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YOU BUY A PC / NOTEBOOK, YOU BUY AN OS
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Ody
0
Ody
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CloseHi guyz.
I'm going to buy a notebook (my PC is getting old and I want mobility :p) so, in the last weeks, I have made researches. And I think it could be interesting to talk about what is called - I'm not sure of the english word - "linked sale" ("gathered sale" maybe?); in fact, when you buy a PC or a notebook, you have to buy an operating system with, and often other softwares.
I don't really know what is the situation in the USA or UK, but in France justice is still passive regarding to this kind of practice. The law condemn it, but constructors (such as Dell, Acer, etc.) don't bother.
What do you think about it?
---------------
I have found a few shop-websites selling "nude notebooks", without OS. For example, http://www.zepto.com/ (I do want a Nox A15 :D). If you have good addresses, don't hesitate to mention them.
PS: I'm sorry for the mistakes.
I'm going to buy a notebook (my PC is getting old and I want mobility :p) so, in the last weeks, I have made researches. And I think it could be interesting to talk about what is called - I'm not sure of the english word - "linked sale" ("gathered sale" maybe?); in fact, when you buy a PC or a notebook, you have to buy an operating system with, and often other softwares.
I don't really know what is the situation in the USA or UK, but in France justice is still passive regarding to this kind of practice. The law condemn it, but constructors (such as Dell, Acer, etc.) don't bother.
What do you think about it?
---------------
I have found a few shop-websites selling "nude notebooks", without OS. For example, http://www.zepto.com/ (I do want a Nox A15 :D). If you have good addresses, don't hesitate to mention them.
PS: I'm sorry for the mistakes.
I'm not sure what you are talking about in the first paragraph. Usually, the OS comes "free" with the laptop.
As for shopping sites, I love www.newegg.com . They are very clear with their prices, also you can browse in many different modes. By processor, by size, be memory, and (my favorite) by price.
As for shopping sites, I love www.newegg.com . They are very clear with their prices, also you can browse in many different modes. By processor, by size, be memory, and (my favorite) by price.
Ody
0
the OS comes "free" with the laptop.
You mean, the OS is included in the price, no ? :P
A Windows licence, for example, is never free. But you may want to buy a laptop without the OS (it will be, therefore, cheaper !).
And thanks for the URL, this website looks nice. However, I have quickly checked it and all the notebooks come with OS... bad bad bad. ^^
Jabbo
140
It's a lot harder to get a laptop without an OS than it is to get a PC without one, mainly because PCs you can build yourself, and laptops you really can't. So if you're looking for a laptop you'll probably have to take what you can get. I did find this, though:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
Scroll down to where it says "No-OS, Computers without Operating System"
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
Scroll down to where it says "No-OS, Computers without Operating System"
Ody
0
You're right, sadly the websites offering to configure the laptops (CPU, ram, HDD, etc.) are scarce... Thank you for the link, this is a really complete list (I hope I will be able to buy from them :p).
But what is exactly the law in your country? (yes I'm curious xD). Is this illegal for the shops to refuse the payback of the OS when it is asked by the customer?
But what is exactly the law in your country? (yes I'm curious xD). Is this illegal for the shops to refuse the payback of the OS when it is asked by the customer?
Jabbo
140
I remember seeing somewhere that awhile ago Microsoft actually set up a contract with IBM stating that all IBM machines sold must contain Windows. That was before the monopoly stuff so I don't know if it's still in place, but I'd be surprised if Microsoft didn't have some sort of ridiculous contract with all the major computer manufacturers just to make things difficult.
Ody
0
@ankylo : $100, add perhaps $50-60 for Norton antivirus or MS Office... For a $600/800 notebook it's quite huge, don't you think. :p
Of course, for inexperimented users, the pre-installed OS is easier. But what about the payback for those who doesn't want it? It could be an alternative way. Or perhaps an activation code, I don't know. Consumers still are sheeps to me. :x
And what about Linux ? :p Kubuntu for example is really easy to use, even for beginner. There is a lack of information toward the public.
