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DO WE NEED TO USE TRIGONOMETRY TO DESIGN GAMES ?
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Mr_Detective
60
Mr_Detective
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CloseOK... I am taking Pre-Calculus in my first year of college, and it is hellish ! Not to mention that my teacher is rushing through chapters like she might die tomorrow and no one will teach us. I don't know when I would ever have to sit down and solve for log or draw a sin graph. I am trying to get a computer science or engineering degree and they both require high level math classes.
As I know, I need to have a computer science degree to become a game designer. What I don't get is, when do we ever have to use trigonometry to make a good game ? Does it even have anything to do with coding, or writing script ? I never have to solve any trig equations when using RPG Maker, nor did I when I used Autodesk in high school.
So what exactly is the point of taking it anyway ? Is it just so we can get the degree and get out ? This is not a math forum so I don't expect to get any help with the subject, but maybe someone can enlighten me on this. :)
As I know, I need to have a computer science degree to become a game designer. What I don't get is, when do we ever have to use trigonometry to make a good game ? Does it even have anything to do with coding, or writing script ? I never have to solve any trig equations when using RPG Maker, nor did I when I used Autodesk in high school.
So what exactly is the point of taking it anyway ? Is it just so we can get the degree and get out ? This is not a math forum so I don't expect to get any help with the subject, but maybe someone can enlighten me on this. :)
Trigonomety is important for certain aspects of programming, such as measuring distances, aspects of physics, rendering, etc. if you used RPG maker for the rest of your life, you might never need it, but it becomes more and more necessary the deeper you delve into gameplay and rendering code.
Edit: you don't need a CSE degree to be a game designer, but it will allow you another path to becoming one.
Edit: you don't need a CSE degree to be a game designer, but it will allow you another path to becoming one.
Well, my brother university thesis (bioenginering I think) was to desing a mouse that could be control with the eyes, were you put the eyes, the pointer will go to that place. Almost all the program consisted on trigonometry, and well, the kinect is very similar to that aspect, withouth trigonometry it probably won't work, and as slashphoenix says, it is very very important when it comes to deeper aspects of gaming which have been already said by slashphoenix,
sixe
43
???
trig/calculus is considered basic math in science heavy majors (eg: every flavor of engineering). you don thave a chjoice
it is not a strict requirement of progmamming itself but programmers encounter concepts/problems that demand some level of mathematical knowledge to understand/solvve
i imagine that this is especieally true in gamedev in which a major function of code is to build and manipulate vectors in 2d/3d spaces and emulate some kind of a system of physics with said vectors......
listen., you need math. to breathe. in 21st century
trig/calculus is considered basic math in science heavy majors (eg: every flavor of engineering). you don thave a chjoice
it is not a strict requirement of progmamming itself but programmers encounter concepts/problems that demand some level of mathematical knowledge to understand/solvve
i imagine that this is especieally true in gamedev in which a major function of code is to build and manipulate vectors in 2d/3d spaces and emulate some kind of a system of physics with said vectors......
listen., you need math. to breathe. in 21st century
sixe
43
author=Craze
meanwhile sixe refuses to adopt a more coherent and grammatically correct posting style
please
you cant even grasp the true form of my attack
Mr_Detective
60
Well, I am not sure how I could keep on going in my Pre-Calc class anymore... Nevertheless, hearing you guys said that trigonometry is actually useful in game designing and engineering, I would do my best and hope that I actually have some use for it.
Anybody else has other opinions ? I would like to hear it. ;)
LOL
WARNING : Badass detected !
Anybody else has other opinions ? I would like to hear it. ;)
meanwhile sixe refuses to adopt a more coherent and grammatically correct posting style
LOL
please
you cannot grasp the true form of my attack
WARNING : Badass detected !
dude i did like math once and i was like whoa its math and it was a blast and then we all went to like snowboard and got high and it was like whoa dude totally and then it was like ok dude time to go home so we went home.
CyberDagger
10
Short answer:
Yes
Long answer:
First of all, I'd like to challenge your assertion that you need a computer science degree to be a game designer. You don't. You need one to be a programmer, though. A game designer is by definition a jack of all trades. As you need to know a bit about everything, what degree you have is much less relevant than for other positions. However, game designer is almost never an entry level position. So what most people do is try to get in on another position and try to rise to designer from the inside. Most people choose to start as programmers, which is why computer science is so popular as a degree for hopeful game designers, and the job market for computer experts is also in a pretty good state, so you don't need to starve while you can't get in the game industry. No one's stopping you from rising from artist to designer, for example, though. It has certainly been done before.
Now, trigonometry. You've been using basically just RPG Maker engines, which explains why you don't really see te use of it. However, as soon as you try to make real time games, you'll see why it might be useful. The simplest example, if you want to have an object oscillate evenly, you need to put a sine function into its movement code. But really, you'll use it a lot. You want to simulate physics, calculate a projectile's trajectory? You'll need trigonometry eventually.
