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A RATHER IMPORTANT QUESTION: TO SWITCH OR NOT TO SWITCH?
Posts
Xenomic
1752
Xenomic
View playlists
CloseSo, now I'm wondering what everyone has to say on this. Now...I've been working with RPG Maker 2k3 for 3 1/2 years now. Keep this in mind, that I've been working pretty much every day for most of these (except for my big breaks between, which lasts somewhere between 3-6 months sometimes). Now, would it be wise to switch over to XP or VX, just because some people don't like the graphics at all of 2k3, when you've been working on a game for 3 1/2 years in another maker that you cannot port over (I'm pretty sure you can't just port them over anyways).
The reason I ask is because I am seriously considering whether or not I should keep working on my own game at this point in time. Maybe it has something to do with this argument I've been having over someplace else, and well...I'm not sure right now on what to do. I'd rather not have to spend 3 1/2 more years learning another maker and redoing everything I've done (if not longer) because of some people not liking the game (I've been trying to work on improving it for the past year now, trying to make it more enjoyable and fun for the player. There's still quite a few things to do, but I've been trying : / ). I honestly don't know...so I need opinions from you guys : /
The reason I ask is because I am seriously considering whether or not I should keep working on my own game at this point in time. Maybe it has something to do with this argument I've been having over someplace else, and well...I'm not sure right now on what to do. I'd rather not have to spend 3 1/2 more years learning another maker and redoing everything I've done (if not longer) because of some people not liking the game (I've been trying to work on improving it for the past year now, trying to make it more enjoyable and fun for the player. There's still quite a few things to do, but I've been trying : / ). I honestly don't know...so I need opinions from you guys : /
Billwilliams
1159
Little confused here. I was always under the impression that the main reason to stick with 2k3 was the graphics. There's a huge variety of resources that can be found for that maker and some of us fatbeards actually like the SNES era graphics.
Anyway my thoughts are finish your 2k3 game. Just do little small projects on the side with the newer makers to get familiar with them so that once you finish your current game you can shift cleanly to another maker for your next big project.
Anyway my thoughts are finish your 2k3 game. Just do little small projects on the side with the newer makers to get familiar with them so that once you finish your current game you can shift cleanly to another maker for your next big project.
Xenomic
1752
No Kentona, in fact I'm only 50% done with the game. That's the thing...I have a big story that I want to bring out to the world, and I have every intention of doing so but...I just don't know right now.
Dyhalto
7536
It isn't a piddly 2k(3) vs XP/VX debate that's derailing your confidence, is it? Opinions are like assholes; everyone's got one. Just finish your current project.
If you want to learn a new maker, do it with a new project. Finishing a project is a rare achievement you should attain.
If you want to learn a new maker, do it with a new project. Finishing a project is a rare achievement you should attain.
Xenomic
1752
I think I'll just post the thread(s). Yes, thread(s), because one got sagebombed to death.
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/534001.html (No.535005 is where it starts, in case you're wondering)
This continues into the new thread:
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/535081.html
The person is trying to get me to move to XP/VX it seems like, but I don't know if it's only that or not. It's really hard for me to decipher from the thread (I'm not the best at telling what others are thinking at all).
Like, again, I know my game isn't the best game in the world. Heck, I know that my mapping isn't that good, some graphics aren't that good, etc. But really now...
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/534001.html (No.535005 is where it starts, in case you're wondering)
This continues into the new thread:
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/535081.html
The person is trying to get me to move to XP/VX it seems like, but I don't know if it's only that or not. It's really hard for me to decipher from the thread (I'm not the best at telling what others are thinking at all).
Like, again, I know my game isn't the best game in the world. Heck, I know that my mapping isn't that good, some graphics aren't that good, etc. But really now...
Dyhalto
7536
Okay, having looked into it, your problem is way beyond mere maker choice. Throw your worries over 2k3 vs XP/VX out the window. They're just Nameless Fairy's opinion and are not worth considering.
It sounds like your game is genuinely flawed to the point of being unenjoyable. I read Marrend's review of the demo and it seems to confirm Nameless Fairy's points, albeit politely and not without hope for improvement. But if your project is as far gone as you say it is, it may actually benefit from a clean start, and from a you with a much more focused direction on the qualities that make a game good. Saying you're in it for the story is no excuse. You're making a game, not writing a fanfic. Begin with the foundations of a good game, then insert your story.
