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KILL THE SCREENSHOT TOPIC
Posts
Craze
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Closeyou guys did not read my post
I do not want a screenshot thread, like, at all. Not even in the merged "watchu doin'" thread; screenshots there would be "halp how do I make this map not suck."
The GD&D forum would have the recently screenshots/pic of the moment at the top of it, displayed like they are on the RMN homepage.
This website is about game profiles... we should probably shove them in people's faces. To anybody who says "what if you have a screenshot but no game profile:" YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
The ability to look at recent screens would be right there in the same forum, but linked to the screenshot's page. Imagine if the screenshot thread wasn't cluttered with Itaju dithering debates! Wowie-zowie! Add in a browsing feature that lets you go back through the latest thirty screens or whatever (in case of a Max McGee HAVE FORTY SCREENS GUYS event), and ta-da~~~
EDIT: Maybe even show the four or five most-buzzing screenshots for enhanced Itaju dithering squabbles.
I do not want a screenshot thread, like, at all. Not even in the merged "watchu doin'" thread; screenshots there would be "halp how do I make this map not suck."
The GD&D forum would have the recently screenshots/pic of the moment at the top of it, displayed like they are on the RMN homepage.
This website is about game profiles... we should probably shove them in people's faces. To anybody who says "what if you have a screenshot but no game profile:" YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
The ability to look at recent screens would be right there in the same forum, but linked to the screenshot's page. Imagine if the screenshot thread wasn't cluttered with Itaju dithering debates! Wowie-zowie! Add in a browsing feature that lets you go back through the latest thirty screens or whatever (in case of a Max McGee HAVE FORTY SCREENS GUYS event), and ta-da~~~
EDIT: Maybe even show the four or five most-buzzing screenshots for enhanced Itaju dithering squabbles.
I do see an issue with this, though - spamming game pages with samey pictures over and over in the hopes of getting people to comment. It'd be a nightmare, especially when it's all the same game or person who doesn't know better/care.
Then again, I guess we could do the buzzing thing, but even then the games that need the most help would be ignored and only the prettiest ones will get the help - which is what goes on on game pages anyway.
I don't know. I like the idea but I can see some issues that would arise because of it. It's not like we can limit the amount to just one shot per game, either, because someone might need a lot of help with all their work. Or have a couple of areas where they need improvement and just be brushed over. Also, the screenshots area tends to move pretty fast at times. There would still be pictures that are passed over because they just happened to be posted at the same time as a new game or a load of different screen shots. And this isn't even talking about the deliberate spamming that I brought up before.
The thing is, we'd have to trust people to do the right thing - and while a lot of people do, there are always a few who try to game the system, ruining it for everyone else.
Still, it's something to look in to.
Then again, I guess we could do the buzzing thing, but even then the games that need the most help would be ignored and only the prettiest ones will get the help - which is what goes on on game pages anyway.
I don't know. I like the idea but I can see some issues that would arise because of it. It's not like we can limit the amount to just one shot per game, either, because someone might need a lot of help with all their work. Or have a couple of areas where they need improvement and just be brushed over. Also, the screenshots area tends to move pretty fast at times. There would still be pictures that are passed over because they just happened to be posted at the same time as a new game or a load of different screen shots. And this isn't even talking about the deliberate spamming that I brought up before.
The thing is, we'd have to trust people to do the right thing - and while a lot of people do, there are always a few who try to game the system, ruining it for everyone else.
Still, it's something to look in to.
The wisest Aussies are the ones who aren't dead by 30~ ^.~
By that age you're considered to have encountered over three lifetimes worth of an non-Australian's troubles and deadly situations~
By that age you're considered to have encountered over three lifetimes worth of an non-Australian's troubles and deadly situations~
if people spam they can be reported. it would be very easy to see if somebody was spamming.
and I suggest a handful of buzzing screenshots, but mostly the recent ones.
besides... we really don't have that many people using this site, anyway. I'd love for there to be more, but I think your OH NOES are founded on the idea that we have a larger userbase. We... don't. But we DO need the people that are here to see the other people that are here!
and I suggest a handful of buzzing screenshots, but mostly the recent ones.
besides... we really don't have that many people using this site, anyway. I'd love for there to be more, but I think your OH NOES are founded on the idea that we have a larger userbase. We... don't. But we DO need the people that are here to see the other people that are here!
