WHAT DO YOU LOVE/HATE SEEING IN A GAME?
Posts
chu-chu shouldn't have existed in the first place. also one who bares fangs at god is indeed terrific. xenogears is a shame *erects MOG shield Mk3*
ratty: get an SSD ;V you won't even be able to read 'em
god battle themes are my favorite thing but they can fuck up so much (i don't have much else to input other than "i've seen this in other games too yeah" and "i stopped playing x when i got to mt gagazet for no real reason so i can't really relate")
i can see sailerius just curling up into a ball at the thought that you dare accuse non-random battles as being somehow not perfect though. tsk tsk
ratty: get an SSD ;V you won't even be able to read 'em
Feldschlacht IV
How do the developers decide to get the player to feel the experience? They decide to rip the player out of it via the battle theme totally smashing the BGM with every random battle. It doesn't even have much to do with the random battle mechanic either, the entire reason I mention it is because other games without random battles do it as well.
god battle themes are my favorite thing but they can fuck up so much (i don't have much else to input other than "i've seen this in other games too yeah" and "i stopped playing x when i got to mt gagazet for no real reason so i can't really relate")
i can see sailerius just curling up into a ball at the thought that you dare accuse non-random battles as being somehow not perfect though. tsk tsk
author=Ilan14
...So anyway:
There are three random things I like in videogames, RPG's especially:
1) At least one love storyline. (Preferably belonging to the main party.)
2) A relationship system. (Which goes well with point number 1.)
And 3) A branching storyline that leads to multiple endings.
If you do well one or two of these things in a game, I'm happy. :D
This.
I hate it when a game tries to do some kind of rush playthrough system like BOF Dragon Quarter. I mean, if Ryu had some incurable disease, this would make sense. But it just struck me as cheap enough that I never even wanted the game.
I hate VX Ace games. The fact that size seems perma-set as blocky critters (yes, I know size is adjustable, but nobody uses it) makes me rage.
I suppose I also like to see games where the creator has done something interesting, like turned XP or VX into a Renpy interface. Or turned a 2k3 game into a board game (Pocket Quest).
I like seeing games where the battle theme is part of Turn 0 programming, so we don't have the same generic song for all battles.
random battle themes can exist, i did it in Visions & Voices, but i think it fits a LOT more when it's tied to an area or a time. for example, you get the suiko4 battle theme when you visit the island nations in suikoden 5.
I think in one game I had stuff like battle themes based on the previous terrain ID, except for special battles. This would ensure that battle theme got mixed a bit, and for battles where a certain theme was appropriate to have a good soundtrack (robot battles seriously I had to have Domo Arigato Mr Roboto) to have consistency.
author=bulmabriefs144
I hate it when a game tries to do some kind of rush playthrough system like BOF Dragon Quarter. I mean, if Ryu had some incurable disease, this would make sense. But it just struck me as cheap enough that I never even wanted the game.
He kind of did though, in the context of the game. It wasn't exactly a disease, but there was definitely a strong in-game justification for him having such a strict time limit to deal with.
Of course, just because you can justify a design decision with in-story or thematic reasons, doesn't mean it's going to be enjoyable for players. BoF Dragon Quarter was kind of interesting (I played it enough to reach the 1/4 ranking without using a guide, so it's definitely not like I ragequit or anything,) but it's kind of frustrating and tedious in how it makes you run through the same content in unaltered form repeatedly to make progress, and like Final Fantasy XIII it's stripped down in ways that make it not very RPG-ish, and so not necessarily in line with what people who bought it out of appreciation for previous games in the series are looking for.
Dragon Quarter does not require you to run trough the same content repeatedly just to make progress. All you need to do is to buy a lot of healing items.
Anyway, one of my biggest beefs are when the writer tries to substitute actual writing skills by making the story grimdark and/or complicated. It has pretty much the same effect as a clumsy person trying an advanced acrobatic maneuver would have.
I'm also annoyed by what I call "many voices of one". We have a lot of characters with different personalities, but they all seem to have the same opinion about certain subjects. This is not unexpected since they are written by the same person and it's easy to screw up the giving them their own opinion part, but it still means I'm seeing the writer instead of the characters.
Anyway, one of my biggest beefs are when the writer tries to substitute actual writing skills by making the story grimdark and/or complicated. It has pretty much the same effect as a clumsy person trying an advanced acrobatic maneuver would have.
I'm also annoyed by what I call "many voices of one". We have a lot of characters with different personalities, but they all seem to have the same opinion about certain subjects. This is not unexpected since they are written by the same person and it's easy to screw up the giving them their own opinion part, but it still means I'm seeing the writer instead of the characters.
