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MCBACON JAM (2?) POST MORTEM
Posts
Marrend
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CloseSo, for the next one, could we possibly be talking something more like Game Name Game, where it's more about concepts and the presentation thereof?
Housekeeping
3571
author=unity
After being in two of these, I'm feeling really defeated when it comes to team games. I'm really happy to see that others have had good results with the jams, but I really haven't enjoyed these. This isn't a complaint, as there's really no one at fault, but I don't think I'd enter a third one of these, as it's extremely frustrating to put in a lot of effort and have things still not work out.
Just sit a few of these out, unity; you're probably stretching yourself too thin. I kind of doubt I'll enter another one of these until I finish Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass, but it's a great way to get a feel for other developers, what they value in game dev, and what their work ethic is like. Plus, like Red_Nova said, you learn things here and there.
I'm not in everyone else's heads, but I imagine that scope was the major issue for people not finishing their games on time. Maybe put a strict game length into effect for the next jam. The old hour rule is a good standard, but it might be cool (and more easily obtainable) to see something like an "under ten minute" game, for example.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I feel like people should be able to figure out on their own what kind of scope is reasonable in that time frame. We got a four hour long game done in the first jam, but that was because three out of the four of us worked way over a hundred hours on it in that time, maybe even two hundred hours each.
The problem I see in most teams of this type doesn't come from wanting to make the game too long - it comes when you get a team where people have wildly different expectations of how much time they're going to spend. If the mapper spends 150 hours making several large winding dungeons with lots of interactive traps, and the person in charge of the story and gameplay was only planning two spend 10 hours total working on the project, you're not going to finish.
Basically, these blindly, hastily assembled teams are mostly just incapable of working together. When a team is actually compatible, it's because of pure dumb luck.
However I really like the IDEA of an event to work with people you've talked to a lot on the forums but have never worked with before, and I feel like there's gotta be a better way to make it work. What was different in the first jam? It did so much better. Did everyone just power through it because of their anticipation and the novelty of the idea? Did they use up their true dream-teams in the first event, and this one was working with their second pick? Do we actually need a month for this?
The problem I see in most teams of this type doesn't come from wanting to make the game too long - it comes when you get a team where people have wildly different expectations of how much time they're going to spend. If the mapper spends 150 hours making several large winding dungeons with lots of interactive traps, and the person in charge of the story and gameplay was only planning two spend 10 hours total working on the project, you're not going to finish.
Basically, these blindly, hastily assembled teams are mostly just incapable of working together. When a team is actually compatible, it's because of pure dumb luck.
However I really like the IDEA of an event to work with people you've talked to a lot on the forums but have never worked with before, and I feel like there's gotta be a better way to make it work. What was different in the first jam? It did so much better. Did everyone just power through it because of their anticipation and the novelty of the idea? Did they use up their true dream-teams in the first event, and this one was working with their second pick? Do we actually need a month for this?
author=Housekeepingauthor=unityJust sit a few of these out, unity; you're probably stretching yourself too thin. I kind of doubt I'll enter another one of these until I finish Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass, but it's a great way to get a feel for other developers, what they value in game dev, and what their work ethic is like. Plus, like Red_Nova said, you learn things here and there.
After being in two of these, I'm feeling really defeated when it comes to team games. I'm really happy to see that others have had good results with the jams, but I really haven't enjoyed these. This isn't a complaint, as there's really no one at fault, but I don't think I'd enter a third one of these, as it's extremely frustrating to put in a lot of effort and have things still not work out.
You're probably right. I probably just need time to recover. And I did learn a lot even though no games came of it. I could be taking this harder than I should; I was possibly the most enthusiastic about teaming up with people, and it blew up in my face, twice, and that hurt. So, for the time being, I'm wary of getting hurt again, but maybe someday in the future, I'll be ready to try again.
author=LockeZ
I feel like people should be able to figure out on their own what kind of scope is reasonable in that time frame. We got a four hour long game done in the first jam, but that was because three out of the four of us worked way over a hundred hours on it in that time, maybe even two hundred hours each.