You'd think it would be easy to tell, but in some cases it's not quite so straight-forward, but even barring spamming as a consequence, the most recent buzzing screens are either the really bad or the really good ones. Those who fall in the middle and need more polish would not get a look in, so really it would cater more towards the drama-fest that is RMN at times.
And to say that we don't get that many people, while true, is also a little wrong. Compared to many sites you're right, we don't get a lot of people. Compared to RM sites, you're wrong - we get a lot of traffic, even cross-over traffic from other sites. That's because the English RM world as a whole is rather small when it comes down to it.
Just this last month past we had over 400 (446) separate people come through and actually post. That isn't counting those who just lurk. For an RM site that's pretty damn good, so yes, we get quite a few interactive visitors and members.
Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying it's a bad idea straight out. It does have a lot of potential and it's great to see new ideas being thrown about. Like kentona said, do throw designs and ideas around. New stuff helps the community - and site in general - grow and become a better place. Just don't be upset if you're told it needs some rethinking and tweaking to make it actually a viable idea.
The Moderators have to cater to the whole of the site and consider a lot more than just what to put where and if it'd be a nice feature. As always, there's more to consider behind the scenes with every change that is added.
And to say that we don't get that many people, while true, is also a little wrong. Compared to many sites you're right, we don't get a lot of people. Compared to RM sites, you're wrong - we get a lot of traffic, even cross-over traffic from other sites. That's because the English RM world as a whole is rather small when it comes down to it.
Just this last month past we had over 400 (446) separate people come through and actually post. That isn't counting those who just lurk. For an RM site that's pretty damn good, so yes, we get quite a few interactive visitors and members.
Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying it's a bad idea straight out. It does have a lot of potential and it's great to see new ideas being thrown about. Like kentona said, do throw designs and ideas around. New stuff helps the community - and site in general - grow and become a better place. Just don't be upset if you're told it needs some rethinking and tweaking to make it actually a viable idea.
The Moderators have to cater to the whole of the site and consider a lot more than just what to put where and if it'd be a nice feature. As always, there's more to consider behind the scenes with every change that is added.
We get a decent amount of traffic for our niche. RMW is about 52 percent busier based on Alexa, but some of that is business-related. But, naturally, our hobby is rather niche and we're not likely going to see a massive boom of interest. There's always the potential for spammers and whatnot, but they're usually selected out by the community.
The drama-fests have been on the decline, mostly...but I can see the concern. I'd rather see effort spent on critique rather than ridicule. On my end, I can do a better job denying games with poor screenshots until the developer demonstrates improvement in their mapping. I often refer developers with denied games to mapping tutorials. Lately I've given a few the benefit of the doubt, which could backfire.
I like the idea of keeping game profiles front and center. There aren't many scenarios where a user will have only a single screenshot to critique and not a game. If they have three, well...they most likely have an idea of where the game is going, and will be able to make a game profile. Newbies and people who are really early in their development process are probably the only ones who need an isolated topic - and they have one in the form of "What are you doing?" or Help and Requests.
Libby does bring up a legit issue. When game profiles are included, all of their screenshots are added to the "recent" queue. Also, people tend to upload screenshots in chunks. Even if we're not a massive site, there are still instances where various screenshots are washed out by a new game or a massive upload. Staff could intervene and filter things out if necessary. It probably wouldn't be a difficult feature to implement.
The drama-fests have been on the decline, mostly...but I can see the concern. I'd rather see effort spent on critique rather than ridicule. On my end, I can do a better job denying games with poor screenshots until the developer demonstrates improvement in their mapping. I often refer developers with denied games to mapping tutorials. Lately I've given a few the benefit of the doubt, which could backfire.
I like the idea of keeping game profiles front and center. There aren't many scenarios where a user will have only a single screenshot to critique and not a game. If they have three, well...they most likely have an idea of where the game is going, and will be able to make a game profile. Newbies and people who are really early in their development process are probably the only ones who need an isolated topic - and they have one in the form of "What are you doing?" or Help and Requests.
Libby does bring up a legit issue. When game profiles are included, all of their screenshots are added to the "recent" queue. Also, people tend to upload screenshots in chunks. Even if we're not a massive site, there are still instances where various screenshots are washed out by a new game or a massive upload. Staff could intervene and filter things out if necessary. It probably wouldn't be a difficult feature to implement.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
So, I agree that I don't want people to post screenshots in the screenshot thread just to show them off, but... I'm pretty sure no one actually does that. Right now, it's just a feedback and discussion thread for improving your game's visuals. So like, is having two threads instead of one a serious problem? One thread for getting help with graphics and other for getting help with non-graphical stuff seems pretty reasonable. Combining them would just make a more cluttered multi-purpose thread, which people would then suggest splitting. Nothing wrong with segregating posts according to what they're about...
alteregoActually the Creative Corner says right in the forum description that it's not for game resources. So the Pixels topic in there, while a huge and long-standing thread, is actually against the rules. Help Requests & Resources is where it should be. Speaking of which, the Screenshot Topic's role as a thread for getting help rather than for showing off, if anyone really thinks there's confusion about that, would be cemented if it were moved to GD&T or HR&R.
