FAITH, RELIGION, AND YOU

Posts

Awww, I was genuinely curious Halibabica!
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
author=halibabica
What happens to people who have everything handed to them in life? They get spoiled, don't they? Bratty, privileged, more than a little entitled? This is why God "lets" bad things happen. If life on earth wasn't painful, we could never appreciate the sheer bliss that heaven promises. It makes sense to me, at least.

What about, say, young children diagnosed with terminal cancer?
has the giant space teapot made its appearance yet or
author=halibabica
It's all too often asked "lol if there's a god who loves us why's he let bad things happen." My answer: God wants us to suffer. But that puts it too plainly, really. It needs some elaboration. What happens to people who have everything handed to them in life? They get spoiled, don't they? Bratty, privileged, more than a little entitled? This is why God "lets" bad things happen. If life on earth wasn't painful, we could never appreciate the sheer bliss that heaven promises. It makes sense to me, at least.

That makes sense from an human standpoint.
But an hypotetical all-knowing, all-powerful god could just have made things work differently, couldn't it? We get spoiled and entitled because of how our minds works, which it decided.
Also yeah, children with terminal cancer. Unless they are sacrificial lambs for their parents to "appreciate" the sheer bliss and don't get "entitled".

If I have to consider the existance of some "Creator", the only way it can make sense to me is if it has some kind of limitations on what he can and cannot do. Like, some meta-rules even more powerful, or some kind of a zero-sum game.
Maybe our universe is just one of many unfinished project that God wanted to upload on the divine equivalent of rmn.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
15258
from Yellow Magic
What about, say, young children diagnosed with terminal cancer?

Well, I don't think he'd hold it against them, and I can't even pretend to know how he'd handle that. I must admit that using technicalities as arguments against religion is kinda annoying. It's not the tax code, after all. We only know so much, and even what we think we 'know' we can't truly know at all.

from Cozzer
But an hypotetical all-knowing, all-powerful god could just have made things work differently, couldn't it? We get spoiled and entitled because of how our minds works, which it decided.

Yes, he could've. Maybe he decided having free will was more important. If our minds were limited in such a way that we couldn't become bratty or spoiled, we'd be just that: limited.

from Cozzer
Maybe our universe is just one of many unfinished project that God wanted to upload on the divine equivalent of rmn.

I'm glad you said this, because another of my theories is that life is just a big experiment for God; to watch and see how it plays out. This works with evolution to a degree, supposing God enabled creatures to change and adapt over time. It also explains why God wouldn't directly interfere with any earthly matters. That'd go against the purpose of the experiment.

from Cozzer
That makes sense from an human standpoint.

Were you expecting a divine standpoint? And is there a distinction between God logic and human logic? Well, besides omniscience vs. non-omniscience. I have a theory about that, too!
author=halibabica
It's all too often asked "lol if there's a god who loves us why's he let bad things happen."


author=Yellow Magic
What about, say, young children diagnosed with terminal cancer?


I actually recently wrote a paper that discusses both of those questions, I can post it here if nobody minds.
arcan
Having a signature is too mainstream. I'm not part of your system!
1866
Most theists aren't even aware that there are two types of atheism and they just lump them into the same category. Agnostic atheists are those who believe that there is likely no god, but do not claim certainty. Gnostic atheists do believe that there are definitely no gods. Most people that are agnostics already fit into the former and they just don't realize it or they fear the label. Agnostic atheism is not a belief, but a mere rejection of the evidence and because of that they do not bear the burden of proof. On the other hand, gnostic atheism is a belief and does require proof. Most theists unknowingly believe that atheists are gnostic and this is what causes many arguments when they try to explain that they don't have the burden of proof. Please learn the difference.

Another thing that bothers me is that people (both sides) will always state the argument as creationism vs evolution as if they were the only two choices. By disproving evolution you do not automatically prove your god or any god for that matter. Those are entirely separate matters. And another thing, you need to believe in a god in order to be a theist, but an atheist doesn't need evolution to be an atheist.

author=halibabica
Yes, he could've. Maybe he decided having free will was more important. If our minds were limited in such a way that we couldn't become bratty or spoiled, we'd be just that: limited.

Were you expecting a divine standpoint? And is there a distinction between God logic and human logic? Well, besides omniscience vs. non-omniscience


The point is: sure, logic dictates that free will and eternal bliss are mutually exclusive. But if God really is all-powerful, he can change logic itself. He could have given us free will AND eternal bliss.

This is the distinction by human logic and an hypotetical "divine standpoint": we have to follow the rules, he (she? it?) makes them.
We can argue that some evils are "necessary" because of how our world works, but this Creator could just have made it work differently. So, either he didn't want, or he couldn't.

