PARAMETERS
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How do you feel about parameters?
Are the default ones good enough? (that's a rhetorical question when we talk about rm2k/3 for they're obviously not)
Do you prefer big numbers, or small numbers?
And the formulae?
Can you cite examples of games that pull nice, clean parameters and formulae for us to analyze?
I think my personal favorite parameters & formulae are those present on Final Fantasy X. Numbers are overall low, simple, you know everything they do, and the battle formulae is actually quadratic in nature - getting one more point of STR when you have 24 may mean 30 more points of damage, but getting one point more when you have 50 will likely mean 500 or more.
Also I like the way the game handles equipment parameters - they directly change the damage income and outcome, instead of affecting parameters. That felt really fresh and more organized, resulting in a system where each stat point matters, and a system that's clean and truly understandable.
Are the default ones good enough? (that's a rhetorical question when we talk about rm2k/3 for they're obviously not)
Do you prefer big numbers, or small numbers?
And the formulae?
Can you cite examples of games that pull nice, clean parameters and formulae for us to analyze?
I think my personal favorite parameters & formulae are those present on Final Fantasy X. Numbers are overall low, simple, you know everything they do, and the battle formulae is actually quadratic in nature - getting one more point of STR when you have 24 may mean 30 more points of damage, but getting one point more when you have 50 will likely mean 500 or more.
Also I like the way the game handles equipment parameters - they directly change the damage income and outcome, instead of affecting parameters. That felt really fresh and more organized, resulting in a system where each stat point matters, and a system that's clean and truly understandable.
Not only I posted this in the wrong subforum, this topic is somewhat redundant to a previously existing topic. Not the same, but similar.
So I guess this should be locked, burned and sent to Hel ;_;
So I guess this should be locked, burned and sent to Hel ;_;
I'll give an example of a game whose parameters and formulas made a good impression on me, which is unlikely to make it into this discussion otherwise.
Kamidori Alchemy Meister is a visual novel/strategy RPG hybrid, much heavier on gameplay than most hybrid visual novels. The game contains explicit sexual content (I actually personally believe that explicit sexual content can have a legitimate place in works of artistic merit, but the sexual content in Kamidori Alchemy Meister tends heavily towards the gratuitous.) On the gameplay side though, it's exceptionally well devised, and uses an unusually simple system which actually turns out to be remarkably well balanced and suited to the sorts of challenges the game presents.
Physical attacks are determined by the formula of ATK-DEF, where the defender's defense power is simply subtracted directly from the attacker's attack power. An attacker with 50 attack power hitting an enemy with 25 defense will do 25 damage, an attacker with 100 attack power hitting an enemy with 25 defense will do 75 damage. There is no randomization, and the results are totally predictable in advance of each move. Most other combat formulas are similarly simple. There are various multipliers or dividers involved when dealing with elemental weaknesses or affinities and such, but again, these are all simple and deterministic, and their results can be predicted in advance.
On the other hand, once you progress beyond the early stages where you're still picking up the game principles, there tend to be enough moving parts on a battlefield that it's difficult to extend precise predictions more than a few moves in ahead. Maps are often extensive, and unexplored portions are hidden from view, including enemies within that space, so new threats are often produced unpredictably over the course of a battle. Even though you can usually determine the precise immediate consequences of a move, gameplay still tends to revolve around calculated risk. Moves whose immediate consequences aren't entirely predictable don't come into play until much later in the game, and add another element to the risk management, where you have to weigh their potential usefulness against moves whose results you can be certain of.
Number values stay fairly low over the course of the game; you're never going to hit 999 damage with an attack, let alone 9999. But the game still manages to implement a huge scope of mechanical character growth from beginning to end. Like the Disgaea series, the Kamidori contains extensive super-endgame material, where beating it once opens up a lot of new content which is more challenging than anything faced in the initial playthrough. The game contains three distinct main plotlines (in addition to a huge number of sidequests,) so accessing the New Game+ material (which constitutes a really surprising proportion of the game,) doesn't entail playing through the same main plot repeatedly.