The only way seams to go to the tribunal and pay a lawyer. xD
@Jabbo : Yup. :o
Of course, for inexperimented users, the pre-installed OS is easier. But what about the payback for those who doesn't want it? It could be an alternative way. Or perhaps an activation code, I don't know. Consumers still are sheeps to me. :x
And what about Linux ? :p Kubuntu for example is really easy to use, even for beginner. There is a lack of information toward the public.
I would imagine if you complained enough you could get them to sell you a laptop without an OS.
The only way seams to go to the tribunal and pay a lawyer. xD
@Jabbo : Yup. :o
author=Ody link=topic=1515.msg23722#msg23722 date=1215976179
@ankylo : $100, add perhaps $50-60 for Norton antivirus or MS Office... For a $600/800 notebook it's quite huge, don't you think. :p
Of course, for inexperimented users, the pre-installed OS is easier. But what about the payback for those who doesn't want it? It could be an alternative way. Or perhaps an activation code, I don't know. Consumers still are sheeps to me. :x
Most Windows PC/laptops today don't even come with the OS discs... you have to use a recovery manager to reinstall. I know most of the big vendors do this to lower costs. MS Office is usually just a trial now, and so is the anti-virus.
If you don't want it, don't buy it. You don't get anything off your hamburger at McDonalds if you don't want pickles.
Ody
0
Most Windows PC/laptops today don't even come with the OS discs... you have to use a recovery manager to reinstall. I know most of the big vendors do this to lower costs.
The price of a Windows licence is what is expensive. And having the CD allow you to re-install easily your system.
If you don't want it, don't buy it. You don't get anything off your hamburger at McDonalds if you don't want pickles.
It's radically not the same thing. When you buy a car, you can't buy it without the wheels. But a hardware + software, the matter is different. Think of the guy that have bought a pc with Windows XP, and now wants another computer ; He has to buy Vista with, even if he doesn't want it... More, the price of the OS is often and even not displayed, so the competition can't run fairly. It's because of this practice that most of the people think that a PC can't run without Windows and that's why Microsoft had make incredible profit too. Just oblige the vendors to put the price of the OS with the price of the computers, and people will begin to be interested in free solutions such as Linux. :)
Uh, what vendor are you using that makes you buy Office and Norton? Those things are almost ALWAYS trials and you can (unless you walk into a store and buy it) configure the system without it. Look on Dell's Website, configure a Laptop to buy, you don't have to get Office, or Anti-Virus. Although they do try to sell you a lot of crap, you don't have to buy it!
Office and Norton were examples : I could have said PowerDVD, Works... Yes, they are often trials but what I want to say is that you don't know exactly the price of what you buy. Dell is a really bad choice, all they pc are too expensive regarding to other trademarks. So you get $50 without Windows when you should get near the twice. Also, the possibility of having Ubuntu instead of Windows do not concern all of their offers...
Finally : you have the RIGHT to buy a pc without OS. Any pc. Therefore things must change, because at this time you have to chose between a restricted number of vendors and computers. :o
By the way, I think I'll get a Zepto Nox A15 soon (nVidia 9600 GT o/). :D
author=Ody link=topic=1515.msg23779#msg23779 date=1216019297
Stuff.
OEM Windows licenses are actually pretty cheap. The price you pay towards Windows in a PC/laptop purchase is heavily subsidized. So when you only get a $50 discount for not including Windows on your system, don't be surprised.
You have a right to buy whatever you like, but business also have rights to bundle products together as makes sense. Dell was innovative in that it was one of the first PC manufacturers to let you configure you system, but it is by no means a right you should expect from every vendor. If you buy your PC in the (non-Apple) stores you will see 100% Windows based systems because that is about the percentage of consumers who use Windows.
The reason there is not more PC/laptop configurations with Linux or open source products is, well, there isn't really much of a market for that yet (though it is growing... slowly).
If you really want to see archaic options and lack of choices, buy a Mac!
author=ankylo link=topic=1515.msg23835#msg23835 date=1216068535
Really? HP? IBM/Lenovo? Do they have better prices than Dell?
After some shopping for a new notebook, I completely agree Dell is overpriced. All of Dell's notebooks cost more than other makes with similar specs. Hell even with a discount code for 20% off certain systems other makes were still better buys (unless a C2D T5850 over a C2D T5550 is worth $100)
I can't say anything about Desktops. I hear Dell is great for the extremely cheap builds (~$350 for a standalone computer) but that's it.
