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GAME DESIGN DISCUSSION OF THE WEEK: STATUS EFFECTS
Posts
Jabbo
140
Jabbo
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CloseIt seems like status effects in RPGs are an amazingly difficult gameplay point to actually get working properly. Everyone would agree that they add a lot of gameplay depth, due to having status-effect oriented monsters, equips that prevent them, spell variety, et cetera.
But it always seems like there's only one or two monsters in the game that even deal with certain status effects. Why bother having a berserk if only one enemy can berserk you? Too many status effects is a bad thing, because each one seems so foreign when it happens. Then there's the deal of too many status-effect cure items, and too many spells. Or the dreadful "Cures level one status effects" spells where you never quite know if the status effect you want to cure is level one or level two.
But too few status effects is boring. And the player rarely ever gets to use cool status effect spells effectively.
So what are some thoughts on this? How many status effects is the right amount? How do you like your status effect cure items/spells? Should status effects stay after battle? Player spells that cause status effects: can they be done without breaking game balance?
But it always seems like there's only one or two monsters in the game that even deal with certain status effects. Why bother having a berserk if only one enemy can berserk you? Too many status effects is a bad thing, because each one seems so foreign when it happens. Then there's the deal of too many status-effect cure items, and too many spells. Or the dreadful "Cures level one status effects" spells where you never quite know if the status effect you want to cure is level one or level two.
But too few status effects is boring. And the player rarely ever gets to use cool status effect spells effectively.
So what are some thoughts on this? How many status effects is the right amount? How do you like your status effect cure items/spells? Should status effects stay after battle? Player spells that cause status effects: can they be done without breaking game balance?
Status effects can generally be boiled down to a few categories:
1) Immobilization effects
2) Stat modification
3) health/energy draining (or regen)
4) loss-of-player-control effects (berserk, confuse)
I think that (1) and (2) tend to be abused, especially (1) - people have a 'Sleep' and 'Stunned' and 'Paralyzed' and 'Petrified' and 'Frozen' and 'Laughing' and 'Numb' etc... statuses that all do essentially the same thing: prevents a character from acting. The only differences would probably be around the duration.
If I was going to whittle down some status effects, I'd start by removing/combining that type of status.
I'd also consider dropping some of the individual stat doubling and halving and boosting and lowering statuses - how many ways of improving STR does one need?
That being said, I am very guilty of making FAR too many status effects in my Rm2k3 games. I have like 41 in Hero's Realm. That's way too many. I think 20 is much more reasonable.
As to status curing, I try limit it to 1 cure-all-statuses item or spell, available relatively early in the game, with maybe 2 other specific cure items (like Antidote). Having to use a turn to cure a status is cost enough, without asking the player to memorize that Dragon Root cures Discord (or some other obscure combination of cure and affliction).
1) Immobilization effects
2) Stat modification
3) health/energy draining (or regen)
4) loss-of-player-control effects (berserk, confuse)
I think that (1) and (2) tend to be abused, especially (1) - people have a 'Sleep' and 'Stunned' and 'Paralyzed' and 'Petrified' and 'Frozen' and 'Laughing' and 'Numb' etc... statuses that all do essentially the same thing: prevents a character from acting. The only differences would probably be around the duration.
If I was going to whittle down some status effects, I'd start by removing/combining that type of status.
I'd also consider dropping some of the individual stat doubling and halving and boosting and lowering statuses - how many ways of improving STR does one need?
That being said, I am very guilty of making FAR too many status effects in my Rm2k3 games. I have like 41 in Hero's Realm. That's way too many. I think 20 is much more reasonable.
As to status curing, I try limit it to 1 cure-all-statuses item or spell, available relatively early in the game, with maybe 2 other specific cure items (like Antidote). Having to use a turn to cure a status is cost enough, without asking the player to memorize that Dragon Root cures Discord (or some other obscure combination of cure and affliction).
I think any amount you want is the correct amount, as long as there is a healing item or spell that can cure you and it's not too hard to get hold of.
It's all about variation. I think people take it too far when you have: Poison, Bleed, Heavy Bleed which basically do the same thing anyway. Theres also helpful status effects, so don't forget them!
If you do really want to have loads of status effects, have them disappear after battle, it's less confusing for the player. My game has 18, which I think is a good amount.