Crystalgate
Anyway, one of my biggest beefs are when the writer tries to substitute actual writing skills by making the story grimdark and/or complicated. It has pretty much the same effect as a clumsy person trying an advanced acrobatic maneuver would have.
i will admit to having thrown out plenty of projects because i did this... and yet i still do it. sighhh. i need to learn to embrace my own "i don't know how to write or make dungeons" style and just roll with it instead of trying to force it into my stuff
If you think writing isn't one of your strengths, I think you're selling yourself short. I don't think many people come up with good stories by aiming to make them grimdark or complicated though. Definitely every idea I ever came up with when I was thinking in terms of coming up with mature, complicated stories was pretty terrible. Not that those are bad things for a story to be, but coming up with a good story by trying to think of something complicated and mature is like trying to think of a good joke in response to "say something funny."
I love when games prompt you to save before strong fights. I hate when they don't. Nothing's worse than losing 15 minutes of progress because you didn't realize a huge boss fight was coming up. "Something powerful lurks in this room. Are you sure you want to continue? Yes/No" is what I'd like to see before encountering a tough boss room because then I can just press No, save, and re-enter. Having a save crystal outside this door is also recommended.
CashmereCat
I love when games prompt you to save before strong fights. I hate when they don't. Nothing's worse than losing 15 minutes of progress because you didn't realize a huge boss fight was coming up. "Something powerful lurks in this room. Are you sure you want to continue? Yes/No" is what I'd like to see before encountering a tough boss room because then I can just press No, save, and re-enter. Having a save crystal outside this door is also recommended.
FFXII's "you should use a different slot" save crystals were the best. until they TRIED TO EAT YOU
Last Scenario mild lategame spoiler (no story spoilers):
there's a room in one of the final dungeons that's full of save crystals. except they're all minibosses. best grinding spot in the game
Desertopa: I'd like to think that I write characters and dialogue in at least a fun way, but plot structure and NPCs completely elude me. traditional rpgs have so many major npcs and it's like... why write somebody that isn't a party member??? does not compute in the crazemind
NPCs are people too, Craze! But if anything, I want to see more bosses with motivation and goals and dreams, so I can know what in destroying when I take them down. Revel in guilt!!
author=Craze
FFXII's "you should use a different slot" save crystals were the best. until they TRIED TO EAT YOU
You know, I honestly enjoyed that. Final Fantasy XII is like, 75% sidequests, and I'm too much of a completionist to just skip by all that, so it left me completely overleveled for the main plotline stuff, and that sort of thing helped to add a bit of tension back in. Of course, it probably would have made a lot more sense design-wise to stick that kind of stuff in sidequest areas where, if the players are more likely to get killed, at least they've kind of brought it on themselves.
author=Craze
Desertopa: I'd like to think that I write characters and dialogue in at least a fun way, but plot structure and NPCs completely elude me. traditional rpgs have so many major npcs and it's like... why write somebody that isn't a party member??? does not compute in the crazemind
Maybe I'm biased, but I feel like if a person can write good characters and dialogue, they can probably learn to write worthwhile plots, since I think you can approach plotting from a character-based perspective where putting together the overall structure of the story isn't so different from developing the structure of a conversation.
Do interactions with NPCs not interest you in the games you play, or is just about writing them? If it's the former, I guess it makes sense to focus on stories that lend themselves to an NPC-minimal setup, but if it's the latter then maybe you just need to approach the narrative with a different perspective?
If you ever feel like farming out NPC writing to someone else though, or having someone else to hammer out plot ideas with, I'd be happy to collaborate.
author=CashmereCatIn my version of Ring of Udrai, the last boss literally asks you if you want to save (and saying yes brings up the save screen) and then asks if you want to fight him. xD (He even refuses to fight you unless Eric is at least level 5)
I love when games prompt you to save before strong fights. I hate when they don't. Nothing's worse than losing 15 minutes of progress because you didn't realize a huge boss fight was coming up. "Something powerful lurks in this room. Are you sure you want to continue? Yes/No" is what I'd like to see before encountering a tough boss room because then I can just press No, save, and re-enter. Having a save crystal outside this door is also recommended.
After all there's not much sense in not letting let the player save at that very moment if that was what the warning was trying to tell the player to do. If you really had intended for the player backtrack to a save point, you might as well place an autosave there instead.
I remember the Castlevania games for GBA/DS, Order of Ecclesia had a save point before every single boss, it is the first game to do that while the previous 4-5 games just had save points wherever and boss doors wherever. Weird that it took them until OoE to put save points right next to the boss doors.
