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ALERT: PLAYER CHOICE AHEAD!
Posts
unity
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CloseWhenever the dialog stops to give a choice to the player, a big concern of mine as a developer is preventing the annoying problem of "I'm hitting enter to get through the dialog and OOPS I just chose the first option in a player choice because I wasn't paying attention and/or hit enter again on accident."
In older games, I used a sound effect cue before each choice to let players know a choice was coming. I figure a quick animation (maybe "Choice Time!" flying across the screen really quickly or something similar) might work, too.
Lately, I've been considering just making the first choice in any player choice blank, so that if you hit enter too soon, that first choice will just make the choice repeat. Like so:
Obviously, this is more important in games that are asking players to make choices like this a lot, but how do other people handle this? Are any of these methods more effective? Or do you feel that they are they unnecessary, and that the standard "hit enter too soon" thing isn't really a big problem?
In older games, I used a sound effect cue before each choice to let players know a choice was coming. I figure a quick animation (maybe "Choice Time!" flying across the screen really quickly or something similar) might work, too.
Lately, I've been considering just making the first choice in any player choice blank, so that if you hit enter too soon, that first choice will just make the choice repeat. Like so:
Obviously, this is more important in games that are asking players to make choices like this a lot, but how do other people handle this? Are any of these methods more effective? Or do you feel that they are they unnecessary, and that the standard "hit enter too soon" thing isn't really a big problem?
Ideally speaking, I think it would be better if you make it so no option can be chosen at first, no matter how much you press that 'Accept' button. First you'd have to use the directional keys so the cursor actually appear above the options, and then and only then you could make your choice. I think this a more elegant and yet intuitive solution to those button-mashing accidents, but it may require some scripting so it may not be really worth it. For all intents and purposes your idea works just as well.
I like alterego's idea! (pretty sure that's what I did for Résumé) Another thing I've tried is adding a little delay between the choice box appearing and the player being able to input choices, or adding another keypress between the question dialogue and the choice box appearing (so they would have to press twice to accept a choice accidentally). These work pretty well for me, but I'm not sure how easy it is to script that into VXA.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Personally, I feel like the sound effect before a choice is already a good addition. A giant CHOICE TIME floating across the screen would really kill the immersion for me, as well as a blank choice at the beginning.
I think the issue, in your scenario, lies not with the choice box itself, but what happens around it. If someone is just mashing through the text to get through to the end, the dialogue is either boring or they're not playing it in way it should be played. You have control over the former scenario. Make the dialogue more interesting, or make the text before the choice last longer than three words so there's no chance of accidentally hitting enter too soon. Also, try giving more indication in the prior dialogue that the player is about to make a choice. That should incite the player to slow down enough so that they don't spam enter through the choice.
For example: let's use the common, "Kill or spare" scenario. If players are hunting down another person, indicate that they will have an option to kill or spare that person AT THE BEGINNING of the hunt. That way, the players will have time to mull over the options as the hunt goes on. By the time the decision-making moment arrives, players will know that the choice is coming and will be expecting that choice box to show up, greatly reducing the chance of mashing through the choice.
As for the latter scenario, well... I don't normally blame players for things going wrong, but it's impossible to make games that EVERYONE will like. Trying to accommodate for every individual doesn't really feel like a worthwhile investment of time, especially if
I think the issue, in your scenario, lies not with the choice box itself, but what happens around it. If someone is just mashing through the text to get through to the end, the dialogue is either boring or they're not playing it in way it should be played. You have control over the former scenario. Make the dialogue more interesting, or make the text before the choice last longer than three words so there's no chance of accidentally hitting enter too soon. Also, try giving more indication in the prior dialogue that the player is about to make a choice. That should incite the player to slow down enough so that they don't spam enter through the choice.
For example: let's use the common, "Kill or spare" scenario. If players are hunting down another person, indicate that they will have an option to kill or spare that person AT THE BEGINNING of the hunt. That way, the players will have time to mull over the options as the hunt goes on. By the time the decision-making moment arrives, players will know that the choice is coming and will be expecting that choice box to show up, greatly reducing the chance of mashing through the choice.
As for the latter scenario, well... I don't normally blame players for things going wrong, but it's impossible to make games that EVERYONE will like. Trying to accommodate for every individual doesn't really feel like a worthwhile investment of time, especially if
I like to use the \| and \! in conjunction. The first puts a second of time before the choice is made and the second makes you have to press enter to continue onwards.
That said, if someone button mashes they deserve to hit whatever choice they get. In that case, put the 'canon' choice first. That is - there are always paths that are the 'proper' one. Put that as the first choice. Or, if you're a sadist, put the worst choice they could make first. They'll pay attention the next time~ ;p
Of course, another idea is to have a "Is this what you truly want? No/Yes" choice afterwards that will loop back to the original branch if you spam since it hits No.
That said, if someone button mashes they deserve to hit whatever choice they get. In that case, put the 'canon' choice first. That is - there are always paths that are the 'proper' one. Put that as the first choice. Or, if you're a sadist, put the worst choice they could make first. They'll pay attention the next time~ ;p
Of course, another idea is to have a "Is this what you truly want? No/Yes" choice afterwards that will loop back to the original branch if you spam since it hits No.
