Adventures where it's obvious that it was made by a bunch of juvenile teenagers and lacks any sort of polish but there are a lot of entertaining stupid moments in it that could only happen in an amateur game.
The same could be said for TTHW, ABL, Love and War, Leo and Leah, Space Funeral etc. i guess my point is that you can't really expect ONE GUY to make the perfect game in facking RPG Maker. Might as well do something interesting, rather than molding the ultimate DQ3 clone lol. The original topic is kind of dumb since I don't really care about whether or not someone implements a "enter key" system or w/e but I guess since "sticking out" was brought up i felt i needed to lay it down on why it's important, it has nothing to do with DIFFERENT VS QUALITY but rather how being different can be the strength behind the quality of amateur games. startling concept I KNOW.