Actually I like the idea of a more integrated Game art topic. I always resented a bit that Pixel Art was relegated to the Creative corner.
Dyhalto
7536
author=Craze
To anybody who says "what if you have a screenshot but no game profile:" YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Not true.
I'm sure there are some developers who turtle a little for the specific purpose of not having their gamepage saturated with "this looks terrible" or "read this mapping tutorial". Meanwhile, they can take a screen to the screenshots thread, be the topic du jour, get desired feedback, and have the old stuff disappear into the hundreds of pages.
Also, an uninteresting screenshot on your profile may not receive any attention whatsoever. But even if you take a VX RTP forest map to the screenshots thread, you will get a reply.
Sharm
0
I hope I'm not showing how new I am by suggesting this. What about some sort of gallery view that would show the last uploaded screenshots of every game that has a profile. Games with more recent uploads would be bumped up the list so spamming lots of graphics all at once wouldn't do much of anything but dead games would be lost to the back pages. Clicking would bring up the same thing clicking screenshots on your game's page would.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Sharm
I hope I'm not showing how new I am by suggesting this.
saying that is a dead give away
What about some sort of gallery view that would show the last uploaded screenshots of every game that has a profile.
something like this? http://rpgmaker.net/images/
I'm against the idea of killing the topic.
author=Craze
I do not want a screenshot thread, like, at all.
you don't, most of us do. I get that you want to see image discussion be on game pages, but I don't think removing the topic will accomplish that. this seems more like a response to the recent, but recurring, drama between the expressed opinions in the topic. but drama will occur anywhere.
images on game pages are more difficult to find. about the only way to find them is to look at Latest Images(or see something on the front page). other than that you would have to go browsing through many game pages. if I wanted to do that, I'd be doing it already :P
when you find a good game you subscribe and people do still add images so you will get notices and can comment on them. those images are mostly posted because it's a final product of what the game will look like. obviously you can give feedback and most of the time it will result in change for the better, but having a neutral place to get feedback on temporary/early stage graphics from users who would never visit/find your game page is invaluable.
plus sometimes I want input on some graphics I'm working on so an image is thrown together to show off the chipset, or whatever. it's not meant to be a screenshot to show off the game so it doesn't really belong in the game pages catalog of images.
I've really moved away from browsing this site for games anyways. I'm more of a casual RMN'er now, so I don't expect my opinion to weigh too heavily. I pretty much find new games from topics(by checking out the user's profile/game list) and the frontpage exclusively now. I rely on kentona to tell me what's good.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Link, maybe read the rest of his post(s) instead of just the first sentence of that one and you will see he did not suggest no longer having a topic for feedback on screenshots; he suggested combining it and a couple other threads into a general "help me with whatever the fuck I'm doing" thread, thereby presumably keeping people from posting finished screenshots that they don't want input or discussion on.
However, I don't see the point of combining the entire help requests and resources + game design and theory forums into a single thread, which sounds like basically what he's suggesting.
However, I don't see the point of combining the entire help requests and resources + game design and theory forums into a single thread, which sounds like basically what he's suggesting.
TheNecromancer
3160
I did read it all. them all.
it seems like he's suggesting that anything posted should be about the technical "game design" aspect of the screen (mapping, placement), and not about getting basic opinions about the look of the graphics(technique, shading, style). anything about the look of graphics or "showing off" should be posted on game pages, which would show up in
maybe I'm wrong. most of my last post was focused on one thing that may not be entirely what his argument was about but having a screenshot topic isn't as much of a segregater as he wants us to believe. if someone posts a cool screen, anybody can find their game page and follow them. often times that's all it takes to get someone interested in the game and subsequently the dev. it doesn't mean the art is all that matters, but its the biggest drawn in. after that, if the person has a brain, they will look at the other aspects of the game and decide it's worth.
my point is mainly that a lot of people like the screenshot topic the way it is. some might use it purely to say "look at what I did", but many of the people posting ask for specific help or at least make a comment about it like "testing out a new shading style". even if they don't, the browsers will pick it apart anyway. it's like anything else, if you don't like it then don't click into it. but instead you don't like it so you want to abolish it.
beyond that, having everything in one topic would feel somewhat cluttered. but only if there are a lot of things posted and being discussed at the same time. how about we merge every political topic and talk about everything at once?
