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MONEY AND MOTIVATION
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Max McGee
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CloseSo, lately (for perhaps my last five years of sporadic on and off gam mak) I've had a higher than average amount of trouble sticking to projects long enough to finish them before losing interest in gam mak generally, coming back later, and starting something else that was "new and exciting" at the time. You know how the cycle goes.
And I've found it downright impossible for the last five years to bring anyone on board to help with one of my projects without that person flaking out or vanishing into the internet and turning into a pumpkin at some crucial point where I really needed their contribution to keep me motivated and on task. Often I get super talented and/or semi-famous people who offer to collab or at least pitch in but then they flake out and/or disappear. And honestly, I've been kind of an on-and-off flaky internet pumpkin myself for blueperiod, the creator of the spectacular LINUS, and I feel pretty ashamed about that.
The last...six...serious projects I launched the development of, I told myself something like "it's reasonable to have this be a freeware game to start, and then to consider monetizing it and taking it commercial once I have a substantial amount of progress done, if I'm impressed with the results I have and it seems to "deserve" commercialization. This seemed like a reasonable position at the time.
So I thought to myself today: I make tabletop games as a business, and in that arena my rate of finishing and releasing products is damn near 100%. Because there are financial stakes and it feels real, like work. Getting bored and losing interest doesn't even feel like an option because products have overhead costs and consumers have preorders through KS and so on, i.e. there is MONEY involved.
So my question is...if I monetize a project as commercial from the getgo will that increase the chances that I will stay on board to finish and release something?
More importantly, if I "put my money where my mouth is", will it make internet dev help (i.e. "hiring a team" or "hiring a partner") a reliable, viable option? Or even with paychecks and commissions on the line, do people still flake out and turn into internet pumpkins regularly in the vidya sector?
Even more importantly, if I declare a priori that the design of "Game Project XYZ" will be a business from the outset, will gam mak still be fun?
It occurs to me that these questions seem of interest to devs in general, so please discuss?
And I've found it downright impossible for the last five years to bring anyone on board to help with one of my projects without that person flaking out or vanishing into the internet and turning into a pumpkin at some crucial point where I really needed their contribution to keep me motivated and on task. Often I get super talented and/or semi-famous people who offer to collab or at least pitch in but then they flake out and/or disappear. And honestly, I've been kind of an on-and-off flaky internet pumpkin myself for blueperiod, the creator of the spectacular LINUS, and I feel pretty ashamed about that.
The last...six...serious projects I launched the development of, I told myself something like "it's reasonable to have this be a freeware game to start, and then to consider monetizing it and taking it commercial once I have a substantial amount of progress done, if I'm impressed with the results I have and it seems to "deserve" commercialization. This seemed like a reasonable position at the time.
So I thought to myself today: I make tabletop games as a business, and in that arena my rate of finishing and releasing products is damn near 100%. Because there are financial stakes and it feels real, like work. Getting bored and losing interest doesn't even feel like an option because products have overhead costs and consumers have preorders through KS and so on, i.e. there is MONEY involved.
So my question is...if I monetize a project as commercial from the getgo will that increase the chances that I will stay on board to finish and release something?
More importantly, if I "put my money where my mouth is", will it make internet dev help (i.e. "hiring a team" or "hiring a partner") a reliable, viable option? Or even with paychecks and commissions on the line, do people still flake out and turn into internet pumpkins regularly in the vidya sector?
Even more importantly, if I declare a priori that the design of "Game Project XYZ" will be a business from the outset, will gam mak still be fun?
It occurs to me that these questions seem of interest to devs in general, so please discuss?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Here is a direct quote of the plot summary from Wikipedia's article on the 1936 novel Keep the Aspidistra Flying
LockeZ has 'declared war' on what he sees as an 'overarching dependence' on money by leaving a promising job as a graphic designer for a consulting company called 'Public Art and Practice' — at which he shows great dexterity — and taking a low-paying job instead, ostensibly so he can design games. Coming from a respectable family background in which the inherited wealth has now become dissipated, LockeZ resents having to work for a living. The 'war' (and the game design), however, aren't going particularly well and, under the stress of his 'self-imposed exile' from affluence, LockeZ has become absurd, petty and deeply neurotic.
Motivation is not something to get you through any serious investment - it will make you start it, and enjoy it every now and then more than usual.