However I don't think the game had a retry option for bosses which is another things game usually ought to have. Unless you want to change equipment/spells before the battle, in which case retry is terrible design since it forces the player to keep using whatever they happened to have equipped when they entered. Most of the time the player is equipped full of stuff to deal with normal enemies while being helpless against bosses, UNTIL a boss is coming up. Which is another design element that I hate.
It leads us full circle to another dilemma. "Something powerful lurks in this room. Are you sure you want to continue? Yes/No" to let the player know to change their equipment to serious mode. *facepalm*
Maybe games should be designed so that a) most skills are actually effective against bosses for a change, if not ALL skills, b) the game chooses your loadout for you, or c) the game lets you change loadout between retries, or better yet lets you change IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE.
I despise it when I walk into a boss and all my stuff is useless against it because the whole time I had equipped kiddie pretend spells, apparently, such as status effects which bosses are immune to (*cough* Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep) or attacks with too much windup time and therefore impossible to hit the boss with. (*cough* Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep) You'd think the game would let you know that "a boss is in the next room. Un-equip all skills and replace them with eight instances of Curaga? > Yes > No" Also, if something has no effect on bosses then it shouldn't be in the game. -___-
However I don't think the game had a retry option for bosses which is another things game usually ought to have. Unless you want to change equipment/spells before the battle, in which case retry is terrible design since it forces the player to keep using whatever they happened to have equipped when they entered.
Tales of Graces and both Xillias have a "boss retry" option that brings up the menu before reinitiating the boss fight. I think you can even go into the options menu and change the difficulty level or reconfigure controls etc. You can also change your equipment and artes shortcuts mid-battle, but unfortunately not your skills.
Tales bosses really tend to come out of nowhere, though. So many times I reshuffled my equipment and such, only for what could have been a boss to just be dealt with in the cutscene, or vice versa. That irked me more than anything. I ended up watching cutscenes with the same sense of tension and mild dread that I do with games that randomly put instant-death QTEs in their cutscenes.
But hey, since this is the love/hate thread, I'd just like to say that QTEs are literally the dumbest idea in gaming ever. It reverses the role of the player from pushing buttons because they think it's a good idea at the time (playing the game), to just playing Simon Says with the developers (being played by the game). It also forces you to put tacky button prompts on the screen, which just end up looking really silly in "serious" games like God of War. And, as mentioned above, completely ruin the ability to enjoy cutscenes.
(NOTE: I'm talking about the QTEs where you press the button within any moment the prompt is on screen, and the button you have to press is random or otherwise unrelated to what that button normally does in-game. So stuff like "Timed Hits" in Paper Mario or Metal Gear Rising's cinematic Zan-Datsu moments don't really count.)
In this love/hate post, I'll post about elemental traits and what I like/don't like how it's handled in games:
Like:
-Actors with innate resistances/weaknesses. This is a simple and elegant way to ensure there's areas the actor isn't as good and others where she shines. It also makes enemy skills more meaningful than "grab this resistance gear" as you now have to plan around the shift in durabililty.
-Elemental/magical weapons. When your game is already in a fantasy setting where spells can make a continent fly and creating an alternate dimension is a recreational activity, why are your strong guys swinging around ordinary chunks of iron? Where's the swords made of lightning bolts? Spears that can summon blizzards and rainstorms? Geomancy bows that create arrows from the environment?
Dislike:
-Refusing to give out certain elements. Some elements are just kept rare for no reason and makes it unnecessarily difficult to fight enemies weak to them. The Darkness element takes this up to 11 - most of the time, nothing's weak to it, most late/endgame enemies resist/null/absorb it, it's often awkward in usage and you don't get it for >90% of the game while your enemies keep throwing it at you.
-Element stereotypes. It varies from element to element, but writers often can't help but make the character's main element their personality. Ice and Earth users are actually rather varied in personality, but Fire users are generally the fight people who don't think deeply and are easily angered. Once again, Darkness is treated badly as people who use it are either 1. evil 2. brooding anti-heroes 3. brooding anti-heroes who turn evil or 4. making a huge deal out of not being evil. Light isn't much better - it's usually the do-gooder element of hugging and puppy loving. In the games where it isn't, it takes the place as the evil element and the Darkness characters are all Type 4.
Like:
-Actors with innate resistances/weaknesses. This is a simple and elegant way to ensure there's areas the actor isn't as good and others where she shines. It also makes enemy skills more meaningful than "grab this resistance gear" as you now have to plan around the shift in durabililty.
-Elemental/magical weapons. When your game is already in a fantasy setting where spells can make a continent fly and creating an alternate dimension is a recreational activity, why are your strong guys swinging around ordinary chunks of iron? Where's the swords made of lightning bolts? Spears that can summon blizzards and rainstorms? Geomancy bows that create arrows from the environment?