RedMask
1139
Hadn't really thought of that before, I like the various solutions you came up with.
Another solution I could think of is if it is an item that they are choosing you could have said items physically appear on the map and the player has to walk up to the (item 1)Peanut Butter,(item 2) Jelly, or (item 3)PB and J.
But that only works with items and not types of responses.
What might be cool but a bit complicated would be a version of your proposed idea with the blank choice but with some custom coding in which the player choice window looks roughly like this
................................................(Choice 1)
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
(Choice2)--------------------(blank choice)--------------------(Choice3)
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
................................................(Choice4)
Yet another solution with less effort involved would be to make the player have to hold another button when choice boxes come up.
For example.
The player gets a choice of GIVE ME PIE or DON'T GIVE ME PIE
the event could be set to loop the question if the player just presses the confirmation button. The loop will break if the player holds the designated choice button while selecting their choice.
Another solution I could think of is if it is an item that they are choosing you could have said items physically appear on the map and the player has to walk up to the (item 1)Peanut Butter,(item 2) Jelly, or (item 3)PB and J.
But that only works with items and not types of responses.
What might be cool but a bit complicated would be a version of your proposed idea with the blank choice but with some custom coding in which the player choice window looks roughly like this
................................................(Choice 1)
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
(Choice2)--------------------(blank choice)--------------------(Choice3)
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
........................................................|
................................................(Choice4)
Yet another solution with less effort involved would be to make the player have to hold another button when choice boxes come up.
For example.
The player gets a choice of GIVE ME PIE or DON'T GIVE ME PIE
the event could be set to loop the question if the player just presses the confirmation button. The loop will break if the player holds the designated choice button while selecting their choice.
author=alterego
Ideally speaking, I think it would be better if you make it so no option can be chosen at first, no matter how much you press that 'Accept' button. First you'd have to use the directional keys so the cursor actually appear above the options, and then and only then you could make your choice. I think this a more elegant and yet intuitive solution to those button-mashing accidents, but it may require some scripting so it may not be really worth it. For all intents and purposes your idea works just as well.
This is how Half Minute Hero handles its dialog options and it's basically what JRPGs should've been doing since day fucking one. It's a simple solution that should be the standard. It would require scripting since the selectable window defaults to having an index that will be selected if the player hits confirm (I've done this by accident on stuff I actually want to read) so hopefully there's a script for it.
e: eh, not worth it
Half Minute Hero does a lot of things right, which is surprisingly given how absolutely tiny it is. ...and by that I mean the main quest does things right. The unlockable game modes sucked imo.
I personally just always put the repeat/cancel option first.
I personally just always put the repeat/cancel option first.
author=unity
"I'm hitting enter to get through the dialog and OOPS I just chose the first option in a player choice because I wasn't paying attention and/or hit enter again on accident."
I'm not going to argue against Red's point about the conversation being more engaging. However, this seems to happen to me more often when I'm play-testing my own games. I already know what the dialog is, and have read it a billion times before. So, yeah, the desire to skip it by mashing <ENTER> is totally there.
When I'm not play-testing, my usual response to missing what seems to be important dialog is to want to hit F12 and reset. Though, whither or not I hit that button depends on when my last save was, or when I sense the next opportunity to save is.
Ok, general comment on the topic of player choice (because I didn't realize how very specific this topic was):
As a player, meaningful choices to make during the game that effect the course of the game is absolutely the number one thing that makes me want to play.
As a developer, the branching game logic and extra branching content required to support meaningful player choices is absolutely the number one thing that kills development.
Anyway as for what this topic's actually about:
I think a combination of sound effect cue and animation--a one of those icon bubble dealies over the character's head would work well too and isn't too obtrusive--is somewhere between perfectly adequate for this task and actually ideal. I wouldn't personally bother with having a blank choice on the menu.
As a player, meaningful choices to make during the game that effect the course of the game is absolutely the number one thing that makes me want to play.
As a developer, the branching game logic and extra branching content required to support meaningful player choices is absolutely the number one thing that kills development.
Anyway as for what this topic's actually about:
author=unity
In older games, I used a sound effect cue before each choice to let players know a choice was coming. I figure a quick animation (maybe "Choice Time!" flying across the screen really quickly or something similar) might work, too.
I think a combination of sound effect cue and animation--a one of those icon bubble dealies over the character's head would work well too and isn't too obtrusive--is somewhere between perfectly adequate for this task and actually ideal. I wouldn't personally bother with having a blank choice on the menu.
author=GreatRedSpirit
e: eh, not worth it
class Window_ChoiceList < Window_Command alias activate_grs_is_lazy activate def activate activate_grs_is_lazy select(-1) end end
I edited out me being dumb and cranky, not that a script wouldn't be worth it (not that I would've done it anyways~)
turkeyDawg
195
author=Red_NovaOr they've played the game before and know what people are saying.
If someone is just mashing through the text to get through to the end, the dialogue is either boring or they're not playing it in way it should be played.