It's all about variation. I think people take it too far when you have: Poison, Bleed, Heavy Bleed which basically do the same thing anyway. Theres also helpful status effects, so don't forget them!
If you do really want to have loads of status effects, have them disappear after battle, it's less confusing for the player. My game has 18, which I think is a good amount.
Kentona's mostly right, but he did miss out on some effects like silence and blind.
I'm not much better at making good status effects. I've got a basic eight (nine counting being dead) which are healed by specific healing items or a general healing spell. Then the half/double effects. Everything that falls into the four categories (except Blind and Silence). I do use some more exotic status effects, but most are just combinations of the basic ones. For example, 'cnstrict' immobilizes a character and drains their HP, but you don't see it as often as the other conditions and it lasts a shorter duration too.
The real problem with status effects is balancing them. Poison murders high HP bosses (especially in Rm2k3 where any action counts as a turn), and the only counterbalance 99% of games use is to make it the bosses easy kill method or to have a 0.01% chance of getting poisoned. One alternative would be to have multiple poison status effects. One that does 10% of max hp damage, and one that does 1%. The 10% is what the player and regular enemies are vulnerable to, while the 1% is what the bosses are weak to. It is kinda cheating since the bosses are playing with a different set of rules than everybody else, but I think its a fair compromise of having bosses vulnerable to status effects and not get wasted by them.
I'm not much better at making good status effects. I've got a basic eight (nine counting being dead) which are healed by specific healing items or a general healing spell. Then the half/double effects. Everything that falls into the four categories (except Blind and Silence). I do use some more exotic status effects, but most are just combinations of the basic ones. For example, 'cnstrict' immobilizes a character and drains their HP, but you don't see it as often as the other conditions and it lasts a shorter duration too.
The real problem with status effects is balancing them. Poison murders high HP bosses (especially in Rm2k3 where any action counts as a turn), and the only counterbalance 99% of games use is to make it the bosses easy kill method or to have a 0.01% chance of getting poisoned. One alternative would be to have multiple poison status effects. One that does 10% of max hp damage, and one that does 1%. The 10% is what the player and regular enemies are vulnerable to, while the 1% is what the bosses are weak to. It is kinda cheating since the bosses are playing with a different set of rules than everybody else, but I think its a fair compromise of having bosses vulnerable to status effects and not get wasted by them.
Ashramaru
39
So what are some thoughts on this?:In terms of Status Effects, I have 10 Main Status Effects with 3 Degrees: Minor, Moderate, Critical. I picked this up from The Way, basically increasing the severity of the Status Effect the longer a battle drags on. In terms of Status Effect affecting gameplay NotBrickRoad took this to heart, the Status Effects in KC were deadly and annoying, but honest to goodness I loved them because they made you think, as well as caused you to be a bit cautious in terms of purchasing Equipment. Sure one Armor is stronger than another. But one provided protection against Poison and one doesn't. If Status Effects possess heavy penalties to players they offer a whole new meaning to the term RPG, perhaps even brings to mind the use of Survival RPG if Status Effects become a critical foe in battles.
How many status effects is the right amount?:There is no right amount, I have 30 Total in my game, more or less is up to the creator.
How do you like your status effect cure items/spells?: I like them in small numbers with various upgrades if a Skill Leveling System is implemented.
Should status effects stay after battle?: I feel as if Status Effects should last after battle to increase difficulty.
Player spells that cause status effects: I have them, however I believe things such a Poison and such should only be utilized through a Realistic Approach. If you have a Poison Dagger then by all means add a chance of obtaining poison from enemies, however if you have a spell called "Poison" how the hell does that actually poison an enemy?
can they be done without breaking game balance?: Yes, I am experimenting with such in The Last Bible. Basically a Virus Status Effect is a main part of the game. The Virus is actually a center piece in the story and if you contract it you must press to cure it before you are killed. Like I mentioned above there will be equipment and ways to ward off the Virus, however if you do not possess such things could get difficult in battle. From not being able to control some party members to simply having you Allies slaughtering one another and yourself.
How many status effects is the right amount?:There is no right amount, I have 30 Total in my game, more or less is up to the creator.
How do you like your status effect cure items/spells?: I like them in small numbers with various upgrades if a Skill Leveling System is implemented.
Should status effects stay after battle?: I feel as if Status Effects should last after battle to increase difficulty.