Remember that quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.
And don't say anything about "wasting 3.5 years" around me. I wasted 10 years shying away from RM communities.
It sounds like your game is genuinely flawed to the point of being unenjoyable. I read Marrend's review of the demo and it seems to confirm Nameless Fairy's points, albeit politely and not without hope for improvement. But if your project is as far gone as you say it is, it may actually benefit from a clean start, and from a you with a much more focused direction on the qualities that make a game good. Saying you're in it for the story is no excuse. You're making a game, not writing a fanfic. Begin with the foundations of a good game, then insert your story.
Remember that quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.
And don't say anything about "wasting 3.5 years" around me. I wasted 10 years shying away from RM communities.
Xenomic
1752
Well, I have said that I've been working on updating and fixing what problems it has had for the past year too. Dunno if that's any merit or anything...it seems to mostly be the beginning of the game that's the cause of the issue (Marrend did only get to the second dungeon after all before quitting). I figured if I work out the kinks of what's wrong in the start of the game, maybe it'll start flowing better with itself.
Yes, I did say that I'm in it for the story, but I THINK (don't quote me on this) I did say that I'm also trying to make it fun and enjoyable for others. Again, it may be just the beginning parts that are the issues (which if it's only those 5 dungeons, then I can fix those. It'll take time, but I can do so). If it's more than JUST those, then well...that's an entirely different beast on its own and that'll have to be done through constant testing and whatnot as I've been doing methinks.
Am I trying to avoid a fresh start? Maybe, maybe not. Though if I DID start fresh, I wouldn't know what to go with since I'm so used to 2k3 and all that @_@;
Yes, I did say that I'm in it for the story, but I THINK (don't quote me on this) I did say that I'm also trying to make it fun and enjoyable for others. Again, it may be just the beginning parts that are the issues (which if it's only those 5 dungeons, then I can fix those. It'll take time, but I can do so). If it's more than JUST those, then well...that's an entirely different beast on its own and that'll have to be done through constant testing and whatnot as I've been doing methinks.
Am I trying to avoid a fresh start? Maybe, maybe not. Though if I DID start fresh, I wouldn't know what to go with since I'm so used to 2k3 and all that @_@;
Neverm0re
341
Ok, I have a project in the works in 2k3 (Which I've been working in for quite some time) and I just recently got VX ACE, which I've started a side-project in. I don't plan on forsaking one for the other, since both have their merits and reasons to be used, but I am for sure going to finish my original project first.
I have terrible hobby ADD, where I will be working frantically one one thing before suddenly getting an idea for another game that I NEED to work on. Having two different engines to work in expands the possibilities of what you can do, and honestly they aren't THAT different. Switching over to ACE hasn't been jarring at all, and the minor differences in the event commands is easy to get used to.
I have terrible hobby ADD, where I will be working frantically one one thing before suddenly getting an idea for another game that I NEED to work on. Having two different engines to work in expands the possibilities of what you can do, and honestly they aren't THAT different. Switching over to ACE hasn't been jarring at all, and the minor differences in the event commands is easy to get used to.
Xenomic
1752
Alright, let's say I do start from scratch. Let's say I completely stop working on this current game and start anew with 2k3 or VX/XP whatever. Let's say that I focus on one thing and one thing only, whether it be characters, gameplay, monsters, mapping, story, etc. What would you say to start with?
I'm willing to listen right now on this matter, since I will admit that I have not been myself over the past 5 years (let's just say, various events tend to lead to degrades such as this).
I'm willing to listen right now on this matter, since I will admit that I have not been myself over the past 5 years (let's just say, various events tend to lead to degrades such as this).
Xenomic
1752
Actually, if I may ask, is there even a download for VX Ace/VX/XP? I don't have money to buy it (obviously I didn't buy 2k3 sadly), but I think I WOULD like to try them (without those blasted trial periods. That probably didn't help me any when I messed with them ages ago...).
I've been working on the same game concept since 2001. Until you've wasted 11 years of your life on something with little to no tangible product to show for it I've got you beat. :P
A bit of advice from experience: don't think "I will start with X and then do Y and then Z and then the rest!" because it doesn't really work. If you focus on one specific thing until it's done you'll get bored, and boredom is like poison to fledgling RPGs. Do what you feel comfortable with, but try to get at least a little bit done every day.
Trihan, take your own advice, you slacking bastard.
