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FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES AS TESTERS: IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE THAT WORK?
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Gretgor
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CloseHi, everyone! I'm in need of some insight and advice.
Back when I was younger, and made a few (lackluster) games, I didn't understand how important test playing was, not only for finding bugs, but also to discover whether our game was engaging enough, how people experience it, etcetera. Recently, I've come to realize (not on my own, obviously) that testing is an essential part of solid game design, and that it's naive to think I'd be able to output something good unless I could get subjective feedback from test players.
The problem is: I'm a very shy person and not very gregarious, so I really don't have what it takes to convince people I barely know to test play my games as I watch them. I thought I'd simply ask family members and loved ones to take a look at what I've made and give me their feedback, which is a flawed testing method.
The obvious problems with that are:
I thought I'd simply tell them to "take a look at this game I found" instead of saying it's my game, which would get rid of problem #1, but not problem #2, because they'd be expecting something great, since I told them to take a look at a specific game.
What are your thoughts on this matter? Is there any way to make test plays from loved ones as unbiased as possible? If not, is there any way a shy, introverted fellow such as myself could get other people to give him feedback?
Thanks in advance!
Back when I was younger, and made a few (lackluster) games, I didn't understand how important test playing was, not only for finding bugs, but also to discover whether our game was engaging enough, how people experience it, etcetera. Recently, I've come to realize (not on my own, obviously) that testing is an essential part of solid game design, and that it's naive to think I'd be able to output something good unless I could get subjective feedback from test players.
The problem is: I'm a very shy person and not very gregarious, so I really don't have what it takes to convince people I barely know to test play my games as I watch them. I thought I'd simply ask family members and loved ones to take a look at what I've made and give me their feedback, which is a flawed testing method.
The obvious problems with that are:
- They are obviously going to be biased, since they are close to me.
- They're probably gonna force themselves to get into the game, since I'm explicitly asking them to take a look.
I thought I'd simply tell them to "take a look at this game I found" instead of saying it's my game, which would get rid of problem #1, but not problem #2, because they'd be expecting something great, since I told them to take a look at a specific game.
What are your thoughts on this matter? Is there any way to make test plays from loved ones as unbiased as possible? If not, is there any way a shy, introverted fellow such as myself could get other people to give him feedback?
Thanks in advance!
This all depends on how accustomed your close friends and folks are to playing games. Even when they are giving feedback that seems one-sided, there is always a chance where they may say something that doesn't sound like it adds up with what you are trying to do with your game.
No matter who is testing, you should actually not take every complaint literally and read between the lines. For instance, I think in one of slashpheonix's games, he had very small maps that people got lost in and requested the inclusing of a minimap, which seemed impractical to the developer since the map sizes were so small. He then realized, however, that the actuall problem was that his maps were too complex... He can obviously explain the situation a lot better, but the point is that certain feedback may actually be a symptom of a potentially larger issue.
Still, you need to break out of that comfort zone and get an unfamiliar crowd to test your game for you. That really is the best way to get the most genuine feedback.
No matter who is testing, you should actually not take every complaint literally and read between the lines. For instance, I think in one of slashpheonix's games, he had very small maps that people got lost in and requested the inclusing of a minimap, which seemed impractical to the developer since the map sizes were so small. He then realized, however, that the actuall problem was that his maps were too complex... He can obviously explain the situation a lot better, but the point is that certain feedback may actually be a symptom of a potentially larger issue.
Still, you need to break out of that comfort zone and get an unfamiliar crowd to test your game for you. That really is the best way to get the most genuine feedback.
Like many others, I've had poor luck getting friends and loved ones to playtest games in the past. Not just because of the bias issue but because friends and family may not always necessarily understand what kind of feedback you're looking for if (and that's a strong "if") they do end up playing it.
I'm not an expert on playtest intricacies in the least but here are a few things that helped me out when asking friends:
Don't ask just one person
Be prepared to ask more than two or three people to try your game, especially when it comes to friends and family. If you ask 10 people to try it, maybe 2 or 3 will actually do so.
You might have better luck if you ask people who have genuinely shown interest in your project. Remember: most people who don't develop games are unlikely have a grasp on the kind of work that goes into developing a video game, even on small-scale RPG Maker projects. Many of your friends are likely looking for high-quality games that are guaranteed to be worth their time.
Look for the signs of a flaky playtester. If they say something like "Cool, I'll look into it sometime" or "I'll give it a try if I get the time" they are probably not going to play it.
Ask people in advance
Don't message your friend one day and say "I made this, please try it." If you contact people ahead of time, say a week or two before your build is ready, they won't feel so much on the spotlight and will feel less like they're obligated to help you out.
