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CHOICEMAKING: CHARACTER RELATIONSHIPS
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Ilan14
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CloseWhen you make an RPG, do you prefer to predefine the main character -or any other
character- friendships and romances, or you prefer to make the player to forge
them by himself?
character- friendships and romances, or you prefer to make the player to forge
them by himself?
It completely depends on the type of game I'm making and how flexible the narrative is, and if I'm building the gameplay around that. Games that allow the player to control the main characters' relationships are a lot of fun, but also a lot more work.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I don't like silent protagonists, personally. Just being in control of a character 90% of the time is enough to make me empathize with them and bring their story to life; it doesn't have to be 100%. And too often, 100% control results in a less dramatic story. Results in a romance that's only there because I chose the right option, and not because the characters really love each-other. Results in a rivalry that I don't care about, because I can only see the anger and emotions of one of the two rivals.
Blank slate protagonists work great sometimes, though. And they probably work better on many other people who aren't me.
I'll tell you what I like even less, though, is when you try to mix the two. Games like Chrono Trigger and Dragon Age 2 don't really have silent protagonists. Crono and Hawke have their own personalities. You influence them, but they also do things without you telling them to. Crono doesn't speak... but he uses gestures and actions to communicate with and direct the other party members. Hawke says what you tell him to say... plus another sentence he came up with on his own. It comes off ringing false for the "this is you, you're in complete control" and breaks the illusion - leaving only the negative aspects of a silent protagonist without any of the benefits.
Blank slate protagonists work great sometimes, though. And they probably work better on many other people who aren't me.
I'll tell you what I like even less, though, is when you try to mix the two. Games like Chrono Trigger and Dragon Age 2 don't really have silent protagonists. Crono and Hawke have their own personalities. You influence them, but they also do things without you telling them to. Crono doesn't speak... but he uses gestures and actions to communicate with and direct the other party members. Hawke says what you tell him to say... plus another sentence he came up with on his own. It comes off ringing false for the "this is you, you're in complete control" and breaks the illusion - leaving only the negative aspects of a silent protagonist without any of the benefits.
Milennin
2060
I predefine the characters in my game because my main characters are from a comic thing I made. Giving too much freedom would break their personalities. Though, I do still give away some freedom to the player. Like, in my 1st game there was an option to befriend an important NPC character or to stay more distanced from her (which makes the game play out in completely different ways at some points). Also through dialogue choices I like to add options varying from regular replies to being cocky or something funny.
When playing other RPGs, I prefer having characters with predefined personalities and relationships, but having some choice is always nice of course.
When playing other RPGs, I prefer having characters with predefined personalities and relationships, but having some choice is always nice of course.
Aegix_Drakan
6037
I like to predefine my characters, but give them some leeway.
When it comes to romances, though, I prefer to have those not be influence. Makes them much easier to write.
Anytime I have "talking with characters" moments, I have them just to help you get to know the characters, not to try to "earn points" that put you into a romance/bromance with them.
As for when playing games, I tend to like characters with predefined personalities and only a few moments of choice when it's really important. (mind you if the main character is boring as hell, IM LOOKING AT YOU THE LEAST REMNANT, then I'd prefer a silent hero).
Also, on the subject, I'm really happy with how they portrayed the hero of Golden Sun 1 when he gets a voice in the second game, where you don't control him. Badass, reasonable, overall a heroic guy, basically just how I imagined him.
BTW, am I the only one who interpreted Crono as a well meaning, fun loving, slacker who was saving the world mostly because it was kinda fun? XD
When it comes to romances, though, I prefer to have those not be influence. Makes them much easier to write.
Anytime I have "talking with characters" moments, I have them just to help you get to know the characters, not to try to "earn points" that put you into a romance/bromance with them.
As for when playing games, I tend to like characters with predefined personalities and only a few moments of choice when it's really important. (mind you if the main character is boring as hell, IM LOOKING AT YOU THE LEAST REMNANT, then I'd prefer a silent hero).
Also, on the subject, I'm really happy with how they portrayed the hero of Golden Sun 1 when he gets a voice in the second game, where you don't control him. Badass, reasonable, overall a heroic guy, basically just how I imagined him.
BTW, am I the only one who interpreted Crono as a well meaning, fun loving, slacker who was saving the world mostly because it was kinda fun? XD
S32
100
Choice making is great; it gives your game replay value, gives the player more control, and can even make your game's world seem more organic. Of course, this is assuming there exists a rational amount of choices - too many branches or story arcs can cause the player to become more preoccupied with the choices they didn't make than the ones they did.
If I'm making a serious game, I generally like to make it so the amount of impact a player's choices have on the outcome is directly proportional to how much effort they put in. For example, making a couple of text-box choices getting you access to a mediocre item or something, versus going far out of your way on a multitude of intensely difficult side-quests to revive a dead hero and bring them back into the story. Like treasure, the most significant arcs should require the most effort.
If I'm making a serious game, I generally like to make it so the amount of impact a player's choices have on the outcome is directly proportional to how much effort they put in. For example, making a couple of text-box choices getting you access to a mediocre item or something, versus going far out of your way on a multitude of intensely difficult side-quests to revive a dead hero and bring them back into the story. Like treasure, the most significant arcs should require the most effort.
