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LOVE IN GAMES
Posts
Mockingbird
21
Mockingbird
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CloseI was thinking today about the role love plays in video games. Most of the games I've played involve some sort of side- if not main quest arc involving two characters falling in love. But is it actually necessary? I think that it can be a powerful tool to evoke emotion in the player, but only if it's executed well.
Another thing I thought about was this:
Same-sex love stories.
I have NEVER seen this in a game, but I don't understand why not. What are your thoughts on this appearing in games?
Another thing I thought about was this:
Same-sex love stories.
I have NEVER seen this in a game, but I don't understand why not. What are your thoughts on this appearing in games?
It really depends on how the love story is thought out. If it's a generic love story, then the player will probably go, "Been there, done that!". Add a twist to it where it ends in heart break where the love wasn't there to begin with and you will get something out of the player.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Some characters are loners and having them build up strong enough emotional connections with other characters to qualify as love would drastically change the type of character you're trying to create. Unless you're intentionally trying to create a dynamic character who changes from a solitary warrior to an emotionally driven lover over the course of the story (e.g. Squall, Celes), you probably don't want to add any romance in these characters' lives, except perhaps romantic advances that they turn down and walk away from.
Other characters my be driven by a strong desire to protect others or are outcasts fighting to be accepted - I feel like these are great characters to add love stories to because it enhances the characterization you're already trying to create.
Other characters my be driven by a strong desire to protect others or are outcasts fighting to be accepted - I feel like these are great characters to add love stories to because it enhances the characterization you're already trying to create.
Most rpgs have main characters with a love interest (usually the healer). Too bad they never pursue it throughout the game, maybe because they're pussies I dunno, but it never actually "gets there", ya know?
Annoying, I wanna see my character get laid- fuck I'm slaying inter-dimensional demon shits bent on destroying the universe and I'm not gonna get laid? Fuck that.
Annoying, I wanna see my character get laid- fuck I'm slaying inter-dimensional demon shits bent on destroying the universe and I'm not gonna get laid? Fuck that.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
There is a pretty big difference between a love story and a sex story. One of them involves forming emotional bonds and the other involves having sex.
I know at one point I was exasperated by what looked like the puritanism of amateur rpgs, litterally sexless, this said the very cartoonish design lends itslf to that (and, but there I may be wrong, it seems like a lot of commercial video games are pretty much devoid of love/sex stories, unlike any book or movie, but I haven't played much), also, I imagine you want to keep a clear line between video games and porn...? Still.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Sex exists in fiction for two basic reasons:
1) porn
2) to increase the MPAA/ESRB rating to R(movies) or M(games), because it is proven that adults are more likely to watch a movie or play a game if it has these ratings than if it is rated PG-13 or T, all other things being equal.
Romance is a completely different matter. Love can sometimes result in sex if certain other conditions are also met (cultural conditioning to marry for love, physical attraction), but as far as I'm concerned there's no need to show the sex except for the above two reasons. Since those are pretty much the only two emotions it will evoke from me.
1) porn
2) to increase the MPAA/ESRB rating to R(movies) or M(games), because it is proven that adults are more likely to watch a movie or play a game if it has these ratings than if it is rated PG-13 or T, all other things being equal.
Romance is a completely different matter. Love can sometimes result in sex if certain other conditions are also met (cultural conditioning to marry for love, physical attraction), but as far as I'm concerned there's no need to show the sex except for the above two reasons. Since those are pretty much the only two emotions it will evoke from me.
Crystalgate
694
There are however a lot of ways to let the player know two people are sleeping with each other without actually showing any kind of nudity. That doesn't seem to be done often though.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
True enough.
A big part of it is probably that most video games are essentially action stories. There is some drama and some comedy but at their heart they are about winning some battle. That's where the climax of the story is.
There's a big difference between an action story where the hero gets the girl, and a romance story where the protagonists have to fight. I don't think it's impossible to make a game that is the latter. You'd need the relationships to feature heavily into the gameplay, instead of just being cutscenes plus the occasional dialogue choice. I think you'd probably want the final "conflict" of the game to be a romantic conflict rather than a literal battle (or for it to be both at once). This probably means the romance is going to be unrequited until the end of the game though, since the sloppy make-out session under the sunset is typically what we consider the climax in a romance story.
A big part of it is probably that most video games are essentially action stories. There is some drama and some comedy but at their heart they are about winning some battle. That's where the climax of the story is.
