[POLL] ACCOUNTING FOR TASTE

I WILL *NEVER* CHANGE IT
Now, no. It's not true. But no numerical value of people will make me want to change it. It is the arguments that will. If they don't like the battle music or the art style I've used for the backdrops, what a shame! There are plenty of other games that use different styles, go play those instead!
Even if 12 peolpe hate the battle theme and 2 love it, you're on the winning position. Those 2 people are what matter. And they will like your game. Not so much if you bend it and twist it to those other 12... Who will still not give a shit anyway. It's your vision, your game! Do it the way you envision it! Otherwise, why are you even designing games?

That's my opinion on the topic. I know it's quite strong. Hahahah.
But I believe you probably share it!

author=Max McGee

But no numerical value of people will make me want to change it. It is the arguments that will.

That is an amazingly fascinating position to take and adds a whole new dimension to the issue and I'd honestly love to hear more about it.

For instance: Someone plays Romancing SaGa and turns to Kawazu, saying "Hey, it's annoying to level your affinity for weapons! Cut it out!"
I'd in turn say "No. Thanks for playing."
But if it someone plays Romancing SaGa and says "Hey, it's interesting what you did there. But maybe you could level affinity for weapon types, instead of weapons!" (and thus improving over the original mechanics instead of ditching the developer's original vision of his creation) I'd take it in consideration. This is a legit example because it's exactly what he did for Romancing SaGa 2, and I'm sure he'd have thought it up for the first time if someone in the dev team gave'im that idea! Or maybe he'd simply change what was said, but figure a different solution instead. (man, my wordings and examples are shit.)

Also, yeah, all criticism is pivotal to your growth. Doesn't matter if it's bashful or not, there's always a reasoning behind that. Even if the person is a total jerk, they're doing you a big favor in telling you their opinion.

EDIT:

author=SnowOwl
If it's something that would change the entire game though or take enourmous amounts of effort to change, they better give a damn good reason for changing it.

Not only that, they don't know the vision you have for your game. They don't know why things are what they are. They don't know what is heart and what is core in your game. This is why I don't think people's opinions matter that much, as long as you know what you're doing, of course.

I... Guess. xD
Here in the RPG Maker scene it's all very different, and people behave very differently from the actual game design industry. And games, for most of us, are just hobbies after all! They don't have as much thought put into them than the commercial games do. (because 100 people's thoughts almost always outweights 2 people's.)
That's not to say that they're necessarily better, there are a lot of shit commercial games out there, and a lot of freeware and very solid masterpieces (Cave Story comes to mind) out there. But it's easier to change something when this something is not "core".

In my game Iniquity and Vindication, I got six or seven complaints in my initial demo about "This hardcore metal battle music is too loud and obnoxious." I ignored them all. It's a game with a rad 80s motif and I'm going to be using metal for the entire soundtrack. I don't care if you hate it. You'll probably hate the whole game, so you might as well leave now!

But then I got one complaint that read something like, "I feel like this music is actually... too good. I don't know if that makes sense, that sounds like a ridiculous complaint. It is honestly distracting me from the exploration and strategic combat." This was the one that made me change the music.

So I guess the answer is... it only takes one complaint? But it has to be the right one.

Think of it this way:



"This is fucking horrible". Says a guy.
"Why" you ask?
"Because it hurts my ears. Its a shitty little loop that just plays a dumb dissonant arpeggio and it never stops. Couldn't you change it to something else?"

I personally don't think that this is bad. But not everyone is in love with 8 bit music and I can understand where a guy is coming from if the music is annoying rather than him straight up disliking it. I straight up dislike most rap music. But its one of the most popular genres in American aside from country, which also bugs me. "It all sounds the same" I say. "There's subtle nuances and differences that make each track unique, they say" and the same could be said for most folk music. Which I do like. Its all relative.

For me, I'll change a game's music if someone comes and tells me about it when the game's in a demo format or if someone gives me a better song to work with. If they just say "it sucks" in a forum or status or something, or choose not to explain why. I won't bother. Because its all a matter of opinion. I mean hell, a lot of games have music that's excellent to play in-game and sounds amazing, but might be pretty boring and not that great to listen to on a CD track.

^ case in point

since 923847923874 ppl posted since I editted that post I'm posting the edit here again so that you can see it hahahah xD

EDIT:

author=SnowOwl
If it's something that would change the entire game though or take enourmous amounts of effort to change, they better give a damn good reason for changing it.

Not only that, they don't know the vision you have for your game. They don't know why things are what they are. They don't know what is heart and what is core in your game. This is why I don't think people's opinions matter that much, as long as you know what you're doing, of course.