Player spells that cause status effects: I have them, however I believe things such a Poison and such should only be utilized through a Realistic Approach. If you have a Poison Dagger then by all means add a chance of obtaining poison from enemies, however if you have a spell called "Poison" how the hell does that actually poison an enemy?
can they be done without breaking game balance?: Yes, I am experimenting with such in The Last Bible. Basically a Virus Status Effect is a main part of the game. The Virus is actually a center piece in the story and if you contract it you must press to cure it before you are killed. Like I mentioned above there will be equipment and ways to ward off the Virus, however if you do not possess such things could get difficult in battle. From not being able to control some party members to simply having you Allies slaughtering one another and yourself.
Euphorian
80
I only have one status condition. I'll add more if I think of or find a need for them, but I don't.
Said condition makes stats go into overdrive for a set number of turns, and then auto-kills the target, so it's a double edged sword.
I just don't see the need for a ton of them.
Said condition makes stats go into overdrive for a set number of turns, and then auto-kills the target, so it's a double edged sword.
I just don't see the need for a ton of them.
Only useful thing to add is that effects need to have a dramatic enough effect to justify their existence. In a turn-based battle system, each turn is precious, so status effects need a reason to exist over straight damage abilities. Especially straight damage abilities that hit all enemies, can be used right away, and typically 1-shot everything. :P
And yeah, only 1 curing mechanism is needed. Well 2... 1 item and 1 spell.
And yeah, only 1 curing mechanism is needed. Well 2... 1 item and 1 spell.
I think status problems are overlooked a lot in RPGs. I can still remember a time in Final Fantasy 2 when I used a high-level all-hitting Stun spell on a big group of common monsters. About a fourth of them got stunned, and they all recovered the very next turn. Meanwhile, the same character who cast the spell could've one-shotted them with a physical attack just as easily. Ugh...
I've tried to make status problems more significant in my games. There's a fairly wide variety of them, although most still fall under the categories Kentona mentioned. I try to make them more useful by actually having monsters vulnerable to them and making their effects greater and longer-lasting. Weaker status effects have a 1 in 2 chance of wearing off each turn in battle, whereas stronger ones only wear off 1 in 4. Also, all common enemies have a 1 in 2 chance of being afflicted by a status problem, but minibosses only have a 1 in 4 chance (and bosses are immune!). Heroes are also affected 1 in 2 times, but they can cure most things with a few healing spells or select healing items. I don't make as many items as there are status problems, though. I only make items for the ones that don't wear off quickly, and throw in the expensive cover-all Miracle Cure for the rest.
So far, it's worked out pretty well. It's easy to nerf a status problem so much that it stops being a hindrance at all, and that's what I try to avoid. Sure, they might upset the game balance, but...aren't they supposed to shake things up anyway?
I've tried to make status problems more significant in my games. There's a fairly wide variety of them, although most still fall under the categories Kentona mentioned. I try to make them more useful by actually having monsters vulnerable to them and making their effects greater and longer-lasting. Weaker status effects have a 1 in 2 chance of wearing off each turn in battle, whereas stronger ones only wear off 1 in 4. Also, all common enemies have a 1 in 2 chance of being afflicted by a status problem, but minibosses only have a 1 in 4 chance (and bosses are immune!). Heroes are also affected 1 in 2 times, but they can cure most things with a few healing spells or select healing items. I don't make as many items as there are status problems, though. I only make items for the ones that don't wear off quickly, and throw in the expensive cover-all Miracle Cure for the rest.
So far, it's worked out pretty well. It's easy to nerf a status problem so much that it stops being a hindrance at all, and that's what I try to avoid. Sure, they might upset the game balance, but...aren't they supposed to shake things up anyway?
Final Fantasy X handled status effects really well, mainly because status effects actually WORKED. A lot. The game encouraged you to use status effects on different kinds of enemies; blind on strong monsters, poison on monsters with high HP, Silence on magic users, and so on. Of course it's more difficult than that, since monsters will try to obstruct you from doing so and cure themselves, but using status effects is so effective you're shocked when they don't work.
-Poison will fucking kill you (and the enemies) in like, 4 turns unless it's taken care of. Facing an enemy with 10 times more HP then one normally would? Poison that fucker.
