SACRIFICE AS GAME MECHANIC
Posts
Pages:
1
A few games I played recently have lead me to start thinking more about a certain concept: Sacrificing something in a game in the hope of getting something better out of it. The idea of sacrifice can obviously be understood in many vastly different ways, some of which hardly have anything in common with each other. But what they have in common is that they give the player the feeling of having to give something up as a means of getting somewhere, ranging from a valuable resource to their main character's sanity. As I started listing some types of sacrifices that I could imagine or had actually seen implemented in games, it occurred to me that there are probably many more ways of using this concept for interesting game mechanics. So I'd like to hear what kinds of thoughts or ideas others have on the subject.
The most common and (theoretically) unspectacular type of sacrifice that occurs in games is probably the practice of giving up resources that exclusively exist for that purpose. Spending MP or items in order to aqcuire a certain benefit, like damage to an enemy or the restoration of another resource such as HP, is something we all know too well. Where it gets more interesting is when these resources serve another additional purpose or are vital rather than easily expendable, like in games where HP themselves also serve to fuel skills, or losing your MP can mean lower stats or even death as well.
Another type of sacrifice that usually requires some more planning and strategic thinking consists of gaining or building up some sort of advantage, and then being given the choice to give up this benefit in exchange for a different desirable effect. Examples are typically stackable buffs a character can acquire over time, but the player can also at any point decide to spend these buffs in order to unleash a powerful skill that gets stronger with every buff stacked so far. In this example, a theoretical long-term benefit is given up for a short-term advantage, but I'm sure there are many other ways to approach this as well.
The one type of sacrifice that I found to be especially rare, both because of their possibly great impact and their dramatic effect, is when actual characters are taken out of the picture in exchange for some kind of benefit. Obviously, mechanics based on this are usually associated with more evil figures, and often set in the context of demonic rituals and the like. For example in the game Spelunky, it is possible to offer the (dead or unconscious) bodies of other living beings, including friendly NPCs, to the goddess Kali by placing them on an altar. Doing this a few times will result in the player receiving an item.
Another even more morbid example can be found in the strategy game Battle for Middle Earth II. In this game, recruited units usually consist of small groups of the same type of warriors whose ranks are slowly filled up again to replace their fallen comrades as long as at least one of them remains. But the faction of Angmar can recruit a Warlock unit who is instead accompanied by a group of acolytes who serve as fuel: Every spell the warlock casts actually causes a certain number of the acolytes to die, which not only restricts the number of spells he can cast within a short time, but also gives enemies the option to quickly kill off the acolytes in order to block the warlock's spellcasting abilities.
In RPGs, mechanics like these aren't very common, although we do occasionally see the boss who sacrifices his little minions to damage the heroes or steal their remaining health. But I think there's probably still tons of ways to make use of this idea of "giving to receive." And they definitely can, but don't all have to be quite as dark as some of the ones described above. So what are your thoughts?
The most common and (theoretically) unspectacular type of sacrifice that occurs in games is probably the practice of giving up resources that exclusively exist for that purpose. Spending MP or items in order to aqcuire a certain benefit, like damage to an enemy or the restoration of another resource such as HP, is something we all know too well. Where it gets more interesting is when these resources serve another additional purpose or are vital rather than easily expendable, like in games where HP themselves also serve to fuel skills, or losing your MP can mean lower stats or even death as well.
Another type of sacrifice that usually requires some more planning and strategic thinking consists of gaining or building up some sort of advantage, and then being given the choice to give up this benefit in exchange for a different desirable effect. Examples are typically stackable buffs a character can acquire over time, but the player can also at any point decide to spend these buffs in order to unleash a powerful skill that gets stronger with every buff stacked so far. In this example, a theoretical long-term benefit is given up for a short-term advantage, but I'm sure there are many other ways to approach this as well.
The one type of sacrifice that I found to be especially rare, both because of their possibly great impact and their dramatic effect, is when actual characters are taken out of the picture in exchange for some kind of benefit. Obviously, mechanics based on this are usually associated with more evil figures, and often set in the context of demonic rituals and the like. For example in the game Spelunky, it is possible to offer the (dead or unconscious) bodies of other living beings, including friendly NPCs, to the goddess Kali by placing them on an altar. Doing this a few times will result in the player receiving an item.
Another even more morbid example can be found in the strategy game Battle for Middle Earth II. In this game, recruited units usually consist of small groups of the same type of warriors whose ranks are slowly filled up again to replace their fallen comrades as long as at least one of them remains. But the faction of Angmar can recruit a Warlock unit who is instead accompanied by a group of acolytes who serve as fuel: Every spell the warlock casts actually causes a certain number of the acolytes to die, which not only restricts the number of spells he can cast within a short time, but also gives enemies the option to quickly kill off the acolytes in order to block the warlock's spellcasting abilities.