Hm, well, my Dell was relatively inexpensive mainly because I found an incredibly coupon from couponmountain.com that took off several hundred dollars under the condition the laptop was over a certain amount. Well, I just found a good laptop and upgraded it until it reached that price, and watch it fall back to the original. :-P Except this time, with status boosts!
Ody
0
@Holbert : Yep, it's possible that the prices are not the same in our respective countries...
Here is a quote of prices for Vista I took from one website, it's near the same everywhere on the shops where I usually buy informatic stuff. But these prices are for a configurable notebook, so perhaps the Windows included in a laptop are sold a bit cheaper.
(From pcworld.com I have read "The cheapest way for current Windows XP users to get a legal copy of Vista is to buy the upgrade version of Home Basic, which is $99".)
It's exactly the point I wanted to mention: in France, the law says that you can. :P And there are associations fighting to have this right actually applied (but government is passive). However the law is even not necessary: the licence of Windows itself allows you to be refunded if you do not want to buy it (whatever the vendor).
A good article to read
Of course, everyone thinking a pc come necessarily with Windows. :P
@ankylo: I just looked at the prices :o for 1200 euros at Dell I have a quite good laptop but Acer, Asus, Toshiba, MSI are selling greater laptop for the same price.
---------------
EDIT:
Quote from the administrator of Linux.com :
"Tying (Requiring that you purchase one product when you buy another product) is illegal. If they say that you MUST buy Windows when you buy a DEL XF-10000 then they're breaking the law.
Windows and your PC are two completely different products. It's too difficult to deliver a car without tires, so you could say that tires are required -- but, even then, most car dealers will allow you to ask for non-standard tires on your car if you get it from the factory (rather than off the lot).
Just having that wording in their license and not having an option to purchase their various models without Windows is probably enough for someone to file a lawsuit.
It's just too expensive for most people to file a lawsuit over this."
Actually the law seams to be the same in the USA or in France. :P
Microsoft® Windows® Vista Ultimate- FRA 32bit
+ 215,85 €
Microsoft® Windows® Vista Business- FRA 32bit
+ 134,71 €
Microsoft® Windows® Vista Home Premium- FRA 32bit
+ 119,63 €
Microsoft® Windows® Vista Home Basic- FRA 32bit
+ 86,60 €
Here is a quote of prices for Vista I took from one website, it's near the same everywhere on the shops where I usually buy informatic stuff. But these prices are for a configurable notebook, so perhaps the Windows included in a laptop are sold a bit cheaper.
(From pcworld.com I have read "The cheapest way for current Windows XP users to get a legal copy of Vista is to buy the upgrade version of Home Basic, which is $99".)
Holbert
but it is by no means a right you should expect from every vendor
It's exactly the point I wanted to mention: in France, the law says that you can. :P And there are associations fighting to have this right actually applied (but government is passive). However the law is even not necessary: the licence of Windows itself allows you to be refunded if you do not want to buy it (whatever the vendor).
A good article to read
Holbert
there isn't really much of a market for that yet
Of course, everyone thinking a pc come necessarily with Windows. :P
@ankylo: I just looked at the prices :o for 1200 euros at Dell I have a quite good laptop but Acer, Asus, Toshiba, MSI are selling greater laptop for the same price.
---------------
EDIT:
Quote from the administrator of Linux.com :
"Tying (Requiring that you purchase one product when you buy another product) is illegal. If they say that you MUST buy Windows when you buy a DEL XF-10000 then they're breaking the law.
Windows and your PC are two completely different products. It's too difficult to deliver a car without tires, so you could say that tires are required -- but, even then, most car dealers will allow you to ask for non-standard tires on your car if you get it from the factory (rather than off the lot).
Just having that wording in their license and not having an option to purchase their various models without Windows is probably enough for someone to file a lawsuit.
It's just too expensive for most people to file a lawsuit over this."
Actually the law seams to be the same in the USA or in France. :P
maladroithim
1495
author=YummyDrumsticks link=topic=1515.msg23892#msg23892 date=1216094063
Well, I just found a good laptop and upgraded it until it reached that price, and watch it fall back to the original. :-P Except this time, with status boosts!
Cast Haste!
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