Crystalgate
694
In theory, this will improve the game. If I can choose who the main character ends up with and ideally also choose "no one" there's a lower chance the main character ends up with someone I don't care about. In practice however, this either takes a lot of extra dialogs or the relationship ends up watered down.
A common occurrence for games where you can choose love interest for the main character is that the relationship building happens outside the main story. The events during the main story then barely changes the dialogs to reflect the different relationships that could be going on, leaving the feeling that the relationships doesn't really exist. Sometimes the games employ tricks such a having every girl within one mile fall in love with the main character so that they will have the same feelings regardless of their actual relationships, thus eliminating the need of writing different dialogs, but that merely changes how the relationships are cheapened.
A common occurrence for games where you can choose love interest for the main character is that the relationship building happens outside the main story. The events during the main story then barely changes the dialogs to reflect the different relationships that could be going on, leaving the feeling that the relationships doesn't really exist. Sometimes the games employ tricks such a having every girl within one mile fall in love with the main character so that they will have the same feelings regardless of their actual relationships, thus eliminating the need of writing different dialogs, but that merely changes how the relationships are cheapened.
Shinan
4314
Used to be I wanted to create my own character fully but nowadays I've come to appreciate the directed existing character. Like how Geralt in the Witcher is a pre-defined character with a clear personality that you make choices for. Or how Shepherd has a kind of existing personality but you can guide her personality through the choices you make as a player.
It doesn't always work but especially today when all characters are voiced anyway it just feels weird not having the player character voiced and if the player character is voiced he or she will automatically have some personality. So I feel it's okay to let them have some autonomy. It also helps when player characters make incredibly stupid decisions that the player have no control over but at least it's "in character". Of course sometimes it's not and it fails horribly. (Like the main plot of Mass Effect 2)
It doesn't always work but especially today when all characters are voiced anyway it just feels weird not having the player character voiced and if the player character is voiced he or she will automatically have some personality. So I feel it's okay to let them have some autonomy. It also helps when player characters make incredibly stupid decisions that the player have no control over but at least it's "in character". Of course sometimes it's not and it fails horribly. (Like the main plot of Mass Effect 2)
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I come from a totally non-interactive writing background, so my primary focus is on character relationship and characterization.
I'm never as comfortable with sandboxy "blank slate" games, because even with the emphasis of "YOU CALL THE SHOTS!" there's always a "right" and "wrong" answer, and no real sense of subtlety or control in terms of relationship building. I don't feel that a total lack of choices is that great, but acknowledging that there's never going to be a truly free-choice relationship system in a game is necessary.
(And, of course, there's never REALLY any such thing as a blank slate character, because a writer is going to include and exclude certain options just by inherent human bias.)
I'm never as comfortable with sandboxy "blank slate" games, because even with the emphasis of "YOU CALL THE SHOTS!" there's always a "right" and "wrong" answer, and no real sense of subtlety or control in terms of relationship building. I don't feel that a total lack of choices is that great, but acknowledging that there's never going to be a truly free-choice relationship system in a game is necessary.
(And, of course, there's never REALLY any such thing as a blank slate character, because a writer is going to include and exclude certain options just by inherent human bias.)
Trujin
210
I guess it kind of depends on the overal concept of the game. If you are making a slow paced game with a developing worldstory you'd better make the characters interesting enough to keep on playing the game.
While if you made a really appealing world (take Zelda for example) you can make the player make more of their own choices.
You can also decide to only make the game mechanics costumizable, like skills/magic or something.
Like always it's just a matter of balancing things out.
While if you made a really appealing world (take Zelda for example) you can make the player make more of their own choices.
You can also decide to only make the game mechanics costumizable, like skills/magic or something.
Like always it's just a matter of balancing things out.
Desertopa
775
Out of all the video games I've played (which is quite a lot,) I have frankly never encountered one, no matter how sandboxy, which really let me play the main character as myself. Making a set of choices broad enough to cover every outside-the-box thinker who might play your game is impossible, at least as long as the games are still being designed by human beings.
I think that silent protagonists can be handy, not so much for making blank slate characters that the player can project any personality onto, but for making a fill-in-the-blanks style character where the player can make inferences about their personality from context, but can project their own interpretation of what best fits that context. If you want a character who's a cool, suave badass for instance, you might be better off making other characters react to them as if they were a cool, suave badass, and then let the player decide exactly what it is that they're really saying. I think the protagonist of Persona 4 is a particularly good example of this. But far from being a shortcut, I think making a really compelling character this way is probably a lot harder than doing so with characterization that's made explicit.
I think that silent protagonists can be handy, not so much for making blank slate characters that the player can project any personality onto, but for making a fill-in-the-blanks style character where the player can make inferences about their personality from context, but can project their own interpretation of what best fits that context. If you want a character who's a cool, suave badass for instance, you might be better off making other characters react to them as if they were a cool, suave badass, and then let the player decide exactly what it is that they're really saying. I think the protagonist of Persona 4 is a particularly good example of this. But far from being a shortcut, I think making a really compelling character this way is probably a lot harder than doing so with characterization that's made explicit.
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