I think the simplest fix is to just have "Confirm" and "Text Advance" on different buttons. That would solve this issue, and the other issue of accidentally re-talking to NPCs you just mashed through.
Not sure how hard this would be to do in RPG Maker, though.
You could try having a blank message box to pop up along with the said choices. I did this in my game (to some extent), and placed a message box with an ellipsis with choice boxes. It gives you the desired pause, and you can mask it up as if the player-character is thinking about it (the choice).
turkeyDawg
195
Okay, I think I've figured out how to have Text Advance and Confirm on different buttons in XP.
In Window_Message, go to about line 220 and replace
with
or something like that. Where it says Input::DOWN is your Text Advance button (I set it to the Down arrow key), and Input::C is your Confirm button. If you change "trigger?" to "repeat?" where it has Input::DOWN, you can have it advance by just holding down the button rather than mashing.
In Window_Message, go to about line 220 and replace
# If message is being displayed if @contents_showing # If choice isn't being displayed, show pause sign if $game_temp.choice_max == 0 self.pause = true end # Cancel if Input.trigger?(Input::B) if $game_temp.choice_max > 0 and $game_temp.choice_cancel_type > 0 $game_system.se_play($data_system.cancel_se) $game_temp.choice_proc.call($game_temp.choice_cancel_type - 1) terminate_message end end # Confirm if Input.trigger?(Input::C) if $game_temp.choice_max > 0 $game_system.se_play($data_system.decision_se) $game_temp.choice_proc.call(self.index) end terminate_message end return
with
# If message is being displayed if @contents_showing # If choice isn't being displayed, show pause sign if $game_temp.choice_max == 0 self.pause = true if Input.trigger?(Input::DOWN) terminate_message end end # Cancel if Input.trigger?(Input::B) if $game_temp.choice_max > 0 and $game_temp.choice_cancel_type > 0 $game_system.se_play($data_system.cancel_se) $game_temp.choice_proc.call($game_temp.choice_cancel_type - 1) terminate_message end end # Confirm if $game_temp.choice_max > 0 if Input.trigger?(Input::C) $game_system.se_play($data_system.decision_se) $game_temp.choice_proc.call(self.index) terminate_message end end return
or something like that. Where it says Input::DOWN is your Text Advance button (I set it to the Down arrow key), and Input::C is your Confirm button. If you change "trigger?" to "repeat?" where it has Input::DOWN, you can have it advance by just holding down the button rather than mashing.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Man I just make text boxes appear instantly instead of letter by letter, so that no one will be hitting enter to make it appear faster in the first place. Who likes having to hit enter twice per text box anyway? That shit is obnoxious. It's as bad as making you hold down shift to run for the whole game.
Alternately, maybe do it like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, where the cursor starts in the middle, and there are four options up/down/left/right of the middle. So the player has to press enter while holding down that arrow to choose an option.
Alternately, maybe do it like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, where the cursor starts in the middle, and there are four options up/down/left/right of the middle. So the player has to press enter while holding down that arrow to choose an option.
Start the cursor on a blank choice so that when the player accidentally chooses it, it only plays an annoying buzzer.
I've never had a problem with these when I first encounter dialogue.
Because I read it.
I may slip up and make a mistake if I'm replaying the area or something, but honestly if the player messes this up its their own fault. The classiest thing to do is to add a sound cue and a quarter second pause before the prompt pops up. Otherwise I don't see the need to spend a lot of effort on it.
This only really matters if the choice you're making is REALLY IMPORTANT. In which case, every old game ever just throws out a second prompt asking if the player's sure.
Because I read it.
I may slip up and make a mistake if I'm replaying the area or something, but honestly if the player messes this up its their own fault. The classiest thing to do is to add a sound cue and a quarter second pause before the prompt pops up. Otherwise I don't see the need to spend a lot of effort on it.
This only really matters if the choice you're making is REALLY IMPORTANT. In which case, every old game ever just throws out a second prompt asking if the player's sure.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=IsrieriJust to clarify, we're not talking about people hitting enter to skip the dialogue. We're talking about games where the text appears in the text box . v e r y . . s l o w l y . and you have to hit enter to make it finish appearing. The player then gets in the habit of pressing enter as soon as each text box appears, just so they can read it. But if what appears is a choice instead of just text, they accidentally choose the first one (often before they even see what it is).
I've never had a problem with these when I first encounter dialogue.
Because I read it.
For a pristine example of this bullshit in action, see Suikoden 2. It has the added bonus of making important choice boxes be the only things in the game that appear instantly instead of letter by letter, so you're guaranteed to accidentally choose the first option every single time.
You know you can hold shift to get through that tedium, right? It's like an instant show button (or near to). The only time I don't advise it is when idiot makers use a certain script which makes that the super-fast-forward mode for windows and skips everything. I hate that script. So. So. Much. Or, to be more precise, I hate people who use that script and don't change the default button - because you'll be dashing and suddenly trigger a scene that is just as suddenly over because oh hey fucking idiot forgot to change the button and I just missed out on finding out where to fucking go in your fucking game...
Sorry, but I hate people who do that. And I hate missing dialogue. :<
Sorry, but I hate people who do that. And I hate missing dialogue. :<