-Blind is a lifesaver. There are quite a few enemies that are so physically strong they just flat out kill you in one hit. What to do? Blind it, and he'll be lucky to get 2-3 hits in a ten minute battle. Of course, that applies to you to, your attacker getting hit with Blind makes him useless until it's cured.
-Confusing is always usually pretty annoying in RPGs, but sometimes not too deadly because your characters Def operated differently from monster defense, meaning that in some RPGs, your own characters hitting each other wasn't that bad because they did like 10 damage or something. In FFX, a confused Auron or Wakka usually means everyone is fucked. Exact same principle applied to enemies as well.
-Silence was more deadly to the enemies than you, because only spellcasters (like Yuna and Lulu) were hindered by it significantly, but since a lot of magic using monsters in FFX were weak to Silence, that pretty much made them helpless.
-And Sleep just fucks everyone up.
-Poison will fucking kill you (and the enemies) in like, 4 turns unless it's taken care of. Facing an enemy with 10 times more HP then one normally would? Poison that fucker.
-Blind is a lifesaver. There are quite a few enemies that are so physically strong they just flat out kill you in one hit. What to do? Blind it, and he'll be lucky to get 2-3 hits in a ten minute battle. Of course, that applies to you to, your attacker getting hit with Blind makes him useless until it's cured.
-Confusing is always usually pretty annoying in RPGs, but sometimes not too deadly because your characters Def operated differently from monster defense, meaning that in some RPGs, your own characters hitting each other wasn't that bad because they did like 10 damage or something. In FFX, a confused Auron or Wakka usually means everyone is fucked. Exact same principle applied to enemies as well.
-Silence was more deadly to the enemies than you, because only spellcasters (like Yuna and Lulu) were hindered by it significantly, but since a lot of magic using monsters in FFX were weak to Silence, that pretty much made them helpless.
-And Sleep just fucks everyone up.
Jabbo
140
Personally I love using status effects on enemies... putting a heavy-hitting boss under blind is basically the best feeling in the world. The big question here though is whether this is a reward to the player for strategic thinking or is it just the "cheap way to kill the boss" that most people don't catch onto on the first playthrough. Some sort of clue would be nice.
I think a good, small set of status effects, one for each thing is probably the best. Something like Poison, Blind, Sleep, Silence, and another game-specific one. Then you can do multiple tiers of each, like Poison, Heavy Poison, and Lethal Poison, and have the same item/spells cure (or reduce?) each. That way you don't have to make a concession to the player with a panacea item/spell.
For the game-specific one you should have something that manipulates your battle system specifically or just a cool idea, like Euphorian's, or Zombie from KC. Example here = The Way's XL-Drain status effect directly manipulating your XL gain (which should have been more prevalent in my opinion).
And really, Attack Up/Attack Down/Stone Skin/Haste/Slow/etc... don't really need to be status effects. You can just do stat mods during battle. Also beneficial status effects don't really count.
And I HATE confusion. As cool an idea as it is, I've never seen it as a challenge so much as a pain in the ass.
What about prevention equipment? Aside from the Ribbon et al, I rarely ever equip prevention items unless I keep getting slammed with the same condition over and over. Fewer status effects might make these more useful (Equip the silence preventer on your spellcaster, anti-poison on your tank, etc). Or maybe have items that prevent 2-3 of them, which isn't that hard to do if you only have about 5. It's also cool when you have an entire inventory slot dedicated to status prevention (instead of choosing between it and 2x attack power... attack power please, unless status effects really, REALLY suck)
The granularity of a turn is also an issue. Curing or putting a status effect basically takes forever in a short battle. I guess this leans toward "Fewer, bigger, battles" if you want your status effects to accomplish anything. Actually everything we've talked about since I started posting seems to point to a smaller number of bigger battles. I wonder if that means something.
I think a good, small set of status effects, one for each thing is probably the best. Something like Poison, Blind, Sleep, Silence, and another game-specific one. Then you can do multiple tiers of each, like Poison, Heavy Poison, and Lethal Poison, and have the same item/spells cure (or reduce?) each. That way you don't have to make a concession to the player with a panacea item/spell.
For the game-specific one you should have something that manipulates your battle system specifically or just a cool idea, like Euphorian's, or Zombie from KC. Example here = The Way's XL-Drain status effect directly manipulating your XL gain (which should have been more prevalent in my opinion).