What you need is dedication.
Dedication means treating it as something you simply want and have to do, come what may. Reward yourself for tiny steps, make tiny daily goals.
Money works a similar way, as it is a necessity to live and survive - it may very well help you.
It won't be enough if you hate what you are doing and if the work is really hard on you, but it will certainly help you.
I imagine it being similar for hiring a team .. it will make it less likely, but people always have the option of flaking out.
What you need is dedication.
Dedication means treating it as something you simply want and have to do, come what may. Reward yourself for tiny steps, make tiny daily goals.
Money works a similar way, as it is a necessity to live and survive - it may very well help you.
It won't be enough if you hate what you are doing and if the work is really hard on you, but it will certainly help you.
I imagine it being similar for hiring a team .. it will make it less likely, but people always have the option of flaking out.
Sometimes it honestly feels a lot like I'm the unreliable jerk flaking out on myself.
So I wonder if I paid my bills if that would be any different...this sentence is making less and less sense isn't it.
So I wonder if I paid my bills if that would be any different...this sentence is making less and less sense isn't it.
From personal experience.
1.) Trust+ Proven Discipline + Money = you can actually get something out. The chances of someone flaking is really low. I find that real professional artists, programmers or composers are fast and can maintain a standard of quality, ofc it depends on your standards of quality too. So asking a hobbyist isn't really reliable 50% of the time. (Like I used to be ahaha with backstage 2 orz)
I won't lie but money actually helps me stick to finishing something. I'M OLD aaaaaaaaa.
2.) Discipline, not motivation. = I think this is self explanatory. Motivation is fleeting. It's time to work as a professional and keep trudging on without having to rely on it.
3.) When commissioning others, make it that it works your workflow. Do not depend on them on huge tasks. If you absolutely have to, leave it like breadcrumbs that won't make them feel overwhelmed. Although if they're professionals, this shouldn't be a worry anyway.
4.) Be firm. Don't be wishy washy about it. People tend to be lax and overestimate how much they can put it aside. You will be busy. Disappearing won't help at all with the situation. You don't have to be working on the game but you have to make sure the hired help is working (and getting paid). If they deliver their side of the work and you got back from...the clutches of evil...then at least you have materials.
5.) Work smart, not hard. Make your shit modular or reusable. If you don't want to work on x game anymore, at least the shit you made for it can be reused for another game. It's why I made sure the Luna Engine gets created so I don't have to be stuck with one layout for a project and remake the same thing on another project.
1.) Trust+ Proven Discipline + Money = you can actually get something out. The chances of someone flaking is really low. I find that real professional artists, programmers or composers are fast and can maintain a standard of quality, ofc it depends on your standards of quality too. So asking a hobbyist isn't really reliable 50% of the time. (Like I used to be ahaha with backstage 2 orz)
I won't lie but money actually helps me stick to finishing something. I'M OLD aaaaaaaaa.
2.) Discipline, not motivation. = I think this is self explanatory. Motivation is fleeting. It's time to work as a professional and keep trudging on without having to rely on it.
3.) When commissioning others, make it that it works your workflow. Do not depend on them on huge tasks. If you absolutely have to, leave it like breadcrumbs that won't make them feel overwhelmed. Although if they're professionals, this shouldn't be a worry anyway.
4.) Be firm. Don't be wishy washy about it. People tend to be lax and overestimate how much they can put it aside. You will be busy. Disappearing won't help at all with the situation. You don't have to be working on the game but you have to make sure the hired help is working (and getting paid). If they deliver their side of the work and you got back from...the clutches of evil...then at least you have materials.
5.) Work smart, not hard. Make your shit modular or reusable. If you don't want to work on x game anymore, at least the shit you made for it can be reused for another game. It's why I made sure the Luna Engine gets created so I don't have to be stuck with one layout for a project and remake the same thing on another project.
"Discipline, not motivation. = I think this is self explanatory. Motivation is fleeting. It's time to work as a professional and keep trudging on without having to rely on it. "
Yes. True. But...Discipline is really very difficult to maintain when it's ... in the service of something that's relatively ephemeral. Like one's desire that a game exist. Or even one's desire for the recognition of creating a game, or one's ego. All of these things are...they're rather ephemeral. They don't inspire the discipline to finish a task as staunchly as an empty stomach or an empty fridge does. Basically, discipline is hard to maintain when it's not in the service of feeding your family or feeding your bank account or paying your bills. Even knowing that a lot of people are waiting for you to produce a game (maybe a few hundred of them backed your KS, for instance) can certainly "inspire" a huge amount of discipline from a socially responsible individual. I know it keeps me "motivated".