*must stop editing post*
I do not want a screenshot thread, like, at all. Not even in the merged "watchu doin'" thread; screenshots there would be "halp how do I make this map not suck."
it seems like he's suggesting that anything posted should be about the technical "game design" aspect of the screen (mapping, placement), and not about getting basic opinions about the look of the graphics(technique, shading, style). anything about the look of graphics or "showing off" should be posted on game pages, which would show up in
the GD&D forum having latest screenshots and the pic of the moment at the top
maybe I'm wrong. most of my last post was focused on one thing that may not be entirely what his argument was about but having a screenshot topic isn't as much of a segregater as he wants us to believe. if someone posts a cool screen, anybody can find their game page and follow them. often times that's all it takes to get someone interested in the game and subsequently the dev. it doesn't mean the art is all that matters, but its the biggest drawn in. after that, if the person has a brain, they will look at the other aspects of the game and decide it's worth.
my point is mainly that a lot of people like the screenshot topic the way it is. some might use it purely to say "look at what I did", but many of the people posting ask for specific help or at least make a comment about it like "testing out a new shading style". even if they don't, the browsers will pick it apart anyway. it's like anything else, if you don't like it then don't click into it. but instead you don't like it so you want to abolish it.
beyond that, having everything in one topic would feel somewhat cluttered. but only if there are a lot of things posted and being discussed at the same time. how about we merge every political topic and talk about everything at once?
*must stop editing post*
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I will say I have followed more games because of the screenshot topic than because of any other reason. Let's Try videos come in second but I don't have time to watch many of them.
I also don't think there's any difference between what you're describing as technical and non-technical aspects of screenshots.
I also don't really think anyone is using it just to say "look what I did." It happens a couple times a year and they get propmtly shunned out of the topic for refusing to accept criticism. No big deal.
I also don't think there's any difference between what you're describing as technical and non-technical aspects of screenshots.
author=crazeThis is the OP and basically I think the summary of the idea. Everything else is just justification for the idea. But we don't need even bigger catch-all threads. The screenshot topic is cluttered enough as it is, and I'd actually prefer if it were split up into several topics, maybe one for feedback and advice on videos you're making, and one for feedback and advice on resources you're making. Or maybe one topic for getting help with map screenshots, one for menu screenshots, and one for battle screenshots. Any time a topic has 5000 posts, it is clearly too general.
We can then merge the "thinking about"/"working on" thread with "Watchu Got Goin' On?", which can be the catch-all "help I don't know how to improve this map" or hey I just whipped up a cool script" or "just finished this character bio, watchu think?" thread for people who don't have blog-worthy stuff going on. We really don't need two threads for this, and important things/completed screenshots should be put on game profiles!
I also don't really think anyone is using it just to say "look what I did." It happens a couple times a year and they get propmtly shunned out of the topic for refusing to accept criticism. No big deal.
oh goodness
I'm just going to say this: I don't care about what people want, I care about RMN developing as a site that takes its cool features and makes them as accessible and noticeable as is humanly possible. ABOLISH SEGREGATION 2012
If we do have a screenshot thread in the future, it should only be of screenshots people take while playing other people's games, anyway.
I'm just going to say this: I don't care about what people want, I care about RMN developing as a site that takes its cool features and makes them as accessible and noticeable as is humanly possible. ABOLISH SEGREGATION 2012
If we do have a screenshot thread in the future, it should only be of screenshots people take while playing other people's games, anyway.
TheNecromancer
3160
The screenshot topic is cluttered enough as it is, and I'd actually prefer if it were split up into several topics, maybe one for feedback and advice on videos you're making, and one for feedback and advice on resources you're making. Or maybe one topic for getting help with map screenshots, one for menu screenshots, and one for battle screenshots. Any time a topic has 5000 posts, it is clearly too general.
ah, I think that is going a little over board. if Craze was campaigning to merge map screens, menu screens, and battle screens into one topic I'd be on board.
5000 over how long a period? It's been over a year and half if my maths are correct. once something is more than 2-3 pages old, it's no longer "in the way".