For example, I'm looking into making a shmup, and the positions of objects are saved in cartesian coordinates, but bullet movement is modelled in polar coordinates. How do you convert cartesian to polar or vice-versa? Trigo-fucking-nometry! If I want a bullet to be fired in the direction of the player, I find out the difference in x coordinates between the enemy and the player, do the same for the y coordinates, calculate the tangent, and then use the arctangent function to get the angle at which the bullet should be fired.
And hey, trigonometry's fairly easy. Just wait till double integrals.
Yes
Long answer:
First of all, I'd like to challenge your assertion that you need a computer science degree to be a game designer. You don't. You need one to be a programmer, though. A game designer is by definition a jack of all trades. As you need to know a bit about everything, what degree you have is much less relevant than for other positions. However, game designer is almost never an entry level position. So what most people do is try to get in on another position and try to rise to designer from the inside. Most people choose to start as programmers, which is why computer science is so popular as a degree for hopeful game designers, and the job market for computer experts is also in a pretty good state, so you don't need to starve while you can't get in the game industry. No one's stopping you from rising from artist to designer, for example, though. It has certainly been done before.
Now, trigonometry. You've been using basically just RPG Maker engines, which explains why you don't really see te use of it. However, as soon as you try to make real time games, you'll see why it might be useful. The simplest example, if you want to have an object oscillate evenly, you need to put a sine function into its movement code. But really, you'll use it a lot. You want to simulate physics, calculate a projectile's trajectory? You'll need trigonometry eventually.
For example, I'm looking into making a shmup, and the positions of objects are saved in cartesian coordinates, but bullet movement is modelled in polar coordinates. How do you convert cartesian to polar or vice-versa? Trigo-fucking-nometry! If I want a bullet to be fired in the direction of the player, I find out the difference in x coordinates between the enemy and the player, do the same for the y coordinates, calculate the tangent, and then use the arctangent function to get the angle at which the bullet should be fired.
And hey, trigonometry's fairly easy. Just wait till double integrals.
CyberDagger
10
Not sure if serious, but I'll bite.
The part of mathematics that allows you to know the size of all sides of a right triangle, if you know the size of one side and the amplitude of one of its angles.
Wiki here. It's kind of a big deal.
The part of mathematics that allows you to know the size of all sides of a right triangle, if you know the size of one side and the amplitude of one of its angles.
Wiki here. It's kind of a big deal.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
In two situations in my life I have used calculus for the purposes of game design.
Trig, somewhat more often. I gave a healing spell formula in one game an arctangent curve, for example, so that it continued to grow as your stats grew for a certain period of the game, but then slowed down and eventually capped its power about six or seven levels after the next upgraded spell became available, forcing you to get the upgrade. While there are a lot of curves that slow down as they go, arctangent curves are asymptotic and so they actually have a hard cap - the spell would never heal more than 1400 HP. I wanted a hard cap like that, but I also wanted it to curve and reach the cap gradually, so that they player would gradually get a stronger and stronger feeling of "this spell is starting to suck, I need a new one." By adjusting the coefficient and offset of the arctangent function, I was able to get several such curves for different tiers of healing spells.
So, there's a game design story involving trig for you. Maybe that's inspiring enough to make you do this week's homework? Or maybe it's just boring enough to make you not want to design RPGs any more? Or maybe it just makes me look like a nerd? I dunno.
...But really, as far as programming and design goes, the reason you take math isn't to teach you formulas. It's to teach you how to approach and solve logic problems. This will become more evident somewhere around the middle of Calculus 2, when suddenly there aren't formulas for obtaining answers any more, there are just ways that are more or less likely to work. Suddenly you are actually figuring out the solution, instead of just applying the solution. Trig and Calc 1 don't have much of that, but they're things you have to learn to get there.
Though really I wish they'd just let comp sci majors skip straight from trig to statistics and discrete structures, because those are the parts that I actually found directly useful and interesting. All that calculus stuff is okay, but I think it's really just fluff to pad the number of classes you have to pay for. Statistics I use every single day. Shit, I even use it when playing games. Did you know that an item that drops from an enemy at a 1 in 50 drop rate in an RPG doesn't mean it'll take you 50 kills to get the item? On average it'll take you 34 kills. Math is weird, man.
Trig, somewhat more often. I gave a healing spell formula in one game an arctangent curve, for example, so that it continued to grow as your stats grew for a certain period of the game, but then slowed down and eventually capped its power about six or seven levels after the next upgraded spell became available, forcing you to get the upgrade. While there are a lot of curves that slow down as they go, arctangent curves are asymptotic and so they actually have a hard cap - the spell would never heal more than 1400 HP. I wanted a hard cap like that, but I also wanted it to curve and reach the cap gradually, so that they player would gradually get a stronger and stronger feeling of "this spell is starting to suck, I need a new one." By adjusting the coefficient and offset of the arctangent function, I was able to get several such curves for different tiers of healing spells.
