POLYMORPHOUS PERVERSITY (18+ NWS)

Not really worst as Violated Heroine.

Wow, crappy page king. :p

In regards to the whole tranny debate earlier, I just don't see how certain groups and stereotypes should be off limits when it comes to comedic or satirical works. Even my LIGHT COMEDY game pokes fun at fatties, trannies, prostitutes, and pervs (actually, this is all pretty typical in most comedic anime series). We need "chill pills" (possibly to be put in our achievement folders) on RMN to be rewarded to those who clearly need to take one.

You're right; we do live in a world where people get killed just because they're transgendered. We also live in a world where people get killed just because they're black, just because they're gay, and any number of other prejudices that really should have died out decades ago.

And that's sad, it really is. But nobody in their right mind takes their cues on how to act from semi-comedic RPG Maker games, so even if Calunio had gone out of his way to ensure he portrayed transgender characters realistically (which would have been ridiculous because this game is about as far from realistic as it's possible to get), humanity at large wouldn't suddenly have had an epiphany and realised it's been giving transgenders a difficult time.

I appreciate the point people are making about this, but I honestly don't understand the rationale here. Yes, there are transgender people in this game who "trick" you and use you for sex. There are also submissive girls who use you for sex, men who use you for sex, women who use you for sex, a fat chick who uses you for sex, twins who try to trick you into contracting an STD, a vampire who uses you for sex, a rich guy who uses you for sex, a minotaur who uses you for sex, angels who use you for sex. Everyone and his dog (literally) are after sex in this game.

Okay, I admit that transgenders aren't portrayed in the most sympathetic of lights, but they are neither being treated any more fairly nor any more harshly than any other demographic.

It's almost as if Calunio just viewed transgenders as another set of people and didn't think anything of treating them the same as everyone else...

Sorry, I know I mentioned that the game wasn't going to cause radical change or anything but I wasn't implying that anyone specifically said otherwise, it was just part of my point.

Put it this way. If the transgenders in Polymorphous Perversity had been portrayed in a different way...if, say, the protagonist had genuine feelings for a transgender character, they treated sex as something special or were otherwise characterised, they would have been completely different from every other stereotype the game contained. That would actually have made them stand out MORE, and appeared to be giving them preferential treatment just because they're transgender. Affording privileges to a minority just because it's a minority can be almost as damaging as persecuting them. It's a token effort unless it was made specifically with the intention of improving the reception of said minority.

I'm not trying to belittle the suffering that the community has had to endure, nor am I condoning it and I dearly wish that one day soon it will be a thing of the past. However, can you honestly say with conviction that the trials and suffering of the transgendered are more important than every other minority that was portrayed in the game to the exclusion of all else? Can you sit there with a straight face and tell me that submissives, gay men and sadomasochists don't deserve the same respect?

It's not a simple matter of making every persecuted minority in the game look good, because that goes against the very point the narrative of the game was trying to make in the first place.

I know it's not black and white, but I disagree with your assessment of the representation:

The first transsexual you meet in the game is the "Tranny" (okay I will concede that this could have been more tastefully done) who will trick you into having sex. However, we have to keep in mind that this is localised to an area of the game where the antagonist is a minotaur who is kidnapping people and essentially screwing them crazy, so this behaviour is not limited to the transgenders.

The second is Brooke, who is an interesting case. Brooke didn't have to be transgender; ce could just as easily have been a woman or a man or something completely different. Brooke does not trick or force you into having sex; you get the choice to either have sex or pay cer. Okay, yeah, that's not much better, but at least it's a progression.

The main one I want to bring to your attention is Gino/Gina. At the beginning of the game when you meet Gino he's male. If you read James Tonguelash's book you can read about the experiment to transition him to a full female, and if you keep talking to Gino throughout the game you'll also hear his thoughts and feelings on it. As this was a forced transition and arguably not what Gino wanted, I'm not sure how well this functions as a commentary on the struggles of transgenders, but it's another portrayal.

The final example is the Archangel, who actually switches between genders during battle. Again, not a perfect portrayal but an example that the ones at Maze Mt West were not the only types in the game.

Edit: As an aside, I think having dominant women in there somewhere would have been a good idea. As for post-operation transmen/women...maybe there were some. If it's post-op, and they didn't specifically mention that (and why should they? It arguably never needed to be said because it doesn't change who they are) how would the protagonist have known otherwise?