The problem I see in most teams of this type doesn't come from wanting to make the game too long - it comes when you get a team where people have wildly different expectations of how much time they're going to spend. If the mapper spends 150 hours making several large winding dungeons with lots of interactive traps, and the person in charge of the story and gameplay was only planning two spend 10 hours total working on the project, you're not going to finish.
Basically, these blindly, hastily assembled teams are mostly just incapable of working together. When a team is actually compatible, it's because of pure dumb luck.
However I really like the IDEA of an event to work with people you've talked to a lot on the forums but have never worked with before, and I feel like there's gotta be a better way to make it work. What was different in the first jam? It did so much better. Did everyone just power through it because of their anticipation and the novelty of the idea? Did they use up their true dream-teams in the first event, and this one was working with their second pick? Do we actually need a month for this?
Timing was a big one I'll admit. Doing this right after IGMC ended for the makers and judging began. I also think I'll have a couple people working with me to make sure things work out better. Also, #2 will be the last one for this year folks. If you really want any more game jams out of me before that; they'll have to be weekend long only ones.
author=LockeZ
I feel like people should be able to figure out on their own what kind of scope is reasonable in that time frame. We got a four hour long game done in the first jam, but that was because three out of the four of us worked way over a hundred hours on it in that time, maybe even two hundred hours each.
The problem I see in most teams of this type doesn't come from wanting to make the game too long - it comes when you get a team where people have wildly different expectations of how much time they're going to spend. If the mapper spends 150 hours making several large winding dungeons with lots of interactive traps, and the person in charge of the story and gameplay was only planning two spend 10 hours total working on the project, you're not going to finish.
Basically, these blindly, hastily assembled teams are mostly just incapable of working together. When a team is actually compatible, it's because of pure dumb luck.
However I really like the IDEA of an event to work with people you've talked to a lot on the forums but have never worked with before, and I feel like there's gotta be a better way to make it work. What was different in the first jam? It did so much better. Did everyone just power through it because of their anticipation and the novelty of the idea? Did they use up their true dream-teams in the first event, and this one was working with their second pick? Do we actually need a month for this?
I think what you mentioned here was part of the issue. There were many members who had busy irl schedules to deal with alongside the event, and from at least what I can gather through talking to some other participants (Joseph kindly revealed to me what went on with Team Yuri, and I'm really sorry about that), quite a few participants didn't really communicate their ideas or didn't get organized until it was too late.
If there is anything we could do with the next event, is probably give tips on how to combat this issue, but otherwise there was really nothing wrong with the event itself. I think what happened here was a matter of circumstance.
While I think last time we had a lot more games turn out in the end this time is getting more refined results even if it may take awhile for everyone to get there entry out. Overall a success I would say because hey we all worked on something for three weeks for a change.
@Unity I agree with housekeeping you need a rest! A lot of jams are hit or miss experiences and when they're longer they can really feel like a bigger defeat than one you may have done in 48 hours.
@Unity I agree with housekeeping you need a rest! A lot of jams are hit or miss experiences and when they're longer they can really feel like a bigger defeat than one you may have done in 48 hours.
author=charblar
While I think last time we had a lot more games turn out in the end this time is getting more refined results even if it may take awhile for everyone to get there entry out. Overall a success I would say because hey we all worked on something for three weeks for a change.
Correction: 32 days. 4 weeks, and 4 days. XD
Skie Fortress
2394
I dunno, man.
I had a lot of fun working with my team. I'd say the point was more about working with new people and nurturing a concept together. Of course, if something playable comes out of it in the time frame of the event, awesome. But I think there's more to take away from this event than just whether a playable game came out of it.We will continue working on our game though. No way we'll just throw that work away.
Just my two cents.
I had a lot of fun working with my team. I'd say the point was more about working with new people and nurturing a concept together. Of course, if something playable comes out of it in the time frame of the event, awesome. But I think there's more to take away from this event than just whether a playable game came out of it.