If they do play it, provide a way to get people to quantify their experience
As much as I'm sure you like hearing "I tried your game, I liked it a lot!" that's probably not the feedback you're looking for. If someone does come to you and say they completed your build, have something like a short, informal survey ready.
I'm not an expert on playtest intricacies in the least but here are a few things that helped me out when asking friends:
Don't ask just one person
Be prepared to ask more than two or three people to try your game, especially when it comes to friends and family. If you ask 10 people to try it, maybe 2 or 3 will actually do so.
You might have better luck if you ask people who have genuinely shown interest in your project. Remember: most people who don't develop games are unlikely have a grasp on the kind of work that goes into developing a video game, even on small-scale RPG Maker projects. Many of your friends are likely looking for high-quality games that are guaranteed to be worth their time.
Look for the signs of a flaky playtester. If they say something like "Cool, I'll look into it sometime" or "I'll give it a try if I get the time" they are probably not going to play it.
Ask people in advance
Don't message your friend one day and say "I made this, please try it." If you contact people ahead of time, say a week or two before your build is ready, they won't feel so much on the spotlight and will feel less like they're obligated to help you out.
If they do play it, provide a way to get people to quantify their experience
As much as I'm sure you like hearing "I tried your game, I liked it a lot!" that's probably not the feedback you're looking for. If someone does come to you and say they completed your build, have something like a short, informal survey ready.
Thanks, guys!
I'll eventually have to break out of my comfort zone, that is the truth :( if I never do that, I might never be able to release the games I've been dreaming of.
The idea of an informal survey is nice. I'm definitely going to use it, but I have to find a way to not make people feel like they're doing a school quiz as they answer it. Maybe ask them in an informal conversation about this and that?
I'll eventually have to break out of my comfort zone, that is the truth :( if I never do that, I might never be able to release the games I've been dreaming of.
The idea of an informal survey is nice. I'm definitely going to use it, but I have to find a way to not make people feel like they're doing a school quiz as they answer it. Maybe ask them in an informal conversation about this and that?
LightningLord2
230
Maybe you want to watch them play - you could spot problematic things if a segment appears too easy for your tastes or get stuck on a supposedly simple puzzle and so on.
There's another, much more daring way to get your game playtested - upload it here. You'd get feedback faster than anything else, but the amount of critique can be tough to deal with.
There's another, much more daring way to get your game playtested - upload it here. You'd get feedback faster than anything else, but the amount of critique can be tough to deal with.
author=kentona
love your friends and befriend your lovers
Not sure that would help much, that'd only make them even more biased ;)
author=LightningLord2
There's another, much more daring way to get your game playtested - upload it here. You'd get feedback faster than anything else, but the amount of critique can be tough to deal with.
Constructive criticism I can deal with. My fear are the "you suck, go home" haters who insult instead of criticize, say nothing constructive and only want to bring people down. Is that a frequent phenomenon here in RMN?
If you have friends like mine, it'll work out. I'm not sure if I should be proud of it.
You *could* try handing out a survey of sorts to them to get feedback. This'll work in that, they won't have to tell you what they think straight in the face, and won't feel like they need to tell you that it's "good" and they "really liked it". Of course, the feedback you'll receive will be restricted thanks to this.
You *could* try handing out a survey of sorts to them to get feedback. This'll work in that, they won't have to tell you what they think straight in the face, and won't feel like they need to tell you that it's "good" and they "really liked it". Of course, the feedback you'll receive will be restricted thanks to this.
LightningLord2
230
author=Gretgorauthor=kentonaNot sure that would help much, that'd only make them even more biased ;)
love your friends and befriend your lovers
author=LightningLord2
There's another, much more daring way to get your game playtested - upload it here. You'd get feedback faster than anything else, but the amount of critique can be tough to deal with.
Constructive criticism I can deal with. My fear are the "you suck, go home" haters who insult instead of criticize, say nothing constructive and only want to bring people down. Is that a frequent phenomenon here in RMN?
It doesn't really happen too often and there's a very tight quality control on reviews. In the rare case you do find someone who's just trying to put you down, you can put them on your ignore list, which prevents the site from showing any posts made by that user.
Ooh, okay then, thanks to all of you! I'll be posting my unfinished downloads here to get comments and critique, and try to approach them with the most open mind possible.
Also, one last thing: in case I want to make a small demo available, but I don't want to open it up for reviews just yet (since it's a very early proof of concept that could potentially damage the game's overall score in spite of future adjustments and changes), is there a way to do that, or would I have to blog the link manually?