There's a big difference between an action story where the hero gets the girl, and a romance story where the protagonists have to fight. I don't think it's impossible to make a game that is the latter. You'd need the relationships to feature heavily into the gameplay, instead of just being cutscenes plus the occasional dialogue choice. I think you'd probably want the final "conflict" of the game to be a romantic conflict rather than a literal battle (or for it to be both at once). This probably means the romance is going to be unrequited until the end of the game though, since the sloppy make-out session under the sunset is typically what we consider the climax in a romance story.
Dyhalto
7536
author=Despite
Most rpgs have main characters with a love interest (usually the healer). Too bad they never pursue it throughout the game, maybe because they're pussies I dunno, but it never actually "gets there", ya know?
Annoying, I wanna see my character get laid- fuck I'm slaying inter-dimensional demon shits bent on destroying the universe and I'm not gonna get laid? Fuck that.
Yeah, I wanted to see Cless boink Mint too.
Put down that sword and raise the other one, you dink.
Same-sex relationships may add an interesting appeal to storylines in games, and in fact it's already been done in games like Mass Effect 3 or .hack//GU Reminisce (Homosexual relationship and a transvestite/possibly transgender character. Also, in Persona 4, there was a whole episode that dealt with one character questioning his sexuality.
It's not always so obvious, but it's there. I think the reluctance to include it sometimes is due to the possible reactions from consumers that could come from it.
I, for one, welcome it. Of course it doesn't have to appear every single time, nor does it have to be a requirement, but at the same time, it could add a touch of realism and diversity to a project.
It's not always so obvious, but it's there. I think the reluctance to include it sometimes is due to the possible reactions from consumers that could come from it.
I, for one, welcome it. Of course it doesn't have to appear every single time, nor does it have to be a requirement, but at the same time, it could add a touch of realism and diversity to a project.
Back then, Love = ideal friendships with no strings attached. The I will die for you kind. (Philosophy class~)
Now it seems like love is synonymous to sex, which it isn't supposed to be.
That or I might be too old timey when it comes to my taste in romance <_<;
Now it seems like love is synonymous to sex, which it isn't supposed to be.
That or I might be too old timey when it comes to my taste in romance <_<;
author=Archeia_Nessiah
Back then, Love = ideal friendships with no strings attached. The I will die for you kind. (Philosophy class~)
Now it seems like love is synonymous to sex, which it isn't supposed to be.
That or I might be too old timey when it comes to my taste in romance <_<;
I agree with you, though at the same time, I don't mind the idea of some sex associated with romance ;)
At the same time, what bugs me is how people interpret sex elements in a story as sex = porn/smut.
Shinan
4314
Love is something often attempted but it is fairly rarely good. There's just something in it that so very often just falls very flat. However I still think that even bad romance often succeeds in its goals.
I mean if you play a choose-your-love-interest game it's sort of someone you're pursuing in your roleplaying and although the writing might not be the greatest in some of those moments you're attached the your love interest because you chose it yourself.
Like. Take the simplest of things. In the original Harvest Moon. I arbitarily picked a girl and then it was all flowers and chocolate and being friendly and there was a certain kind of attachment there. If that game had turned into an adventure RPG all of a sudden where that girl had been kidnapped or something you'd be damned sure that I'd go and turn the world upside down to get her back.
In games where you're more watching the story unfold I think there's more of a "cheering" factor going on while playing. Maybe I want character x and character y to get together and the game so obviously manipulates me into thinking they're totally right for each other. Much like almost any romantic movie out there. Of course sometimes the writing is so bad you just wish one of them would die already, but in a linear game that's sort of a risk you have to take.
What I'd like is a game where the infatuation period is over and maybe have main characters already be in a relationship when a game starts. And not just so the love interest can be kidnapped but play on a relationship dynamic during the game actual. I'm sure it's been done in games and if I were to guess it's probably more common with side characters. But it could make for a very fun dynamic where the adventuring duo is husband and wife who love each other dearly but are no longer "in love" so much.
But in the end the fact that the player is in control of so much in a game and especially in RPGs player choice is so important that forcing love down the player's throat might just be annoying. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any room for a male-female friendship that doesn't involve sex and/or love.
I mean if you play a choose-your-love-interest game it's sort of someone you're pursuing in your roleplaying and although the writing might not be the greatest in some of those moments you're attached the your love interest because you chose it yourself.