Some people have ironclad discipline but I have honestly always been rather weak willed...and I think my discipline was stronger when I was younger. Maybe. Or maybe when I was younger I was just way more excited about (say) Iron Gaia being a game and that excitement kept me going through the long drudgery of development, and through the desert of feedback and encouragement in the long middle.
Paradoxically, while it's hard for me to think of any video game idea that it wouldn't be fun to work on for a little while, it's even harder for me to think of any video game idea that I could actually take all the way to completion these days.
I guess...another way of saying this is...personally speaking, I have a lot of trouble doing things for a prolonged period of time if they aren't being done for a) fun or b) profit. Sticking to a task that I'm not getting paid for and that I don't like is really, really hard for me...for anyone, I think. That's why I've kind of been riding the fleeting waves of motivation for years as an amateur/hobbyist game developer.
Also weirdly I am in the position where I actually could pay myself to make RPG Maker games and it actually would make a kind of sense. I co-own a company with a substantial operating budget so yes, I do effectively "pay" myself for various things already, pursuant to my actual business. Which is actually making games...just not of the vidya kind.
Yes. True. But...Discipline is really very difficult to maintain when it's ... in the service of something that's relatively ephemeral. Like one's desire that a game exist. Or even one's desire for the recognition of creating a game, or one's ego. All of these things are...they're rather ephemeral. They don't inspire the discipline to finish a task as staunchly as an empty stomach or an empty fridge does. Basically, discipline is hard to maintain when it's not in the service of feeding your family or feeding your bank account or paying your bills. Even knowing that a lot of people are waiting for you to produce a game (maybe a few hundred of them backed your KS, for instance) can certainly "inspire" a huge amount of discipline from a socially responsible individual. I know it keeps me "motivated".
Some people have ironclad discipline but I have honestly always been rather weak willed...and I think my discipline was stronger when I was younger. Maybe. Or maybe when I was younger I was just way more excited about (say) Iron Gaia being a game and that excitement kept me going through the long drudgery of development, and through the desert of feedback and encouragement in the long middle.
Paradoxically, while it's hard for me to think of any video game idea that it wouldn't be fun to work on for a little while, it's even harder for me to think of any video game idea that I could actually take all the way to completion these days.
I guess...another way of saying this is...personally speaking, I have a lot of trouble doing things for a prolonged period of time if they aren't being done for a) fun or b) profit. Sticking to a task that I'm not getting paid for and that I don't like is really, really hard for me...for anyone, I think. That's why I've kind of been riding the fleeting waves of motivation for years as an amateur/hobbyist game developer.
Also weirdly I am in the position where I actually could pay myself to make RPG Maker games and it actually would make a kind of sense. I co-own a company with a substantial operating budget so yes, I do effectively "pay" myself for various things already, pursuant to my actual business. Which is actually making games...just not of the vidya kind.
I know what you mean how hard it is to keep working on something prolonged. It's why I changed the way I work too. Episodical releases. It keeps the motivation, feedback and will to keep going.
Or you can just make a commercial game and consider it as a a sideline profitable business.
"Retreat and Attack from another direction" as it goes.
Or you can just make a commercial game and consider it as a a sideline profitable business.
"Retreat and Attack from another direction" as it goes.
TheNecromancer
3160
I tried to convince myself that I was going to make games for a living. I wasn't able to find work at the time and I had just started doing more pixel art that was turning out pretty good. I was writing story stuff and more and more gameplay stuff about my first all custom game. But without any actual costs or commitments, it didn't pan out. I eventually found work and haven't even drawn a single thing since then.
Your experience may vary.
Maybe if I actually took a step into it and started hiring people, putting money down somewhere, I would have felt a compulsion to keep going with it. I did put thought into it. Name of the "company", ideas, where I want to go, thinking about tax related stuff, talked to a local service about a legit business plan. I really enjoy it, too. So that wasn't an issue. I never did anything similar for money, so at least you have that experience with tabletop games.