Just my two cents.
I think you need something like Befuddle Quest, where it's all one game and people just submit maps with events.
(But even that hasn't been finished yet.)
psy_wombats
13315
I would recommend more heads-up time for schedule planning. It's a lot easier to set aside two weeks when you're aware a month in advance as opposed to a week (or -5 days if you're me, oh well.)
Also extensions last time were very very stressful and discouraging. Committing to a two-week sprint/jam/contest/whatever is a lot different than committing to two weeks +x days. That's just scary and makes me not want to sign up for another.
Team members need to be up front about what they can and can't commit to. Just do the nature of working with random strangers, just someone's word isn't that strong, but it's better than nothing. I realize I'm not exactly in the green as I didn't participate in this event, but just my two cents.
Also extensions last time were very very stressful and discouraging. Committing to a two-week sprint/jam/contest/whatever is a lot different than committing to two weeks +x days. That's just scary and makes me not want to sign up for another.
Team members need to be up front about what they can and can't commit to. Just do the nature of working with random strangers, just someone's word isn't that strong, but it's better than nothing. I realize I'm not exactly in the green as I didn't participate in this event, but just my two cents.
author=Skie Fortress
I dunno, man.
I had a lot of fun working with my team. I'd say the point was more about working with new people and nurturing a concept together. Of course, if something playable comes out of it in the time frame of the event, awesome. But I think there's more to take away from this event than just whether a playable game came out of it.We will continue working on our game though. No way we'll just throw that work away.
Just my two cents.
It would be nice to see you release something new, and doubly so if rhyme is involved.
author=kory_toombs
I think you need something like Befuddle Quest, where it's all one game and people just submit maps with events.
(But even that hasn't been finished yet.)
I would like to do a full, large group collab at some point, but no idea of what exactly to do for that. My PM box is always open to suggestions though!
author=psy_wombats
I would recommend more heads-up time for schedule planning. It's a lot easier to set aside two weeks when you're aware a month in advance as opposed to a week (or -5 days if you're me, oh well.)
Also extensions last time were very very stressful and discouraging. Committing to a two-week sprint/jam/contest/whatever is a lot different than committing to two weeks +x days. That's just scary and makes me not want to sign up for another.
Team members need to be up front about what they can and can't commit to. Just do the nature of working with random strangers, just someone's word isn't that strong, but it's better than nothing. I realize I'm not exactly in the green as I didn't participate in this event, but just my two cents.
More heads up will be give for sure, and I would like to do things in a very lax way, to where an extension would be pretty absurd. I have a lot of plotting and consulting to do, not to mention there wont be a 3rd one for a good while as it stands.
Hasvers
1298
Well I think you can be either more lax or less. Well defined boundaries are helpful too, and it seems it's what most people here are asking for. It could also be helpful to first put people into pools depending on their expectations/commitment level.
Unity> I hear you, 90% of my team experiences have reminded me that I work better alone, sometimes it really burns.
I enjoyed taking part in the first jam though! We had some setbacks but it still feels like a net positive, if only because compromising with others implies going out of one's comfort zone, hopefully in interesting ways. bp and I will finish that game someday.
Unity> I hear you, 90% of my team experiences have reminded me that I work better alone, sometimes it really burns.
I enjoyed taking part in the first jam though! We had some setbacks but it still feels like a net positive, if only because compromising with others implies going out of one's comfort zone, hopefully in interesting ways. bp and I will finish that game someday.
author=unity
You're probably right. I probably just need time to recover. And I did learn a lot even though no games came of it. I could be taking this harder than I should; I was possibly the most enthusiastic about teaming up with people, and it blew up in my face, twice, and that hurt. So, for the time being, I'm wary of getting hurt again, but maybe someday in the future, I'll be ready to try again.