Dislike:
-Refusing to give out certain elements. Some elements are just kept rare for no reason and makes it unnecessarily difficult to fight enemies weak to them. The Darkness element takes this up to 11 - most of the time, nothing's weak to it, most late/endgame enemies resist/null/absorb it, it's often awkward in usage and you don't get it for >90% of the game while your enemies keep throwing it at you.
-Element stereotypes. It varies from element to element, but writers often can't help but make the character's main element their personality. Ice and Earth users are actually rather varied in personality, but Fire users are generally the fight people who don't think deeply and are easily angered. Once again, Darkness is treated badly as people who use it are either 1. evil 2. brooding anti-heroes 3. brooding anti-heroes who turn evil or 4. making a huge deal out of not being evil. Light isn't much better - it's usually the do-gooder element of hugging and puppy loving. In the games where it isn't, it takes the place as the evil element and the Darkness characters are all Type 4.
Like:
- Finding hidden goodies that are well hidden to value exploration
- Male main character controlled by me while all other characters are girls with huge tits
- Fast paced gameplay (Not spending hours in the same city for example, quickly moving from one scene to the next)
- Bosses that are challenging and BECOME PART OF THE TEAM after being defeated
- Character with UNIQUE personality traits, specially the ability to BANTER
Dislike:
- I absolutely hate UNSKIPABLE CUTSCENES that shows SLOW OR UNRELEVANT content or piece of story which I absolutely don't care about.
- NPCs that think that you have all day to talk to them, and also just give you completly out of sync information
- Slow menus, when you press ESC and you have to wait for fading in/out effects to occur, in order to do anything...
That's pretty much it... :)
But I don't think I will be adding much value to the topic anyways :(
- Finding hidden goodies that are well hidden to value exploration
- Male main character controlled by me while all other characters are girls with huge tits
- Fast paced gameplay (Not spending hours in the same city for example, quickly moving from one scene to the next)
- Bosses that are challenging and BECOME PART OF THE TEAM after being defeated
- Character with UNIQUE personality traits, specially the ability to BANTER
Dislike:
- I absolutely hate UNSKIPABLE CUTSCENES that shows SLOW OR UNRELEVANT content or piece of story which I absolutely don't care about.
- NPCs that think that you have all day to talk to them, and also just give you completly out of sync information
- Slow menus, when you press ESC and you have to wait for fading in/out effects to occur, in order to do anything...
That's pretty much it... :)
But I don't think I will be adding much value to the topic anyways :(
author=Kombosabo
Like:- Male main character controlled by me while all other characters are girls with huge tits
ROFL.
author=zeello
I think I've begun to realize why games do that. It's so the player can feel like they're hanging out with a bunch of cute girls. o.o
Which makes sense, since a large amount of media relies on wish fulfillment dreams.
Except girl's wishes. No one will ever grant those. Nor those of any guy who's wishes don't include giant melon boobs. Their only other option is 8-year-old lolis. Once an anime character grows taller than 5'2 they immediately become a DD cup or larger.
- - -
The other annoying thing with elements is when they make a character useless for a battle. Tales of Graces thankfully averted it, but had its own annoying thing in that literally ALL of your moves had a number of elements to them, and all the enemies were weak to numerous elements, so if you really wanted to take advantage of all that, you'd have to memorize a TON of shit. A lot of the associations don't make much sense either. It's like, "so the left kick kills rabbits and the right kick kills dragons!" "what? why?" "SHUT UP AND REMEMBER UR TYPE CHARTS N00B:"
The designers were also inconsistent about how the enemies resisted the elements, so you ended up with fire monsters who were weak to Water-type attacks, and yet also a WATER DRAGON that was WEAK TO WATER ATTACKS. And also fire attacks. I mean... what?
- - -
The other annoying thing with elements is when they make a character useless for a battle. Tales of Graces thankfully averted it, but had its own annoying thing in that literally ALL of your moves had a number of elements to them, and all the enemies were weak to numerous elements, so if you really wanted to take advantage of all that, you'd have to memorize a TON of shit. A lot of the associations don't make much sense either. It's like, "so the left kick kills rabbits and the right kick kills dragons!" "what? why?" "SHUT UP AND REMEMBER UR TYPE CHARTS N00B:"
The designers were also inconsistent about how the enemies resisted the elements, so you ended up with fire monsters who were weak to Water-type attacks, and yet also a WATER DRAGON that was WEAK TO WATER ATTACKS. And also fire attacks. I mean... what?





