In RPGs, mechanics like these aren't very common, although we do occasionally see the boss who sacrifices his little minions to damage the heroes or steal their remaining health. But I think there's probably still tons of ways to make use of this idea of "giving to receive." And they definitely can, but don't all have to be quite as dark as some of the ones described above. So what are your thoughts?
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Given the title, I was expecting something more along the lines of a major (possibly narrative) thing, like permanent loss of something important for permanent gain. (Is that a thing that's come up much, at least as a choice?)
It's cool thinky stuff either way, tho.
It's cool thinky stuff either way, tho.
Karsuman has played with the idea of a game called Harbinger (it's on this site, actually, albeit in a very old and wretched state) where you played a titular Harbinger exploring the ruined city of Levinheim after a genocide. As a grim reaper of sorts, you collected the most heroic souls (forty in all) and learned how they died in order to piece together the issues that let to the visions & the voices descending on Levinheim. (Fun fact: this is why Dison in V&V proper went insane; he was one of the few that escaped.)
In a move inspired by Valkyrie Profile and Knights in the Nightmare, you could permanently sacrifice your heroic souls as battle combatants in order to empower other characters. So if, say, you realized that Wednesday was a strong Assassin but that Bianca was not as good a Priestess as your favorite Viola, you could sacrifice Bianca to permanently raise the stats and potential abilities of Wednesday. Characters would react to this, as much as they were able to as spirits trapped in Horatio's scythe, which would change how loyal they were to you. (If you sacrifice Cordelia or Salazar, who were about to wed, don't expect the other to take too kindly to you.)
Anyway I feel that this can be used to great effect! You just need to design around it. The traditional jRPG model might not be the best basis. A shorter game probably works better when you have permanent sacrifices to make.
In a move inspired by Valkyrie Profile and Knights in the Nightmare, you could permanently sacrifice your heroic souls as battle combatants in order to empower other characters. So if, say, you realized that Wednesday was a strong Assassin but that Bianca was not as good a Priestess as your favorite Viola, you could sacrifice Bianca to permanently raise the stats and potential abilities of Wednesday. Characters would react to this, as much as they were able to as spirits trapped in Horatio's scythe, which would change how loyal they were to you. (If you sacrifice Cordelia or Salazar, who were about to wed, don't expect the other to take too kindly to you.)
Anyway I feel that this can be used to great effect! You just need to design around it. The traditional jRPG model might not be the best basis. A shorter game probably works better when you have permanent sacrifices to make.
In the game Granstream saga, the game has an important sacrifice the player makes at the very end: That's a pretty heavy story one.
A good example I've seen in some more recent games is party member sacrifice, or the main character loses a limb lowering their attack and defense and removing some abilities for the rest of the game.
A lose-lose scenario seems to offer more variety and can be easier to fit into a plot.
You can sacrifice the soulf of one or two girls who love you. Both of them had been killed just before this decision, and though you know who did, you're not given details how. You choose which girl to sacrifice. They wind up having their soul absorbed into this magic item you have, and after the final boss battle, their soul is destroyed for eternity.
A good example I've seen in some more recent games is party member sacrifice, or the main character loses a limb lowering their attack and defense and removing some abilities for the rest of the game.
A lose-lose scenario seems to offer more variety and can be easier to fit into a plot.
author=Sooz
Given the title, I was expecting something more along the lines of a major (possibly narrative) thing, like permanent loss of something important for permanent gain. (Is that a thing that's come up much, at least as a choice?)
You're right, I did approach this subject more from a gameplay-centered angle. But obviously, the nature of making sacrifices itself is very well suited to serve as a major plot device. I'd be interested in hearing ways this can be accomplished, if possible in manners that simultaneously affect the way the game is played as well.
Craze and Gredge, those are some pretty great examples. And especially that mechanic from Karsuman's game idea you described strongly combines the technical and narrative aspect.
It also made me think about a possible game set on a shipwreck or something similar, where the player has to face the dilemma of either trying to rescue everybody and running the risk of sinking or people starving, or sacrificing some of the passengers to make sure the others survive...
Or, more simple and possibly less morally dark, a game where your main character loses strength (e.g. Max HP) with every battle instead of getting stronger as in usual levelling up. However, that would probably make players feel frustrated very quickly, and I'm not sure whether there's a good way to make such a progression curve fun at all.