So, there's a game design story involving trig for you. Maybe that's inspiring enough to make you do this week's homework? Or maybe it's just boring enough to make you not want to design RPGs any more? Or maybe it just makes me look like a nerd? I dunno.
...But really, as far as programming and design goes, the reason you take math isn't to teach you formulas. It's to teach you how to approach and solve logic problems. This will become more evident somewhere around the middle of Calculus 2, when suddenly there aren't formulas for obtaining answers any more, there are just ways that are more or less likely to work. Suddenly you are actually figuring out the solution, instead of just applying the solution. Trig and Calc 1 don't have much of that, but they're things you have to learn to get there.
Though really I wish they'd just let comp sci majors skip straight from trig to statistics and discrete structures, because those are the parts that I actually found directly useful and interesting. All that calculus stuff is okay, but I think it's really just fluff to pad the number of classes you have to pay for. Statistics I use every single day. Shit, I even use it when playing games. Did you know that an item that drops from an enemy at a 1 in 50 drop rate in an RPG doesn't mean it'll take you 50 kills to get the item? On average it'll take you 34 kills. Math is weird, man.
Question: Everyone here knows you don't need a degree to be a game designer, right?
Maybe you need a degree if you want a specific, knowledge-heavy job in the corporate world, but you can program, art, and design without any sort of degree, and if you work at it you can be very successful as well.
Maybe you need a degree if you want a specific, knowledge-heavy job in the corporate world, but you can program, art, and design without any sort of degree, and if you work at it you can be very successful as well.
I suggest learning whatever you can without worrying whether or not what you are currently learning will be directly applicable to a situation sometime in your future. For one, you never know! For seconds, learning ANYTHING helps improve your general ability TO LEARN, and that is a good thing.
Also, trig is important to know.
Never regret anything you learn. That's silly.
Also, trig is important to know.
Never regret anything you learn. That's silly.
Yes, Trig is very important in making games. But in fact, making games taught me trig, and I then applied it in classes.
http://spheredev.org/smforums/index.php?topic=5312.msg76101#msg76101
Maybe it's more relevant if you use something like Sphere than something like RPG Maker.
http://spheredev.org/smforums/index.php?topic=5312.msg76101#msg76101
Maybe it's more relevant if you use something like Sphere than something like RPG Maker.
Trig, and other forms of Math are like types of magic to us artsy folk.
I see my Masters Degree math bud do equations and it's as magical as when I shart out a simple character design that he awes at. What a magical existence~
I see my Masters Degree math bud do equations and it's as magical as when I shart out a simple character design that he awes at. What a magical existence~
Irili
3198
I would say that it's less about using the math on a daily (or even consistent) basis and more about understanding it so that when shit goes wrong in the design phase, you can look back over plans, blueprints, etc. and go "Aha! That's what went wrong!"
A civil engineer I spoke to about a year ago told me the highest math he used regularly was algebra. He maybe pulled some calculus out of his ass a few times a year.
As for your teacher, that super sucks. Only resources are available to you though and there are plenty of sites that will take you step by step through everything. What book are you using if I might ask?
A civil engineer I spoke to about a year ago told me the highest math he used regularly was algebra. He maybe pulled some calculus out of his ass a few times a year.
As for your teacher, that super sucks. Only resources are available to you though and there are plenty of sites that will take you step by step through everything. What book are you using if I might ask?
Mr_Detective
60
The book I have is "PreCalculus 6e, Mathematics for Calculus". :P
It doesn't really help much, and the way it explains things is also confusing. I did horrible on the last trig test and I currently have a crappy B-. I have one more test and the exam, hopefully I can get my grade to an A.
As for needing a computer science degree to become a game designer, that 's what I see on Google. I wasn't sure what major should I choose so I "googled" it and that was the response I get the most on Yahoo. ;)
The problem is, without anything to apply to, I ended up forgetting most of what I learned. I remember learning to use Fireworks in my Web Design class, now that 's something useful.
It doesn't really help much, and the way it explains things is also confusing. I did horrible on the last trig test and I currently have a crappy B-. I have one more test and the exam, hopefully I can get my grade to an A.
As for needing a computer science degree to become a game designer, that 's what I see on Google. I wasn't sure what major should I choose so I "googled" it and that was the response I get the most on Yahoo. ;)
Maybe it's more relevant if you use something like Sphere than something like RPG Maker.
The problem is, without anything to apply to, I ended up forgetting most of what I learned. I remember learning to use Fireworks in my Web Design class, now that 's something useful.
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