That's basically the basis of my agnostic view of "if a Creator really does exist, he's not all-powerful".
treeghost
a lot better than being a wapanese kiddo
38
wait a minute... yellow magic is a muslim who likes YMO? neato

For myself, I'm a *** but I got a pretty nihilistic pov on this religion stuff. Just' don't give a fuck. :)

Also my fav. quote to all Christians:
Anything Jesus Does I Can Do Better
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
15258
from Cozzer
That's basically the basis of my agnostic view of "if a Creator really does exist, he's not all-powerful".

Actually, I agree with you! I don't think God's as all-powerful as the Bible says he is. Oh, he's capable enough to create the universe, but I think some concepts transcend a deity's ability to change. Like math. Math concepts are about as hard fact as you can get. You could reshape the universe any way you want, and it won't change the principles of math. It could change their applications, but the basics would remain the same.

So, yeah, I believe there are things God can't do, and I also believe there are things God can't know. This stems from yet another of my theories.
kentona
Your mom is a hero
20844
author=treeghost
wait a minute... yellow magic is a muslim who likes YMO? neato

For myself, I'm a *** but I got a pretty nihilistic pov on this religion stuff. Just' don't give a fuck. :)

Also my fav. quote to all Christians:
Anything Jesus Does I Can Do Better
Forget Jesus. Stars died so you can exist.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=halibabica
everything's too complicated to have just fallen together randomly

Typical fallacy of the human mind.

author=halibabica
Math concepts are about as hard fact as you can get. You could reshape the universe any way you want, and it won't change the principles of math. It could change their applications, but the basics would remain the same.

Lots of Lovecraft stories feature non-Euclidian geometry - that is, a mathematical basis to reality that creates forms and shapes in dimensions the human mind is unfamiliar with and unable to grasp. Lots of his horror comes from not just the unimaginable but the literally unknowable and incomprehensible.

On a more agnostic note, if there IS any kind of supreme being or creator etc, I FIRMLY believe the human mind is completely incapable of properly understanding or perceiving the truth around it. Any guess we could possibly make must be wrong. Sort of like non-Euclidian geometry. If you stared into the truth, you'd go insane. MAYBE THOSE MAD PROPHETS WERE ONTO SOMETHING
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
author=tpasmall
I actually recently wrote a paper that discusses both of those questions, I can post it here if nobody minds.

I'm certainly interested!

author=treeghost
wait a minute... yellow magic is a muslim who likes YMO? neato

I guess you could call me Yellow Muslim
arcan
Having a signature is too mainstream. I'm not part of your system!
1866
author=Versalia
On a more agnostic note, if there IS any kind of supreme being or creator etc, I FIRMLY believe the human mind is completely incapable of properly understanding or perceiving the truth around it.

This never made any sense to me. Some things are more complex than others, but they can always be understood if they follow the principles of logic. If you say that god doesn't follow logic then that doesn't make any sense either. Logic isn't the set of rules that comes about before reality, but rather how we define reality. So logic applies in every situation and everything that follows logic can be understood. I don't even know if logical evidence for your claim is even possible.
kentona
Your mom is a hero
20844
but the thing is god isn't part of reality, so far as I understand the hypothesis. So by that logic, we can't define a god using logic.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=kentona
but the thing is god isn't part of reality, so far as I understand the hypothesis. So by that logic, we can't define a god using logic.


Exactly. If it exists, which it more than likely doesn't, it's inexplicable.

Logic is only how we define things, as you said. In that sense, the "truth" is only how we perceive it to be. The truth is above the human understanding of logic. ;)
arcan
Having a signature is too mainstream. I'm not part of your system!
1866
author=kentona
but the thing is god isn't part of reality, so far as I understand the hypothesis. So by that logic, we can't define a god using logic.

Meh, this is just a vague statement to explain away a very important question. What does this even mean? As far as I'm concerned, if god interacts with reality then he is part of reality.
author=tpasmall
author=halibabica
It's all too often asked "lol if there's a god who loves us why's he let bad things happen."
author=Yellow Magic
What about, say, young children diagnosed with terminal cancer?


I actually recently wrote a paper that discusses both of those questions, I can post it here if nobody minds.

Please do!
kentona
Your mom is a hero
20844
author=arcan
author=kentona
but the thing is god isn't part of reality, so far as I understand the hypothesis. So by that logic, we can't define a god using logic.
Meh, this is just a vague statement to explain away a very important question. What does this even mean? As far as I'm concerned, if god interacts with reality then he is part of reality.
There is no evidence of that. And you said ". Logic isn't the set of rules that comes about before reality, but rather how we define reality." All evidence suggests that, if a god were to exist, it isn't part of reality. So, by your statement, you can't use logic to define that god.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
in before "God can't be explained by logic anyway"