And really, Attack Up/Attack Down/Stone Skin/Haste/Slow/etc... don't really need to be status effects. You can just do stat mods during battle. Also beneficial status effects don't really count.
And I HATE confusion. As cool an idea as it is, I've never seen it as a challenge so much as a pain in the ass.
What about prevention equipment? Aside from the Ribbon et al, I rarely ever equip prevention items unless I keep getting slammed with the same condition over and over. Fewer status effects might make these more useful (Equip the silence preventer on your spellcaster, anti-poison on your tank, etc). Or maybe have items that prevent 2-3 of them, which isn't that hard to do if you only have about 5. It's also cool when you have an entire inventory slot dedicated to status prevention (instead of choosing between it and 2x attack power... attack power please, unless status effects really, REALLY suck)
The granularity of a turn is also an issue. Curing or putting a status effect basically takes forever in a short battle. I guess this leans toward "Fewer, bigger, battles" if you want your status effects to accomplish anything. Actually everything we've talked about since I started posting seems to point to a smaller number of bigger battles. I wonder if that means something.
And really, Attack Up/Attack Down/Stone Skin/Haste/Slow/etc... don't really need to be status effects. You can just do stat mods during battle.
RPG Maker sucks at this. Stat mods aren't consistent and are hard to keep track of for the program and the player. Trust me, I've tried. The best way to do is IS to make them status effects.
Jabbo
140
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=1529.msg24011#msg24011 date=1216232322And really, Attack Up/Attack Down/Stone Skin/Haste/Slow/etc... don't really need to be status effects. You can just do stat mods during battle.
RPG Maker sucks at this. Stat mods aren't consistent and are hard to keep track of for the program and the player. Trust me, I've tried. The best way to do is IS to make them status effects.
Well that's kinda lame. Now that I think about it, though, it doesn't really matter either way, except for the fact that stat mods can stack and status effects can't.
Here's the thing.
Let's take two things, Haste, a status that makes you twice as fast, and Speed Up, a stat mod that adds 20 points to Agility.
Now, since it's a static status, Haste will make you 2x faster, period. One casting, and that's 2x Speed for however long. Speed Up, however, just adds 20 points to Agility. Assuming that the character in question has 100 Agility, that's quite a few castings of Speed Up to make it even comparable to Haste, using up MP, tying up the casters turns for a few rounds, and hell, you can't even keep track of it. Not to mention that after a while and as you get more powerful, 20 points to X stat after a while won't mean shit.
Yes, stat mods do have their place (for example when you want to make a skill that isn't as a strong/potent as Status), and they should be used (FFX also did this well), but they're certainly not on the same field as Statuses.
Let's take two things, Haste, a status that makes you twice as fast, and Speed Up, a stat mod that adds 20 points to Agility.
Now, since it's a static status, Haste will make you 2x faster, period. One casting, and that's 2x Speed for however long. Speed Up, however, just adds 20 points to Agility. Assuming that the character in question has 100 Agility, that's quite a few castings of Speed Up to make it even comparable to Haste, using up MP, tying up the casters turns for a few rounds, and hell, you can't even keep track of it. Not to mention that after a while and as you get more powerful, 20 points to X stat after a while won't mean shit.
Yes, stat mods do have their place (for example when you want to make a skill that isn't as a strong/potent as Status), and they should be used (FFX also did this well), but they're certainly not on the same field as Statuses.
I love the Confusion status. It makes things interesting, and it's one of the few status afflictions that make me really worried to get it cured (because a confused Fighter can fuck you up).
Furthermore, it kind of does act like an immobilizer - you can't control that character until he is cured. There's just an extra penalty of that character attacking his own party.
Also, the Confusion skill in Diablo 2 was super helpful.
Furthermore, it kind of does act like an immobilizer - you can't control that character until he is cured. There's just an extra penalty of that character attacking his own party.
Also, the Confusion skill in Diablo 2 was super helpful.
One advantage to stat mods is that they can't be dispelled like status effects can, but making AI that can actually dispel buffs at the right times is a pain to implement so it is a moot point.
And didn't Rm2k stat mods have an upper limit? I don't think you can keep using Attack+20 over and over again until you hit 999 attack. Something worth checking out.
And didn't Rm2k stat mods have an upper limit? I don't think you can keep using Attack+20 over and over again until you hit 999 attack. Something worth checking out.