Like. Take the simplest of things. In the original Harvest Moon. I arbitarily picked a girl and then it was all flowers and chocolate and being friendly and there was a certain kind of attachment there. If that game had turned into an adventure RPG all of a sudden where that girl had been kidnapped or something you'd be damned sure that I'd go and turn the world upside down to get her back.
In games where you're more watching the story unfold I think there's more of a "cheering" factor going on while playing. Maybe I want character x and character y to get together and the game so obviously manipulates me into thinking they're totally right for each other. Much like almost any romantic movie out there. Of course sometimes the writing is so bad you just wish one of them would die already, but in a linear game that's sort of a risk you have to take.
What I'd like is a game where the infatuation period is over and maybe have main characters already be in a relationship when a game starts. And not just so the love interest can be kidnapped but play on a relationship dynamic during the game actual. I'm sure it's been done in games and if I were to guess it's probably more common with side characters. But it could make for a very fun dynamic where the adventuring duo is husband and wife who love each other dearly but are no longer "in love" so much.
But in the end the fact that the player is in control of so much in a game and especially in RPGs player choice is so important that forcing love down the player's throat might just be annoying. Especially since there doesn't seem to be any room for a male-female friendship that doesn't involve sex and/or love.
author=LockeZ
A big part of it is probably that most video games are essentially action stories. There is some drama and some comedy but at their heart they are about winning some battle. That's where the climax of the story is.
Not true for good RPGs.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Shinan
What I'd like is a game where the infatuation period is over and maybe have main characters already be in a relationship when a game starts. And not just so the love interest can be kidnapped but play on a relationship dynamic during the game actual. I'm sure it's been done in games and if I were to guess it's probably more common with side characters. But it could make for a very fun dynamic where the adventuring duo is husband and wife who love each other dearly but are no longer "in love" so much.
Lufia 2 is one of the most interesting cases of this I've seen. The game starts out with a blatant love interest, which then turns into a love triangle. You expect the love triangle to extend through the entire game but it doesn't; halfway through the game, Tia leaves the party forever and you marry Selan, and the two of you even have a child. The story fast forwards a year and you spend the second half of the game fighting along side your waifu. Not really quite the same, but it's as close a match as I can remember.
Main characters old enough to have fallen into the comfortable stage of marriage are unusual enough on their own.
dethmetal
990
As for why there's no same-sex romances in games, it's for the same reason that the main characters of an RPG are usually young males.
Game developers, professional ones at least, are targeting their most profitable demographic - straight, young men. It's sometimes hard for a young, straight male to relate to their character when he has a love interest of the same sex.
I'm not trying to say that the typical RPG player is a so-called "homophobe" or anything, though.
Game developers, professional ones at least, are targeting their most profitable demographic - straight, young men. It's sometimes hard for a young, straight male to relate to their character when he has a love interest of the same sex.
I'm not trying to say that the typical RPG player is a so-called "homophobe" or anything, though.
UPRC
5516
I like the love story in my game. Character A falls for Character B, but Character B is totally oblivious to it and doesn't share the same feelings at all... So it's kind of a tragic one way love, but I treat it in a light hearted way, so you never feel bad for Character A (though I haven't ruled out the possibility of feeling bad for them later on).
author=UPRC
I like the love story in my game. Character A falls for Character B, but Character B is totally oblivious to it and doesn't share the same feelings at all... So it's kind of a tragic one way love, but I treat it in a light hearted way, so you never feel bad for Character A (though I haven't ruled out the possibility of feeling bad for them later on).
sexy
Love stories in games make me feel even more involved, like some outside force watching the people in that world, almost like a god or some invisible ghost. Love Story = a lot better story, depending on how well it's played. I personally think the FF8 love thing was really... odd. Mostly the (emo)tional side really didn't really capture me. (Plus Squall and Rinoa are characters I don't even like at all)
emmych
817
I gotta go back up and talk about the sex thing, particularly this piece:
I also think sex is a good way to introduce interesting dynamics to character relationships. I mean, if you have two characters that sleep together over the course of the story and one character maybe has feelings for the other one, doesn't that just make it so much more tense? Or if a character loses their virginity -- that can be a pretty big deal and a potential cause for angst/self-reflection/etc. I know when I punched in my v-card, I had all these FEELINGS~ and DOUBTS~ that I had to sort through. And what about all the insecurities that relate to sex, or the power a person can have over another with it, or that beautiful thing that is a young person's sexual awakening? If those kinds of feelings relate to the main narrative, why not explore them? Like, man, if I was gonna do a coming of age story, I would be more inclined to have a character in a purely sexual relationship than a romantic one, because I feel like the former has way more room for growth.