I... Guess. xD
Here in the RPG Maker scene it's all very different, and people behave very differently from the actual game design industry. And games, for most of us, are just hobbies after all! They don't have as much thought put into them than the commercial games do. (because 100 people's thoughts almost always outweights 2 people's.)
That's not to say that they're necessarily better, there are a lot of shit commercial games out there, and a lot of freeware and very solid masterpieces (Cave Story comes to mind) out there. But it's easier to change something when this something is not "core".

Yeah, despite what people say, I don't think I would be able to change anything from my game. Unless it's my decision or it's something that most of the people think it's a big mistake, then I would change it.

But still, it's pretty hard for me to change something from my game, because I probably liked that aspect from the game and well, it's my game in the end. If I change something that I like from my game just because of people's opinion, it would start feeling less like my game. You know what I mean, right?

author=Max McGee

But no numerical value of people will make me want to change it. It is the arguments that will.

That is an amazingly fascinating position to take and adds a whole new dimension to the issue and I'd honestly love to hear more about it.

legitimate criticism (since I tend to ignore people who violently cuss about issues)

First off, ignoring people who are rude jerks is a laudable position and I sympathize. But one of the hardest lessons I've ever learned in my career as a professional creative is this: just because criticism is not delivered nicely or politely doesn't automatically make it illegitimate.

Basically it all has to do with how my team evaluates the issue in question. If we agree that there's a problem, then we'll change it. If it looks more like an issue of personal taste or opinion, it's probably fine to stay in the game.

Well, let's twist the knife on this hypothetical scenario, then. Let's say that one of the handful of people that hates the aesthetic decision in question is a member of your team (let's say for argument's sake half of your team hates it, and the other half, including you, loves it; this can be true for a team of 2 or a team of 12).

Oh, I know that angry criticism is still legitimate (sometimes), but what I mean is that I'm less likely to listen to your criticism if you can't offer it without throwing a tantrum or being a child about it.

In terms of a disagreement happening in house, we usually just discuss all the pros and cons and stuff like a normal studio would. We're a two person team, and we're room mates, so there's a lot pf respect there as people and as devs- if my partner has an issue with something then I'm more likely to listen to him out of that mutual respect. I'm sorry that I can't answer in greater detail, I'm on my phone on a bus right now.

I'd also like to clarify my stance on art based criticism- if someone says for example that they think the colours are muddy, or there's a problem with shape or brightness/perspective/saturation then yeah, I'm flat out always going to consider it. But if someone's complaint is "I don't like that this game has an anthropomorphic mouse in it" or "I don't like the setting because its fantasy" or "I don't like that you use so many patterns" or something asinine then I can't say I'd listen to it, cause it's totally opinion based.

@Max: Really? I think it is on topic. Players disliking the difficulty usually support that criticism with "It's the beginning of the game. It should be easy."

I think that actually is a player's personal taste talking. Players can come into almost any game with a preset number of (understandable) expectations. For example: The beginning should be easy. The intro shouldn't take 4 hours before a battle. I should never get creamed by one single, basic enemy. Cutscenes shouldn't last too long.

When those expectations aren't met, a thought that will cross the minds of many players is, "This is wrong. This needs to be changed. What was the developer thinking?"

However, there are many games that disregard those expectations. To list some examples: Persona 4, Dark Souls, Metal Gear Solid 4. Yet, these games do SO WELL critically and commercially. Why? Because smart design decisions were made to make the breaking of those expectations easier. Metal Gear Solid 4 has long, loooong cutscenes. But certain decisions mere made to keep the player from getting bored during those scenes. During the mission briefing, you could control a little robot and explore the room you were in, and there was lots of interesting things you could check out. So you weren't bored while you listened to the character talk and talk and taaaaalk.

In Dark Souls. You could essentially get creamed by a single, basic enemy, but you rarely fought more than three or four at once. This is just enough time to you to focus on that one enemy's attack patterns and movements. If -when- you die, you know exactly HOW you died, and feel justified in getting killed in that manner.



Let me use an RPG Maker game for a new example (that I hope will be slightly more on topic than the last few paragraphs). You remember Essence Enforcer, yes? Well, the last boss music, I feel, is a great example of making design decisions that allow for personal taste. I hate dubstep. Wub wubs practically make my eardrums want to commit suicide. Essence Enforcer was no exception.

However, 2 decisions were made to make the choice of music appropriate:

1: It was a good selection of music for the situation. The wub wubs, while annoying to me personally, were fast-paced, intense, and appropriate considering the intensity of the boss. If something like THIS played instead, I would have muted the game instantly. (I can tell you that with certainty because I couldn't listen to more than 30 seconds of that track before copying the URL and putting it here.)

2: The song changes. For those that find any kind of dubstep intolerable, the music does change after 1/3 of the boss' health is depleted to the EXACT OPPOSITE of wub wubs. Instead, it's a more somber, suspense-building piece that really drives home the feeling of fighting a powerful being.


I can promise you that the wub wubs would have been panned by everyone who dislikes that kind of music if the previous two decisions were handled poorly.