Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
COPYRIGHT FEAR?
Posts
Pages:
1
UmbrotheUmbreon
View playlists
CloseI've always been hesitant on uploading my creations to the internet. This fear I have, probably irrational, is that someone will take and copyright my personal work, and turn it into something great. I guess the thought of someone making popularity out of my work and getting credit always struck me as intensely painful to the point I have never uploaded personal work.
Is this fear as irrational as it seems? I want to show my work to the world, but I'm scared of being scammed out of it =/
Is this fear as irrational as it seems? I want to show my work to the world, but I'm scared of being scammed out of it =/
fdelapena
180
This fear is induced by the industry. First, in almost any country people has copyright of any own creation automatically. Second, take a look to the Creative Commons and the Free Software philosophy, learn about the Copyleft concept. They will help you to understand why sharing and mixing is good. Finally, check the "Everything is a remix" video series to understand why the truly original work does not exist. After these you'll get relieved about sharing your creations and even allow redistribution and modifications, because it benefits you (and makes Copyright industry cry).
RyaReisender
200
I think what you mean is "copy" or rather "steal" when you say "coyyright". You are afraid of your creations being stolen.
Copyright fear is rather if YOU are stealing stuff from others and are scared of a lawsuit. ;-)
Anyway, to some extend I have fear of my ideas being stolen, however, if someone actually made something great of it that wouldn't be too bad. Because, you see, I design games because I actually want to play them and not because I want to earn lots of money with them. So someone using my ideas and creating the perfect game out of it, is simply me saving work. My bigger fear is someone using the ideas and totally ruining them.
Really the game market is just too silly to worry much about it. Someone uses Mario pipes and lets a bird fly through them and earns thousands with it, others work 10 years on a game and have written 100 pages of blog entry about their game design ideas and nobody buys the game after it is finally released. If you don't just stay true to yourself and be fully convinced of what you do, you will go crazy.
In before LockeZ posting "Nobody wants to steal your ideas".
Copyright fear is rather if YOU are stealing stuff from others and are scared of a lawsuit. ;-)
Anyway, to some extend I have fear of my ideas being stolen, however, if someone actually made something great of it that wouldn't be too bad. Because, you see, I design games because I actually want to play them and not because I want to earn lots of money with them. So someone using my ideas and creating the perfect game out of it, is simply me saving work. My bigger fear is someone using the ideas and totally ruining them.
Really the game market is just too silly to worry much about it. Someone uses Mario pipes and lets a bird fly through them and earns thousands with it, others work 10 years on a game and have written 100 pages of blog entry about their game design ideas and nobody buys the game after it is finally released. If you don't just stay true to yourself and be fully convinced of what you do, you will go crazy.
In before LockeZ posting "Nobody wants to steal your ideas".
Nobody wants to steal your ideas. Everyone wants to be the ideas-person instead. Besides, we live in a world where two comics were created about a talking duck with no pants, half a world away from each other at around the same time - before TV or long distance radio was a big thing. International TV/Radio was definitely out. So chances are if you ever find someone who has 'taken' your idea, it is instead more likely that you have the same inspirational sources.
Even then, the devil is in the details. Every story has been told, it's just the way it's been told that makes all the difference. Look at all those 'Minecraft' wannabe games and tell me where they'll be in a few years time - not in the same place as the original. Look at the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest franchises and tell me how they're the same thing. They aren't, and yet there's no denying they're a lot alike.
Don't fret that people will take your idea. Instead, worry that they'll take your finished work. (That said, if we find anyone stealing others' work they get into a hella trouble.)
Worried about it still? Keep copies of the originals with dates applied. Worry over since you can prove you were the creator.
Even then, the devil is in the details. Every story has been told, it's just the way it's been told that makes all the difference. Look at all those 'Minecraft' wannabe games and tell me where they'll be in a few years time - not in the same place as the original. Look at the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest franchises and tell me how they're the same thing. They aren't, and yet there's no denying they're a lot alike.
Don't fret that people will take your idea. Instead, worry that they'll take your finished work. (That said, if we find anyone stealing others' work they get into a hella trouble.)
Worried about it still? Keep copies of the originals with dates applied. Worry over since you can prove you were the creator.
Actually, I have had ideas stolen. That short story I posted in Creative Corner when I first signed up...it was with a tremendous amount of terror that I posted that. But it was with the conviction that Speech is Free and if you have to pay for Speech, then Freedom of Speech has failed. I've had my work stolen and copyrighted against me. So has my father.
He got a media attorney (Larimore Burton) who told him that the industry steals everything. They don't trust their big artists to be able to produce hits so they have entire companies whose sole purpose is to copy unregistered work wherever they find it and then hire an army of lawyers to make sure the victims can't come after them. They steal from other companies and their artists, steal albums from local artists who don't have a major contract, anything they can find.
He got a media attorney (Larimore Burton) who told him that the industry steals everything. They don't trust their big artists to be able to produce hits so they have entire companies whose sole purpose is to copy unregistered work wherever they find it and then hire an army of lawyers to make sure the victims can't come after them. They steal from other companies and their artists, steal albums from local artists who don't have a major contract, anything they can find.