I also don't really think anyone is using it just to say "look what I did." It happens a couple times a year and they get propmtly shunned out of the topic for refusing to accept criticism. No big deal.
nobody does it, but some do XP I wasn't trying to say that it's a big deal but I could probably point out a few. I don't see it as a negative thing, but it seems like a few people do(not based on posts in here). if you've got it, flaunt it. in the screenshot topic :D
author=Craze
I don't care about what people want, I care aboutRMNwhat I want
haha I don't see how posting screens in the forum has anything to do with not using the sites features. it's not like people only post screens in the topic then never post them on the game page.
see that is the kind of forum/game profile segregation that needs to end. it's pointless and detracts from the game profiles
re: "what Craze wants hurr hurr" yes this position is going to help me personally. i have a lot to gain from this in terms of money-dollars. so many money-dollars
re: "what Craze wants hurr hurr" yes this position is going to help me personally. i have a lot to gain from this in terms of money-dollars. so many money-dollars
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Craze
see that is the kind of forum/game profile segregation that needs to end. it's pointless and detracts from the game profiles
it's more about visibility and actually getting a response. I wouldn't be surprised if feedback went down 80%(that's right, I pulled that out of my ass) if we weren't allowed to post screens anywhere else but game pages(and yes, I'm being sarcastic).
most people don't browse through recent screen shots looking to give feedback. just look at the recent screens, there's like 2-3 people who seem to post on the majority of recent screens and it's usually a joke and a "good job". it's not because people are only looking in the screenshot topic, it's because they seemingly have no interest in browsing game pages for images to critique. I wouldn't be surprised if 80%(there it is again) of posts on screens on game pages are from current subscribers so they're already biased to like whatever you post.
hell, just look at the title screenshot of Itaju's game. on the game page it's a bunch of "looks awesome, everythings awesome" but in the screenshot topic everyone has a strong opinion on the art style. If you remove the topic it's not going to magically get people to start looking at the game profile and if they do they are more likely to say nice positive things.
people post on the screenshot topic because they don't get critical feedback from the game page. it's not a symptom of segregation and removing the topic will not change anything significant. there will just be less useful feedback and no place to go where you are almost guaranteed another perspective.
it would be nice to have more going on in the game pages(I'm with you on that one) but I think it's something else that needs to change. not sure what, but removing the topic isn't the answer.
nobody really has anything to gain from RMN but the fact is that it is made up of more than just you and your dreams for it. so yeah, it matters what other people want and think.
*plus, it's not just screen shots on game pages that lack comments. the game pages themselves don't seem to get much action. so many times I come across an awesome game that has been here for a long time and there are hardly any comments. we should kill the entire forum so the only place to talk is on the game pages! GAME PAGES ARE LIFE!
I rely on kentona to tell me what's good.oh shit
For the record, Google Analytics say that rpgmaker.net gets about 3000-4000 unique visitors per day.
i mean WIP wanted to kill the forums altogether for that purpose but yeah that didn't fly
anyway you are saying "THINGS THAT ARE IN PLACE RIGHT NOW ARE NOT PERFECT" and I am saying "HERE ARE WAYS TO TRY TO MOVE THINGS AROUND SO THAT IT ALL WORKS"
i can't keep repeating myself like this, it's horrible. you are going on about IF WE REMOVE THE SCREENSHOT TOPIC and nobody seems to give a fuck about the solutions I also have stated (browsable pages of recent and buzzing screenshots built into the top of the GD&D forum).
and with that I'm done posting in this topic unless somebody has a very specific question for me because y'all are running in circles? backwards lines? idek. it's pretty ridiculous.
kentona: when I was talking about user base I was talking about the people that are uploading screenshots. we are not getting fifty screenshots an hour.
anyway you are saying "THINGS THAT ARE IN PLACE RIGHT NOW ARE NOT PERFECT" and I am saying "HERE ARE WAYS TO TRY TO MOVE THINGS AROUND SO THAT IT ALL WORKS"
i can't keep repeating myself like this, it's horrible. you are going on about IF WE REMOVE THE SCREENSHOT TOPIC and nobody seems to give a fuck about the solutions I also have stated (browsable pages of recent and buzzing screenshots built into the top of the GD&D forum).
and with that I'm done posting in this topic unless somebody has a very specific question for me because y'all are running in circles? backwards lines? idek. it's pretty ridiculous.
kentona: when I was talking about user base I was talking about the people that are uploading screenshots. we are not getting fifty screenshots an hour.