I also found the game's take on weapon attack power interesting. While, like most games, the character's attack power is their strength plus their weapon's attack power, that attack power is measured against the baseline of their most basic weapon. The attack power for bottom tier weapons is zero, and early in the game, weapons differentiated by a single point of attack power will result in meaningfully different performance in battle.
Kamidori Alchemy Meister is a visual novel/strategy RPG hybrid, much heavier on gameplay than most hybrid visual novels. The game contains explicit sexual content (I actually personally believe that explicit sexual content can have a legitimate place in works of artistic merit, but the sexual content in Kamidori Alchemy Meister tends heavily towards the gratuitous.) On the gameplay side though, it's exceptionally well devised, and uses an unusually simple system which actually turns out to be remarkably well balanced and suited to the sorts of challenges the game presents.
Physical attacks are determined by the formula of ATK-DEF, where the defender's defense power is simply subtracted directly from the attacker's attack power. An attacker with 50 attack power hitting an enemy with 25 defense will do 25 damage, an attacker with 100 attack power hitting an enemy with 25 defense will do 75 damage. There is no randomization, and the results are totally predictable in advance of each move. Most other combat formulas are similarly simple. There are various multipliers or dividers involved when dealing with elemental weaknesses or affinities and such, but again, these are all simple and deterministic, and their results can be predicted in advance.
On the other hand, once you progress beyond the early stages where you're still picking up the game principles, there tend to be enough moving parts on a battlefield that it's difficult to extend precise predictions more than a few moves in ahead. Maps are often extensive, and unexplored portions are hidden from view, including enemies within that space, so new threats are often produced unpredictably over the course of a battle. Even though you can usually determine the precise immediate consequences of a move, gameplay still tends to revolve around calculated risk. Moves whose immediate consequences aren't entirely predictable don't come into play until much later in the game, and add another element to the risk management, where you have to weigh their potential usefulness against moves whose results you can be certain of.
Number values stay fairly low over the course of the game; you're never going to hit 999 damage with an attack, let alone 9999. But the game still manages to implement a huge scope of mechanical character growth from beginning to end. Like the Disgaea series, the Kamidori contains extensive super-endgame material, where beating it once opens up a lot of new content which is more challenging than anything faced in the initial playthrough. The game contains three distinct main plotlines (in addition to a huge number of sidequests,) so accessing the New Game+ material (which constitutes a really surprising proportion of the game,) doesn't entail playing through the same main plot repeatedly.
I also found the game's take on weapon attack power interesting. While, like most games, the character's attack power is their strength plus their weapon's attack power, that attack power is measured against the baseline of their most basic weapon. The attack power for bottom tier weapons is zero, and early in the game, weapons differentiated by a single point of attack power will result in meaningfully different performance in battle.
I prefer to use completely unique parameter systems rather than using the default ones. I designed different systems for each game I designed.
In one game for example I replaced the stats ATK/DEF/ACC/EVA/MATK/MDEF with weapon types "Fist, Lance, Bow, Axe, Sword, Staff". Those stats didn't only work to increase the damage and accuracy, but also worked as defense and evasion against the weapon type.
Also I don't really care too much about high numbers. It always depends on the system on how high that end up. The smallest unit I start with when designed games is always "1" (or "10" in arcade game scores, the last digit always should represent the number of credits used) and then depending on the power growth system it might just end up with 20 but might also end up with 2 billion.
In one game for example I replaced the stats ATK/DEF/ACC/EVA/MATK/MDEF with weapon types "Fist, Lance, Bow, Axe, Sword, Staff". Those stats didn't only work to increase the damage and accuracy, but also worked as defense and evasion against the weapon type.
Also I don't really care too much about high numbers. It always depends on the system on how high that end up. The smallest unit I start with when designed games is always "1" (or "10" in arcade game scores, the last digit always should represent the number of credits used) and then depending on the power growth system it might just end up with 20 but might also end up with 2 billion.
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