There are downloads for all of the makers, but obviously being illegal I can't give you links.
A bit of advice from experience: don't think "I will start with X and then do Y and then Z and then the rest!" because it doesn't really work. If you focus on one specific thing until it's done you'll get bored, and boredom is like poison to fledgling RPGs. Do what you feel comfortable with, but try to get at least a little bit done every day.
Trihan, take your own advice, you slacking bastard.
There are downloads for all of the makers, but obviously being illegal I can't give you links.
Raoul589
709
I've never even used the pre-XP makers, but I can say with all sincerity that I love the old graphics. People get just as much hate for making games in VX, trust me. I prefer the RPGM2K graphics and the only reason I didn't use RPGM2K for my games is that it's not great for scripting.
As for being 50% of the way through your game, and considering starting over, I'm going to give you my absolute most honest advice.
Take a week off. Stop thinking about the game for a while. After that, sit down. Take out a pen and paper. Write down what it is that you like about your game. Write down what it is that you hope to achieve with your game. Take a chainsaw to anything else in the game. Reduce its scope. Reduce, reduce, reduce. Focus on what you care most about. 100% of people would rather play a short, deep game than a long, crappy one*. If you find that after you have put away your chainsaw, there is almost nothing left, that's OK. It's even OK to start over if necessary. If you leave only the things in that are good, you will have a shorter, denser, better game. Plan a strategy for how you are going to finish the game in the next 6 months. If you expect to work on it for another 3.5 years you almost certainly will not finish, and if you don't finish, all your work is wasted.
If you are 3.5 years into your game and you think you are only halfway through, that means you are going to be spending another 3.5 years on the game. That's 5% of your life. You only have the opportunity to spend 5% of your life 20 times. Think about that.
Don't switch makers. Your choice of maker is not the issue here.
*(I forget who said this, it's a quotation)
As for being 50% of the way through your game, and considering starting over, I'm going to give you my absolute most honest advice.
Take a week off. Stop thinking about the game for a while. After that, sit down. Take out a pen and paper. Write down what it is that you like about your game. Write down what it is that you hope to achieve with your game. Take a chainsaw to anything else in the game. Reduce its scope. Reduce, reduce, reduce. Focus on what you care most about. 100% of people would rather play a short, deep game than a long, crappy one*. If you find that after you have put away your chainsaw, there is almost nothing left, that's OK. It's even OK to start over if necessary. If you leave only the things in that are good, you will have a shorter, denser, better game. Plan a strategy for how you are going to finish the game in the next 6 months. If you expect to work on it for another 3.5 years you almost certainly will not finish, and if you don't finish, all your work is wasted.
If you are 3.5 years into your game and you think you are only halfway through, that means you are going to be spending another 3.5 years on the game. That's 5% of your life. You only have the opportunity to spend 5% of your life 20 times. Think about that.
Don't switch makers. Your choice of maker is not the issue here.
*(I forget who said this, it's a quotation)
SnowOwl
5188
author=Trihan
I've been working on the same game concept since 2001. Until you've wasted 11 years of your life on something with little to no tangible product to show for it I've got you beat. :P
I'm not sure what competition you guys are trying to win but in my eyes you're losing it.
author=SnowOwlauthor=TrihanI'm not sure what competition you guys are trying to win but in my eyes you're losing it.
I've been working on the same game concept since 2001. Until you've wasted 11 years of your life on something with little to no tangible product to show for it I've got you beat. :P
Oh believe me, I know I'm losing it. :P
Xenomic
1752
What I've been trying to focus on, and this has been the past year alone (yes. 2 1/2 years was spent working up to the end of beta4 believe it or not) has been updating the database with new abilities and fixing all of the bugs that I have so far in the game (a lot of them somehow slipped under my radar, though some was due to me not using specific characters or getting optional characters much earlier than I expected players to).
I HAVE the entire story in my head...that's the thing. If I cut out any part of the story, then it wouldn't...FEEL right. It's already bad enough that the story is huge enough that I cannot fit it all into the game (yes, I have considered making a side game to this game just to explain the other characters' side of the story, including 2 of the main game's villains). I always seem to aim big on things like this, tis how I am I suppose.