Also, one last thing: in case I want to make a small demo available, but I don't want to open it up for reviews just yet (since it's a very early proof of concept that could potentially damage the game's overall score in spite of future adjustments and changes), is there a way to do that, or would I have to blog the link manually?
You could place the demo on your locker (or in dropbox, or whatever), and post a request thread in the forums. I'm not sure which forum exactly it should go to though, either Help Me or the Job Board.
You could also have a game page up, set it as private, and invite some people to be testers for the game. The page'll only be visible to mods, developers, and testers, until you mark it as 'public'.
You could also have a game page up, set it as private, and invite some people to be testers for the game. The page'll only be visible to mods, developers, and testers, until you mark it as 'public'.
I'm certainly no expert, but, I would think that setting up a thread for a game with the intent of getting feedback for said game could be construed as "advertising your game"? So, in light of this, I kinda hafta suggest getting a gamepage, and doing a request blog for testers. Also, be on the lookout for blogs requesting testers as well! Maybe you can suggest a game-swap, and *gasp* network like that!
author=Marrend
Also, be on the lookout for blogs requesting testers as well! Maybe you can suggest a game-swap, and *gasp* network like that!
This is an excellent idea, actually.
emmych
817
ABSOLUTELY!!!! 8D
Even if you don't trust a loved one to give you an honest answer to "is this any good", you can still delegate the task of "break my game" to people who will be super biased to your work, ESPECIALLY if they suck at video games. It's also a great way to test if you can communicate your game to a layman that's never picked up a(n) <insert genre here>, effectively testing the accessibility of your game.
Different testers have different purposes, you can't have one type of tester and expect your game to be fully tested. You gotta throw it at a lot of different people before it's ready to go!
Even if you don't trust a loved one to give you an honest answer to "is this any good", you can still delegate the task of "break my game" to people who will be super biased to your work, ESPECIALLY if they suck at video games. It's also a great way to test if you can communicate your game to a layman that's never picked up a(n) <insert genre here>, effectively testing the accessibility of your game.
Different testers have different purposes, you can't have one type of tester and expect your game to be fully tested. You gotta throw it at a lot of different people before it's ready to go!
author=emmych
Different testers have different purposes, you can't have one type of tester and expect your game to be fully tested. You gotta throw it at a lot of different people before it's ready to go!
While you're definitely right, that's exactly my greatest fear. I mean, testing seems to be the hardest part to do right in a game development cycle, and I'm very afraid I'm going to forget something or simply screw it up completely. The more detailed I have to be in defining my group of testers, the greater my fear becomes that I'll fail.
Is there a way to keep solid intellectual control over how we design our testing groups, and how we study the data provided by them, so we don't get overwhelmed?
dethmetal
990
My girlfriend is, so far, my most valued playtester. I don't rely on her for story advice or anything, though. She just finds bugs for me.
I plan on relying for a third party when it comes to receiving advice concerning the story, characters, dialogue, dungeons, etc. Sometimes I feel like my girlfriend would be too afraid to criticize my work for fear of insulting me.
While I don't have an answer for my question, I'd just like to say that I have similar fears regarding playtesters. Ideally, I'd like to have two separate groups of playtesters for my game: a group I can rely on to find bugs for me, and another group I can rely on for story advice, dialogue, finding plot holes, etc. I'm not sure if I can actually manage to make that happen, and I'm not really sure how many playtesters I'll be able to find at all.
I plan on relying for a third party when it comes to receiving advice concerning the story, characters, dialogue, dungeons, etc. Sometimes I feel like my girlfriend would be too afraid to criticize my work for fear of insulting me.
author=Gretgorauthor=emmychWhile you're definitely right, that's exactly my greatest fear. I mean, testing seems to be the hardest part to do right in a game development cycle, and I'm very afraid I'm going to forget something or simply screw it up completely. The more detailed I have to be in defining my group of testers, the greater my fear becomes that I'll fail.
Different testers have different purposes, you can't have one type of tester and expect your game to be fully tested. You gotta throw it at a lot of different people before it's ready to go!
Is there a way to keep solid intellectual control over how we design our testing groups, and how we study the data provided by them, so we don't get overwhelmed?
While I don't have an answer for my question, I'd just like to say that I have similar fears regarding playtesters. Ideally, I'd like to have two separate groups of playtesters for my game: a group I can rely on to find bugs for me, and another group I can rely on for story advice, dialogue, finding plot holes, etc. I'm not sure if I can actually manage to make that happen, and I'm not really sure how many playtesters I'll be able to find at all.
LightningLord2
230
Here's another tip: Go to the Job Board forum, talk about your game and ask for playtesters there. If you find someone who you deem appropriate, send them a PM with a download link for your game's beta version.
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