.....Seriously? That just sounds like conspiracy and paranoia .__. I ain't gonna call ya a liar, but I don't believe it.
Kaempfer
1932
Intellectual property rights are very hard to prove in court unless you have a huge body of evidence to show that it is in fact yours. Creating a gamepage here actually goes a long way in establishing IP rights, since there will be a very specific time and date of when you announced the idea to the world, and subsequent claims will can be verified against that.
It's much more unlikely in an indie games community for someone to attempt to directly steal work (and then copyright it) but be wary of large companies, because they will wantonly, knowing they can trounce you in courts unless you have a comprehensive body of proof. Indie gamers tend more often to be, ahem, "inspired" by other games they see rather than copy your ideas word for word.
In a specific example from the top of my head to support pianotm's claim, a few years back Limp Bizkit (a terrible band for those of you lucky enough to not know them) had a contest where they claimed to be looking for a new guitarist for their band. The contest details stated that the participants needed to perform an original song that they wrote, and the waiver famously denied them any legal rights to the song they chose to perform. In the end, the band decided to hire a professional guitarist (obviously) instead of taking on one of the hopeful amateurs, and very shortly after released a new album (of work they had obviously stolen from their hopeful contestants).
All that being said, I wouldn't worry about it overmuch; courts are becoming more mindful of evidence they couldn't understand even ten years ago, so as long as you insulate yourself by posting in public forums or sending private information only to people you trust, you'll be perfectly fine. And like fdelapena said, sharing is good for the community, and ultimately good for you. Large companies don't really care anyway. A really good indie game idea won't fly with the globomegacompanies, because it doesn't have enough COD appeal. You are safe, don't worry!
In a complete aside, the idea that everything is remixed and therefore nothing is original is a nonsense concept. Look at games like FTL; sure, it remixes old ideas, but the end result is certainly original, and it plays unlike any other game I have. There's no shortage of games using old pieces of string and a few buttons they found to build amazing, new original things. Sure, they are built out of 1s and 0s so they aren't "original" in that sense, but...
It's much more unlikely in an indie games community for someone to attempt to directly steal work (and then copyright it) but be wary of large companies, because they will wantonly, knowing they can trounce you in courts unless you have a comprehensive body of proof. Indie gamers tend more often to be, ahem, "inspired" by other games they see rather than copy your ideas word for word.
In a specific example from the top of my head to support pianotm's claim, a few years back Limp Bizkit (a terrible band for those of you lucky enough to not know them) had a contest where they claimed to be looking for a new guitarist for their band. The contest details stated that the participants needed to perform an original song that they wrote, and the waiver famously denied them any legal rights to the song they chose to perform. In the end, the band decided to hire a professional guitarist (obviously) instead of taking on one of the hopeful amateurs, and very shortly after released a new album (of work they had obviously stolen from their hopeful contestants).
All that being said, I wouldn't worry about it overmuch; courts are becoming more mindful of evidence they couldn't understand even ten years ago, so as long as you insulate yourself by posting in public forums or sending private information only to people you trust, you'll be perfectly fine. And like fdelapena said, sharing is good for the community, and ultimately good for you. Large companies don't really care anyway. A really good indie game idea won't fly with the globomegacompanies, because it doesn't have enough COD appeal. You are safe, don't worry!
In a complete aside, the idea that everything is remixed and therefore nothing is original is a nonsense concept. Look at games like FTL; sure, it remixes old ideas, but the end result is certainly original, and it plays unlike any other game I have. There's no shortage of games using old pieces of string and a few buttons they found to build amazing, new original things. Sure, they are built out of 1s and 0s so they aren't "original" in that sense, but...
Kaempfer is right.
I've learned a tremendous amount about copyright law in the many years I've been writing. Stealing copyright material isn't as easy as people think. There are laws in place that protect the "fanfiction" writer. Fanfiction is regarded as transformative and therefore, as long as it doesn't directly copy content and cash in trademarked names, is, in theory, legally immune from copyright infringement claims.
Now, your concern. Copyright registration is not necessary. The state merely provides that as a service so you can prove ownership of intellectual property. In fact, the copyright legally exists the moment you create the work to be copyrighted. The problem comes in proving that copyright's existence. In indie game development, this doesn't seem like there would be a problem. Nobody is going to be able to go to a court of law and say that an indie game didn't exist when the archives clearly show that it did.
This was the overriding factor that let me confidently post "Do Broken Toys Go to Heaven." Yes, I risk that short story being stolen, but in fact, I can now easily show its publication on RMN. Nobody can ever make that go away, especially with Kentona's policy of preserving absolutely everything for posterity. I personally don't care if the story is copied and distributed by others. What I am concerned about is that my name is attached to the story. To me, taking my name off the story and then claiming you wrote it would be the true act of theft.
I've learned a tremendous amount about copyright law in the many years I've been writing. Stealing copyright material isn't as easy as people think. There are laws in place that protect the "fanfiction" writer. Fanfiction is regarded as transformative and therefore, as long as it doesn't directly copy content and cash in trademarked names, is, in theory, legally immune from copyright infringement claims.