I had planned on doing the abilities first, then going to mapping and storyline after I fixed up more beta1 stuff (beginning of the game is where most people seem to not like the game, and that's understandable since the beginning is MEANT to set expectations for the rest of the game). Yes, it's a lot of work to fix up. Is it worth it? Who knows. I just feel I can still fix the game without having to start over or go to a new maker. I would still, however, like to see the new makers just to see how they are of course. Will still be working on the game in 2k3 while trying to do that.
(Let's just say for about half a year now, I've been working on one set of abilities. If you've seen the topics and/or posts in the Whathcu workin on thread, that ability is just Weapon/Armor Bless. I am still working on that too if that says anything...this is because these abilities that I've been putting in, I've been putting in to try to give the game more of a strategic flavor to it rather than spam the same skills all day. The same reason why I'm trying to rebalance the physical damage formula).
(11 years is quite a long time I have to say...oi vey @_@;; )
Whew....that was a long winded post. If I sound stubborn at all in here, well...sorry. I've always been pretty stubborn about everything ^^;
I HAVE the entire story in my head...that's the thing. If I cut out any part of the story, then it wouldn't...FEEL right. It's already bad enough that the story is huge enough that I cannot fit it all into the game (yes, I have considered making a side game to this game just to explain the other characters' side of the story, including 2 of the main game's villains). I always seem to aim big on things like this, tis how I am I suppose.
I had planned on doing the abilities first, then going to mapping and storyline after I fixed up more beta1 stuff (beginning of the game is where most people seem to not like the game, and that's understandable since the beginning is MEANT to set expectations for the rest of the game). Yes, it's a lot of work to fix up. Is it worth it? Who knows. I just feel I can still fix the game without having to start over or go to a new maker. I would still, however, like to see the new makers just to see how they are of course. Will still be working on the game in 2k3 while trying to do that.
(Let's just say for about half a year now, I've been working on one set of abilities. If you've seen the topics and/or posts in the Whathcu workin on thread, that ability is just Weapon/Armor Bless. I am still working on that too if that says anything...this is because these abilities that I've been putting in, I've been putting in to try to give the game more of a strategic flavor to it rather than spam the same skills all day. The same reason why I'm trying to rebalance the physical damage formula).
(11 years is quite a long time I have to say...oi vey @_@;; )
Whew....that was a long winded post. If I sound stubborn at all in here, well...sorry. I've always been pretty stubborn about everything ^^;
My problem is that I'm a procrastinating perfectionist. I take ages to make anything, and then when I do make progress I hate what I've done, scrap it and start over. I also start again whenever a new maker comes out. :(
Xenomic
1752
I'm kinda the same way in some regards (for instance, I have redone an entire dungeon 4 separate times. Still not happy with it at all and will probably be redoing it for the 5th time soon). Much like how whenever I run into a random encounter that just doesn't seem right, I try to set it up right, or if enemies are too hard for the player when they first arrive at a new dungeon, I try to set it up so that it's for that particular party (i.e. when I get to that point without any grinding). So annoying, I know >_<
I honestly no longer believe my game will ever be released in my lifetime, but I will continue to stubbornly claim otherwise and work on it occasionally. :P Who knows, maybe I'll prove myself wrong someday. ^_^
Xenomic
1752
author=Trihan
A bit of advice from experience: don't think "I will start with X and then do Y and then Z and then the rest!" because it doesn't really work. If you focus on one specific thing until it's done you'll get bored, and boredom is like poison to fledgling RPGs. Do what you feel comfortable with, but try to get at least a little bit done every day.
After looking at this, forgot to comment on this. I have been essentially working on this every day almost for the past 6 months straight (as stated before I think on one single set of abilities) as well as a few other abilities. Yes, for the past 6 months, and probably the past year, I have solely focused on database stuff. Yes, I do get extremely bored with it. Yes, it's not fun in the slightest bit having to manually edit every single line of code to make sure the ability works as intended. However, I don't let that stop me because if I let that stop me everytime I got bored with something, I'd never get anything done (much like mapping in fact. I get really bored with it most of the time, especially when I can't come up with a good design as is evidenced in the first 5 dungeons of the game...well, 4 now since 1 is revamped).
That's just my method of madness for myself. Gun one thing down and then move onto something else and gun it down. Normally, when I work on the game, I do mapping and then after finishing one map, go back and put the events in there, and if anything in there is going to be new or requires changes in the database, then I do that. I'm just trying to kill off some stuff that would otherwise be maddening later if I waited longer than I am.
I am good at wall of texts sometimes it seems...>_>