Plus I'm kinda lazy. Procrastinate. A slacker. I was never really suited for it so it will remain a hobby.
Your experience may vary.
Maybe if I actually took a step into it and started hiring people, putting money down somewhere, I would have felt a compulsion to keep going with it. I did put thought into it. Name of the "company", ideas, where I want to go, thinking about tax related stuff, talked to a local service about a legit business plan. I really enjoy it, too. So that wasn't an issue. I never did anything similar for money, so at least you have that experience with tabletop games.
Plus I'm kinda lazy. Procrastinate. A slacker. I was never really suited for it so it will remain a hobby.
Rine
1378
Personally, to keep myself motivated I've set myself hard deadlines. I gave myself two weeks to get to a playtestable state to check character balance, and now I'm forcing myself to do weekly updates, adding a few new missions and characters each time, along with updating old stuff. That may only work for my style of game, since each mission is separate (for now) from each other, and I can add features as I go to further round out the game.
As someone said though, if you have trouble maintaining motivation, find out why and fix it. Are you wanting to work on something you find fun, but when you work on another part you grind to a halt? Then work on the hard stuff first, then 'reward' yourself by working for a bit on the more fun things. IE, I did all the hard code work first in my game, then rewarded myself by cranking out characters.
As someone said though, if you have trouble maintaining motivation, find out why and fix it. Are you wanting to work on something you find fun, but when you work on another part you grind to a halt? Then work on the hard stuff first, then 'reward' yourself by working for a bit on the more fun things. IE, I did all the hard code work first in my game, then rewarded myself by cranking out characters.
SnowOwl
5188
You should perhaps try making shorter games, since your attention span seems low, like mine. All the long games I've tried to make, I never finished, but I still love making games. So I decided to shorten my games by a factor of ten.
Seems to me that would solve most of the problems you seem to have and you can go on being the slacker you were born to be. I don't think money is necessarily a solution, and in some cases if you get stressed about the game not selling it could be the opposite.
Also, try to make games that minimize the parts that you don't like doing. That's a big one. There will always be some parts of gamemaking that you won't enjoy much if you do everything yourself, but you can do your best to minimize those. Don't like scripting? Use other peoples scripts. The RPG Maker community doesn't really force you to do anything if you don't really want to, except possibly coming up with the idea for the game, which I don't think anyone ever had problems with.
Seems to me that would solve most of the problems you seem to have and you can go on being the slacker you were born to be. I don't think money is necessarily a solution, and in some cases if you get stressed about the game not selling it could be the opposite.
Also, try to make games that minimize the parts that you don't like doing. That's a big one. There will always be some parts of gamemaking that you won't enjoy much if you do everything yourself, but you can do your best to minimize those. Don't like scripting? Use other peoples scripts. The RPG Maker community doesn't really force you to do anything if you don't really want to, except possibly coming up with the idea for the game, which I don't think anyone ever had problems with.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=SatedAww, why? It's okay, I'll forget about it by next week.
I wish I had never mentioned this book to you... but it's also by a pretty damn well known author so I can't really take responsibility.
Real talk: I've never personally seen anyone just randomly disappear from a project when being paid but I've also never had the inside scoop on a project where the people getting paid were being expected to stick around through the whole project. What I have seen, repeatedly, is a project leader offering to pay someone for some resources or script work, getting what they asked for, paying that person, and then cutting ties with that artist or scripter... and then going on to never finish making the game. On the plus side, at least we seem to be immune to the sunk cost fallacy...?
Money's never been a motivation for me, I just wanna make fun intriguing games for fellas to enjoy, selfless as that sounds of me, that's what makes me feel awesome.
Infinite
2103
Try putting your new ideas into your old projects, as mini games, or side quests. Doing that has helped me stay faithful to one project.
It may also be a good idea to keep your goals/projects to yourself. Don't show anyone your game until it's nearly done, or you could get a false sense of accomplishment when everyone tells you how cool your game looks (or get discouraged from negative feedback). Derek Sivers the creator of CD baby suggested this in this TED talk.
It may also be a good idea to keep your goals/projects to yourself. Don't show anyone your game until it's nearly done, or you could get a false sense of accomplishment when everyone tells you how cool your game looks (or get discouraged from negative feedback). Derek Sivers the creator of CD baby suggested this in this TED talk.
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