Now, your concern. Copyright registration is not necessary. The state merely provides that as a service so you can prove ownership of intellectual property. In fact, the copyright legally exists the moment you create the work to be copyrighted. The problem comes in proving that copyright's existence. In indie game development, this doesn't seem like there would be a problem. Nobody is going to be able to go to a court of law and say that an indie game didn't exist when the archives clearly show that it did.
This was the overriding factor that let me confidently post "Do Broken Toys Go to Heaven." Yes, I risk that short story being stolen, but in fact, I can now easily show its publication on RMN. Nobody can ever make that go away, especially with Kentona's policy of preserving absolutely everything for posterity. I personally don't care if the story is copied and distributed by others. What I am concerned about is that my name is attached to the story. To me, taking my name off the story and then claiming you wrote it would be the true act of theft.
It helps too that a lot of people in the community frequent more than one forum. If someone takes your stuff and puts it up as theirs in another place, more likely than not they get called out on it.
Hell, we have had people try to pass maps from other games on their own gamepages and we noticed right away (helps that they showed some super awesome maps mixed in with their My First RTP Map ones). And there have been cases in the past of games being taken and renamed, or graphics being stolen and shown off. They never got far with it (man, I remember that one guy who took a map from Ara Fell, of all games, and tried to pass it off as his own. Dude got destroyed!) and most RM sites won't put up with that kind of shit.
You'd be surprised by what is retained in your memory even years after seeing it! Just a month or so ago I was playing a Suikoden fan game and noticed a map that was something I'd seen posted at least 2 or 3 years before on another forum. Recognised it right away as a theft and reported the shit out of it.
Graphics, too, are easy to pick (have seen people try to pass off others' hard-created graphics as theirs and had their asses blasted for it) and let me tell you that music is something most non-RMers pick up on too. (The Here and Now of Yesterday has a few commercial songs in it from Zelda and Anastasia - people watching LPs of the game picked up on them right away and blasted the shit out of the game for it - even though it was credited and a non-commercial game. Hence why I try to make sure to go the free music route now-days.)
Just, as long as your stuff has been seen before as your stuff, people will be happy to jump on anyone trying to pinch it... on this site and RMW and a few other sites, at least. There are some pretty skeezy places out there.
(Imagine the work that Dejica/Enterbrain has to do to protect the copyright of their resource packs.)
Hell, we have had people try to pass maps from other games on their own gamepages and we noticed right away (helps that they showed some super awesome maps mixed in with their My First RTP Map ones). And there have been cases in the past of games being taken and renamed, or graphics being stolen and shown off. They never got far with it (man, I remember that one guy who took a map from Ara Fell, of all games, and tried to pass it off as his own. Dude got destroyed!) and most RM sites won't put up with that kind of shit.
You'd be surprised by what is retained in your memory even years after seeing it! Just a month or so ago I was playing a Suikoden fan game and noticed a map that was something I'd seen posted at least 2 or 3 years before on another forum. Recognised it right away as a theft and reported the shit out of it.
Graphics, too, are easy to pick (have seen people try to pass off others' hard-created graphics as theirs and had their asses blasted for it) and let me tell you that music is something most non-RMers pick up on too. (The Here and Now of Yesterday has a few commercial songs in it from Zelda and Anastasia - people watching LPs of the game picked up on them right away and blasted the shit out of the game for it - even though it was credited and a non-commercial game. Hence why I try to make sure to go the free music route now-days.)
Just, as long as your stuff has been seen before as your stuff, people will be happy to jump on anyone trying to pinch it... on this site and RMW and a few other sites, at least. There are some pretty skeezy places out there.
(Imagine the work that Dejica/Enterbrain has to do to protect the copyright of their resource packs.)
Well it's nice to know the community here is very friendly and helpful :) I'm already liking this site a lot. I may start submitting more work here, but I did submit a piece of music. If anyone wants to have a listen to it go ahead. I'm always looking for feedback and thoughts.
Hear my words of wisdom:
Don't worry about whole copyright thing, companies won't care unless you'll make FF game that you want to sell. Companies won't steal your idea either as they have many own designer and each designer, if he/she is worth paycheck he/she receives has like hundreds of different ideas. Plus if your game was never intended to be sold, I wouldn't make fuss about it if someone would make similar game and sells it. I would make it only if you'd have proof that maker of "clone" used your assets (music, graphics and in some specific cases, when game can be easily decompiled like GM game or RM game, code) that you made specifically for this game.
Don't worry about whole copyright thing, companies won't care unless you'll make FF game that you want to sell. Companies won't steal your idea either as they have many own designer and each designer, if he/she is worth paycheck he/she receives has like hundreds of different ideas. Plus if your game was never intended to be sold, I wouldn't make fuss about it if someone would make similar game and sells it. I would make it only if you'd have proof that maker of "clone" used your assets (music, graphics and in some specific cases, when game can be easily decompiled like GM game or RM game, code) that you made specifically for this game.
Pages:
1