I don't know why that is, because both times I've joined the McBacon Jam my team has been successful in submitting on time. I think one needs to be careful about who they team with, but even still, I think it's important for each team member to enter with the thought process going into it that, "I'm going to give my all into this, even if I end up finishing it all by myself and I'll credit it to the team anyway". It's a statement of humility that you'll be willing to work hard on it even if no-one else does. I was just blessed to have a team that worked just as hard as I did, and I'm glad of the result.
That said, I am sad that you mightn't be so glad on joining McBacon #3, if only for the selfish idea that I want to team with you (WHO DOESN'T), or maybe it's my personal want to somehow prove to you that team games aren't so bad (even though I think you already know that, having finished the beautiful Remnants with people you love.
In short, dramas happen, not everyone is created equal, and I think we need to just soldier on no matter what.
author=Housekeeping
but it's a great way to get a feel for other developers, what they value in game dev, and what their work ethic is like. Plus, like Red_Nova said, you learn things here and there.
This is definitely useful. Often my first impressions of someone were not quite right. I guess in a way it's kind of like rolling dice -- you never quite know if you're going to get a partner you work well with, but when you do, the friendship will last forever. JosephSeraph can vouch for that, not that I can claim complete and sole partnership with him since he's so popular now and I get slightly jealous that he actually has friends other than me. He's a popular dude.
author=Skie Fortress
I had a lot of fun working with my team. I'd say the point was more about working with new people and nurturing a concept together. Of course, if something playable comes out of it in the time frame of the event, awesome. But I think there's more to take away from this event than just whether a playable game came out of it. We will continue working on our game though. No way we'll just throw that work away.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm at least going to be refining Champs until I find the fun in the game, and I'm sure whoever of my teammates will still be keen will pitch in, too.
author=kory
I think you need something like Befuddle Quest, where it's all one game and people just submit maps with events.
(But even that hasn't been finished yet.)
That's purely because kentona is super busy and has a life along with demands of kids and wife and job. If it was a dude/tte staying home everyday by himself on university holidays in his/her room with a sizable amount of motivation, then Befuddle might be done.
I think in our team's case, we simply overreached and gave ourselves too much to do. I think our programmer was even sick part of the time in addition to dealing with RL. I can't say that there was anything wrong with the team. Everyone delivered: we just overextended.
author=pianotm
I think in our team's case, we simply overreached and gave ourselves too much to do. I think our programmer was even sick part of the time in addition to dealing with RL. I can't say that there was anything wrong with the team. Everyone delivered: we just overextended.
Yeah, I mean it's a team game jam. Results aren't necessarily gonna be pretty. But we try, and sometimes succeed! Woo!
author=CashmereCat
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm at least going to be refining Champs until I find the fun in the game, and I'm sure whoever of my teammates will still be keen will pitch in, too.
I have quite a bit of other projects that I need to attend to at the moment, but if you ever need any more art assets (on a small scale) for the game, give me a hollar!
You, Marrend, and Captainregal were all great to work with, and while it's not a final product, I'm glad that we actually got something out there within the timespan.
I haven't read any of the posts here, but I feel awfully lost after the mbj2.
It's like it tilted me in all wrong directions and set me on collision course to saturn or something.
I'm still looking forward to a third one though?
*sigh* I'll be more psychologically prepared by then.
Also I'm ignoring a lot of people and avoiding social contact like the plague. I'm awfully sorry for that too. I'll get back in track in a while.
It's like it tilted me in all wrong directions and set me on collision course to saturn or something.
I'm still looking forward to a third one though?
*sigh* I'll be more psychologically prepared by then.
Also I'm ignoring a lot of people and avoiding social contact like the plague. I'm awfully sorry for that too. I'll get back in track in a while.
I think when we enter a team jam be ready for conflict and expect the worst, but try for the best. Try to minimize social conflict as much as possible and don't get your hopes too high, so that they'll be exceeded and you'll find joy in the end product no matter what. This involves setting tolerance for team failure at a high, while still keeping excellence as a main virtue, which may perhaps seem like a difficult balancing act, but I think it's worth it.