I think that's why this sort of game works better as a shorter game. There's far more room to screw up and try again, especially if the entire experience was based on finding the most beneficial/least harmful sacrifices. I designed a game with LouisCyphre and Rhyme at one point (...actually I wrote and created all of the cutscenes too. It just needs gameplay. =| ) where you were a vampire who wanted to become human. At the end of each short quest to kill a vampire Lord as a ritual component, you transferred your vampiric power to a friend, sacrificing one of your battle abilities permanently. For the final boss, you had maybe 2-3 battle actions left instead of 7-8.
The whole experience was to be about an hour tops, so if you mess up and feel stuck, it's not a big deal trying again with a different route of sacrificed abilities.
The whole experience was to be about an hour tops, so if you mess up and feel stuck, it's not a big deal trying again with a different route of sacrificed abilities.
A game idea that I am currently working on, which is still in its very early stages, deals with a whole lot of unique abilities that affect the entire game. For one, the main character is deaf and, as such, the entire game features no sound either and interacting with NPC's is vastly more difficult than if Enfys could hear. He has a unique ability, though - he's able to see emotions as colours. This ability of auditory-tactile synesthesia and chromesthesia is the major concept behind helping people. You see their feelings and want to help them.
A major NPC and one of the main characters of the game gives Enfys the chance to trade parts of this unique trait for other abilities. Say, you could sell him your ability to see sadness and instead gain useful information. Or you could sell him the emotion of fear for an ever-lasting buff of stats. Or maybe you sell an even more powerful emotion to make sure that someone stays safe. It's your call, but it might affect the story and make some quests a lot more difficult for Enfys.
A major NPC and one of the main characters of the game gives Enfys the chance to trade parts of this unique trait for other abilities. Say, you could sell him your ability to see sadness and instead gain useful information. Or you could sell him the emotion of fear for an ever-lasting buff of stats. Or maybe you sell an even more powerful emotion to make sure that someone stays safe. It's your call, but it might affect the story and make some quests a lot more difficult for Enfys.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=NeverSilent
You're right, I did approach this subject more from a gameplay-centered angle. But obviously, the nature of making sacrifices itself is very well suited to serve as a major plot device. I'd be interested in hearing ways this can be accomplished, if possible in manners that simultaneously affect the way the game is played as well.
Yeah, I mean more I'm interested in stuff that has a major impact on both narrative and gameplay, rather than smaller, purely gameplay stuff.
I'm in the planning stages of a game where the player has the choice between trying to entirely avoid enemy encounters (not always possible, and carries its own risks) or getting into battles which risk causing disastrous effects, so this discussion is pretty interesting in general to me. :D
author=Craze
I think that's why this sort of game works better as a shorter game. There's far more room to screw up and try again, especially if the entire experience was based on finding the most beneficial/least harmful sacrifices. I designed a game with LouisCyphre and Rhyme at one point (...actually I wrote and created all of the cutscenes too. It just needs gameplay. =| ) where you were a vampire who wanted to become human. At the end of each short quest to kill a vampire Lord as a ritual component, you transferred your vampiric power to a friend, sacrificing one of your battle abilities permanently. For the final boss, you had maybe 2-3 battle actions left instead of 7-8.
This sounds really boss!
And yeah, it's v. much something that needs to be planned around at the outset if it's more than a minor effect, just because a sacrifice really should feel like a loss with a big impact on everything.
Those are some really amazing concepts right there. And I very much agree with Craze's point that these kinds of high-impact mechanics probably work better in shorter games that can more easily function on such an experimental basis. And Schwer-von-Begriff's example already shows clearly that the exact definition or type of sacrifice can be taken into many vastly different directions. I'd really like to see how a game based on the premise you described would actually play as well as influence the player's perception of their own experiences and actions.
Good point. I wouldn't say this is always true, but in general, making the player really feel the meaning and consequences of their sacrifice is something that cannot be achieved without making it an integral part of both gameplay and narrative. After all, a permanent loss is something extremely noticable in real life, and trying to emulate that impression in a game (which theoretically can just be restarted at will) really requires some idea of how to affect the player's psychological state.
author=Sooz
And yeah, it's v. much something that needs to be planned around at the outset if it's more than a minor effect, just because a sacrifice really should feel like a loss with a big impact on everything.
Good point. I wouldn't say this is always true, but in general, making the player really feel the meaning and consequences of their sacrifice is something that cannot be achieved without making it an integral part of both gameplay and narrative. After all, a permanent loss is something extremely noticable in real life, and trying to emulate that impression in a game (which theoretically can just be restarted at will) really requires some idea of how to affect the player's psychological state.
One example I can think of is in Final Fantasy VI with Mog in the World of Balance. You get a choice to pick either him as a party member or the Gale Hairpin which is a fantastic relic at that stage in the game. Pick one, you sacrifice the other.
Pages:
1

