Jabbo
140
Well I guess I'm not generally speaking from an RPG Maker perspective, since I don't actually use RPG Maker. So if you actually make your own formulas and you want a Haste you can just edit the spell so it boosts your speed by 50%... of course I think the whole Haste thing is always ridiculously overpowered anyway.
My problem with Confuse is that a lot of times there's no way to heal it so you just have to sit there and slog it out. Or your one character that knows the confusion heal spell gets confused (big deal, they're a mage), but while they're confused your fighter ALSO gets confused and then while he's busy slaughtering your party your other members get confused too. Or just die. Confusion always seems to result in unstoppable death in most of the games I've played.
My problem with Confuse is that a lot of times there's no way to heal it so you just have to sit there and slog it out. Or your one character that knows the confusion heal spell gets confused (big deal, they're a mage), but while they're confused your fighter ALSO gets confused and then while he's busy slaughtering your party your other members get confused too. Or just die. Confusion always seems to result in unstoppable death in most of the games I've played.
Dis
0
This is a good topic.
I'll put in my two cents and say that in my opinion, it's not only the types of status effects you or your enemies can produce, but how you can use them to make the player think more tactical about the way they are battling.
IE:(This is an actual example from my project) You're party is overpowered by a high level monster that if attacks you, you're probably going to or suffer a world of hurt. While most player will think that increasing your level will help in this occassion (Which it will), there's a way to kill it at your current level. A poison/paralysis combo will do the job nicely in this situation. Which obviously immobilizes the foe for a few turns while its Hp slowly diminishes. Repeat the paralysis apell several times and you just took out a level 12 monster at level 6. =)
IE2:You're up against a boss that is resilient to weapons. You cast your magics on the enemy until it uses a total attack skill that both poisons and berserks you. This boss also ONLY uses magical techniques. Combine that with its very high level defense and the fact that berserk is only healed by a physical attack or item/spell, and you're screwed. It doesn't matter what level you're on, if he lives long enough to get off this combo and you don't have berserk protection, you can't win. (Good idea for a bonus boss... a little too difficult for a manditory one)
You can use small little combinations like this to make good use of status effects without having to create some complicated "Disease" condition or something that the player won't even remember.
I'll put in my two cents and say that in my opinion, it's not only the types of status effects you or your enemies can produce, but how you can use them to make the player think more tactical about the way they are battling.
IE:(This is an actual example from my project) You're party is overpowered by a high level monster that if attacks you, you're probably going to or suffer a world of hurt. While most player will think that increasing your level will help in this occassion (Which it will), there's a way to kill it at your current level. A poison/paralysis combo will do the job nicely in this situation. Which obviously immobilizes the foe for a few turns while its Hp slowly diminishes. Repeat the paralysis apell several times and you just took out a level 12 monster at level 6. =)
IE2:You're up against a boss that is resilient to weapons. You cast your magics on the enemy until it uses a total attack skill that both poisons and berserks you. This boss also ONLY uses magical techniques. Combine that with its very high level defense and the fact that berserk is only healed by a physical attack or item/spell, and you're screwed. It doesn't matter what level you're on, if he lives long enough to get off this combo and you don't have berserk protection, you can't win. (Good idea for a bonus boss... a little too difficult for a manditory one)
You can use small little combinations like this to make good use of status effects without having to create some complicated "Disease" condition or something that the player won't even remember.
author=Jabbo link=topic=1529.msg24048#msg24048 date=1216246448I once made a mini-boss that had a move that could Confuse the whole party...he was really tough. He only stopped using the move when he was below half his health, so it was like a race to beat him up before he confused everybody. But, then again, I had an item that cures confusion and a character with a spell that can, too, so unless you're really unlucky, on average just 2/4 heroes would be confused and the other two could fix it instantly.
My problem with Confuse is that a lot of times there's no way to heal it so you just have to sit there and slog it out. Or your one character that knows the confusion heal spell gets confused (big deal, they're a mage), but while they're confused your fighter ALSO gets confused and then while he's busy slaughtering your party your other members get confused too. Or just die. Confusion always seems to result in unstoppable death in most of the games I've played.
The key to beating confusion, and most status problems for that matter (besides luck), is keeping them under control. Don't let things get out of hand, no matter how insignificant it might seem at the moment.