Truth is, society is waaaay too squeamish about anything sexual, so it gets bumped down to this dirty thing that no one ever talks about and everyone is supposed to be ashamed of. I don't think we should be ashamed of it -- it's part of what makes us human, and the experience of sex and everything that relates to it is a fascinating thing to explore and think about.
TL;DR SEX CAN BE MORE THAN PORN AND CHARACTERS SHOULD HAVE MORE SEXUAL EXPERIENCES BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS HAVE SEXUAL EXPERIENCES AND THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY A BAD THING AND CAN SERVE TO FURTHER A PLOT ON A HIGHER LEVEL THAN JUST HELPING THE CONSUMER GET OFF
As far as legit love goes, I'm definitely past the part of my life where teenage puppy love does anything for me. If honest to goodness romance is gonna happen, I want it to be realistic, and I want it to make me feel something. I want to see the characters involved grow and change and make me honestly believe they're in love. I want there to be honest stakes involved, I want to see the relationship be renegotiated, I want to see the give and take involved.
Like, if it's gonna be fairy tale love, I'd rather there be no love story at all. That kind of thing makes me roll my eyes so hardcore now. XD
EDIT: Oh, right, and as for same sex love stories:
EVERYONE GET MORE OF TEH GAY IN YOUR GAM
RPGs need more of teh gay because queer relationships have different dynamics than heterosexual ones and it would be nice to see something different go on. Also we need more queer representation, but I have ranted about this before.
author=LockeZI will not deny that these are two common reasons for sex being in fiction, but maaaan you can include sex for way more reasons than that! It's a human (er, animal) experience; sex, even without love, is a beautiful, fascinating thing. I'm not saying have GRATUITOUS SEX SCENES ALL THE TIME BLAARRGGHH~~~~ but I do think it makes sense to recognize that, when you have a bunch of adults hanging out and adventuring, chances are they will probably be sexual beings (barring those that are asexual) and will have urges and attractions and what have you that may or may not be acted upon.
Sex exists in fiction for two basic reasons:
1) porn
2) to increase the MPAA/ESRB rating to R(movies) or M(games), because it is proven that adults are more likely to watch a movie or play a game if it has these ratings than if it is rated PG-13 or T, all other things being equal.
I also think sex is a good way to introduce interesting dynamics to character relationships. I mean, if you have two characters that sleep together over the course of the story and one character maybe has feelings for the other one, doesn't that just make it so much more tense? Or if a character loses their virginity -- that can be a pretty big deal and a potential cause for angst/self-reflection/etc. I know when I punched in my v-card, I had all these FEELINGS~ and DOUBTS~ that I had to sort through. And what about all the insecurities that relate to sex, or the power a person can have over another with it, or that beautiful thing that is a young person's sexual awakening? If those kinds of feelings relate to the main narrative, why not explore them? Like, man, if I was gonna do a coming of age story, I would be more inclined to have a character in a purely sexual relationship than a romantic one, because I feel like the former has way more room for growth.
Truth is, society is waaaay too squeamish about anything sexual, so it gets bumped down to this dirty thing that no one ever talks about and everyone is supposed to be ashamed of. I don't think we should be ashamed of it -- it's part of what makes us human, and the experience of sex and everything that relates to it is a fascinating thing to explore and think about.
TL;DR SEX CAN BE MORE THAN PORN AND CHARACTERS SHOULD HAVE MORE SEXUAL EXPERIENCES BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS HAVE SEXUAL EXPERIENCES AND THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY A BAD THING AND CAN SERVE TO FURTHER A PLOT ON A HIGHER LEVEL THAN JUST HELPING THE CONSUMER GET OFF
As far as legit love goes, I'm definitely past the part of my life where teenage puppy love does anything for me. If honest to goodness romance is gonna happen, I want it to be realistic, and I want it to make me feel something. I want to see the characters involved grow and change and make me honestly believe they're in love. I want there to be honest stakes involved, I want to see the relationship be renegotiated, I want to see the give and take involved.
Like, if it's gonna be fairy tale love, I'd rather there be no love story at all. That kind of thing makes me roll my eyes so hardcore now. XD
EDIT: Oh, right, and as for same sex love stories:
EVERYONE GET MORE OF TEH GAY IN YOUR GAM
RPGs need more of teh gay because queer relationships have different dynamics than heterosexual ones and it would be nice to see something different go on. Also we need more queer representation, but I have ranted about this before.