I think it was clear enough with Brooke. You can tell from the charset ce has a penis, it's more than obvious if you get into battle, and she asks you to "give her your ass" so she's either transgender or has a strapon. :P

I probably made the Gino/Gina thread sound worse than it is, but without you seeing it yourself I'm not sure how else to explain it. :P

The thing about the post-op point is that had there been anyone who mentioned it, it could easily have been taken as Calunio essentially going "Hey look, I am sensitive to the culture of the day! One of my NPCs made a reference to post-op transsexuals which obviously means I am sensitive and considerate!". My take on it is that it really doesn't matter what you are, who you are, where you come from, what you identify as etc. and my wish is that someday everyone will just see their fellow humans as just that. So personally I don't think it needed to be explicitly said; the player is free to imagine that some of the characters may be post-op transgender, but it isn't beaten into your skull with a brick, nor is the subject completely ignored.

I don't really think we're going to get anything else out of this topic that we haven't already said, but I thank you for the discussion and hope that I didn't say anything to offend you.

My bad regarding Brooke. I remember her now. If my memory serve, she acts as a punishment when you made a mistake in an arrow puzzle. Still, doesn't really help the game's case :(

Regarding people will take Calunio the wrong way, then that's their problem. The objective result would be the game show that there are various kinds of trangender people. They are not defined by just being transgender.

Ideally, it should be like what you said that people are taken for who they are. However, the reason why it should be stated is because currently they are being oppressed. For people who don't accept or don't know about transgender, then to them transgender don't exist or would never be one of the options when they think of the characters they see.

Again, while there are many ways to do this and ruin the games, there are also ways to do this WITHOUT ruining the game. It's the same as game mechanic really. There are many ways to fail, and there are many ways to make it work. Why choose the one that fail?

Of course, whether you agree with the comments or not is entirely up to you. I just hope that I answered your question about where do these comments come from and what's the rationale behind it. :)

author=sbester

author=hima
Your comment shows that you don't understand why this is a problem,

No, I get it. I just don't care. People will always be afraid of/hate/do bad things to those who are different than they are, and I believe one of the best ways to move society into a mode of acceptance is for us to be able to make fun of ourselves and our differences, rather than raising a big stink about it every time we feel offended and causing a bigger rift between the opposing sides with an overly defensive attitude. Kind of like what you've been experiencing in this thread.

Some people just can't take a joke, and that is where the controversy is born.

Umm, you don't. This is not about being offended. This is about 'harmful'. There's a difference.

Example :
1.) Someone made a game featuring a character wearing glasses. He then said that he only wear glasses to pretend that he's smart, just like other people who wear glasses.
- Someone might find this offensive and say "I wear them because I have to!". But this is not 'harmful' People who wear glasses are not being oppressed. Society to they treat people who wear glasses as equal as people who don't.

2.) A game that full with sexual predator transgender and surprise dick.
- Someone might not find this offensive and think it's funny. There might be a transgender that might not find this offensive. There might be someone who find this offensive. But it doesn't matter. What matter is this is harmful to the image of transgender. Transgender as sexual predator has been done again and again, and it builds up. This is not what they need when they are want acceptance and be treated equally.

I agree. Too bad for a game with a theme with so much potential though :/ I thought the battle system was creative, though it could use some tweaks.

author=Hima
But that shouldn't invalidate how people feel or think that the game doesn't help minority and contribute to oppression.

Yes and no. I firmly believe that anyone should be able to criticize anything they want, for whatever they want, and however they want. (Bonus points if it's done in a sensible way) But always with a good pair of feet set on the earth, unless they want to throw out the window their own argument... Saying that a game should do this or that to accurately portray a group of people is pretty good advice actually. But going all the way as to say a game is helping forward the kind of ideas that could lead to criminal behavior is too much. WAY too much.

I understand the concern. We're are content creators and it should be our responsibility to put good content out. And even if you choose to do some over-the-top, dark-humor, parody thingy (Which is valid too) you should at least expect that some people won't be too happy with it and are entitled to express their opinions just as much as anyone... But when you start pointing fingers. Who can be safe? Even silly games like Angry Birds could be guilt-tripped into oblivion. "Why can they be Happy Birds? Why can't they solve their differences with the pigs trough non-violent behavior? This games just teaches kids that is Ok to vandalize other people's properties." Sounds too ridiculous? Well, I'm sure there's some cynic out there too happy making claims just like that one or worse, and a hundred more people agreeing with them.

Don't be ridiculous, comparing someone being offended by Angry Birds or Mario Teaches Typing, and someone being offended by a game in which all transexual's are being degraded is just...yeah, ridiculous. In the end, Calunio is promoting ideas that the transgender community can be lumped together (they have an entire dungeon devoted to them), dehumanising them. This is harmful and upsetting, no matter how much anyone sees it as 'a joke.' It might seem like a small thing to you, but for many it's damaging to their image.

While you can laugh it off and say no big deal (I think you have to be lacking in empathy to not appreciate how much these things can affect how a minority is treated) it's still that extra degradation out there which is very much not needed, never mind defended.