THEMES AS A STANDARD

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If you've taken some sort of writing or literature class you're probably familiar with the idea that everything has a theme, or that at least it "should." Love, comradery, complacency, the dualism of humanity, the vastness of the universe, memory, etc.

When I asked my early writing teacher what possible themes my favorite book at the time, Wizard's First Rule, had, she immediately responded that most fantasy had the (very basic, parable-esque) theme of "Good versus Evil." Now that I'm an adult I know that the book also had another major theme: "People are stupid." This theme isn't even interpretive; the "first rule" of wizards outlined in the title is "People are stupid," and it not only pervades the "Good versus Evil" narrative but it provides the final resolution in a package that's neat and almost invisible if you aren't keen on theme-watching.

As designers/writers, do you create central themes in your game? Do you build around the theme, or let the theme dictate what you do? Or do you make what "feels" right and hope it has a theme after the fact? Or do you think that grasping for themes is contrived and that your game doesn't need to be pretentious in order to work? What are your feelings on themes in the creative process, if any?



As food for thought, FFVIII was touted on the back of the box as having the "theme of love." Although I generally agree that it has a theme of love, I found that theme to be weak in execution and cohesion throughout. In FFIX, however, no one EVER mentions it having a theme, and yet the "theme of Identity/Who Am I?" is stronger and more pervasive than any theme in any Final Fantasy.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
It depends on the scope of a work. My games usually have some kind of theme or main emotional idea, mostly just to keep the narrative somewhat cohesive and help me focus on atmosphere; I use it to inform how mechanics and aesthetics work.

My webcomic is built less around a theme and more just a combo of "this is cool" and following the character progression of and relationship between the two protags. There's bits that can be seen as themes, but they're really more incidental.

It's generally a good idea to have some sort of theme or at least connecting element, just so your whole work coheres nicely. It's also helpful in circumstances where you're not sure where to go, or if you're trying to edit things down, since it gives a good metric of what to keep and what to throw out.
Actually, iirc, FFIX was sold as a romance story first and foremost - just like FF8... though it was more a swashbuckling romance vs a white knight romance.

As for the questions:
- Depends on the game. I tend not to worry too much about creating themes and instead tell the story I want to tell and worry about where it fell in the theme (scheme) of things after the fact. Not every story needs a theme, after all - just like not every story needs a character (in the traditional sense - subject is always necessary for a story, but character, not so much. Hello Twilight series #throwinshade)
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
Without a theme in a narrative, you essentially have a rambling mess. I love how Libby uses Twilight as an example of how stories don't need themes, while at the same time, Twilight is nearly an unreadable mess (speaking as someone who's read it), to anyone but 13-year-old girls who swoon over shirtless undead. Let me give a counter example: Eragon.

With Eragon, you have bad narrative, largely directionless and rambling storytelling, circumstances that completely forego common sense, and basic lack of understanding of natural science (dragon can't land because wings are caught in wind: yeah, that's not how wings work), but it works because it manages to maintain a consistent theme throughout. No matter how ridiculous the story gets, the mind is continually drawn to the all important quest. The story never forgets it, and no matter what tangent it goes off on, it is constantly reminding you that the world needs saving.

Meanwhile, Twilight only appeals to a very specific type of audience...the kind of audience that writes Fifty Shades of Grey. When you have a thousand page book that's essentially about a girl living in a back woods community that has to choose between bestiality and necrophilia, you better believe it's gone off on a tangent. And what a tangent it goes off on! It throws Bella in the middle of this war that ordinary people know nothing about and HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY BEING TOLD! NOTHING! It's literally there only to have this big War and Peace idea of love torn by war, two people on the wrong side of the tracks, and ultimately, it does nothing to affect the outcome of the story. Every twist, every sense of danger, is just there as filler to maintain suspense until the happy ending. Good grief, the idiot girl fucking commits suicide, and she still ends up with her happily ever after...with an abusive husband and a daughter in hiding. There's even finally a huge battle where everyone dies: PSYCHE! Newsflash: it's not a twist if it doesn't change the story!

Twilight suffers from a lack of theme. It's basically a romance with a fantasy story tacked on as an afterthought. It has little focus. How it has such I following, I can't even guess. I had to force myself through the books. I mean, they weren't eyebleeding. They were just so fucking dull and boring.

Another example, aside from Eragon, where theme keeps an unwieldy story interesting is the Harry Potter series. We all love them, or most of us anyway, but just stop and take a look at poorly conceived much of it is. Voldemort spends most of his time talking about killing Harry instead of actually doing it. We have an inept school staff that can't keep the school safe and don't really teach anything anyway, and even if they did, there are no maths, no history, basic grammar education. We have a school where adults will emerge with a 10-year-old's comprehension of history. The premise is absurd, not to mention the fact Rowling is an human exposition fairy. I mean, what enemies, near the end of a battle have a pages long conversation before the final fight? Again, we forgive these failings because the set dressing is accompanied by consistent, focused themes that we can all relate to.

I can think of very few examples of successful stories that lacked themes, other than Twilight. Jupiter Ascending was a spectacular wreck. After Earth will be famous for being a pathetic excuse for a film. Terminator: Genesys. These are all films that strayed from their themes and failed spectacularly because of it. All any of them had to do was maintain their focus! Even Twilight could have been good if Meyer had simply made the vampire war lastingly relevant to Bella's love life.

So, yeah, I'm going to have say that theme is absolutely mandatory in a fictional narrative.
Deltree
doesn't live here anymore
4556
I always start out with a theme in mind. It's a narrative glue (whether persuasive or purely for entertainment purposes) that elevates a story above the "default" setting of "good versus evil" (or, more generally, "us versus them.")

Also, theme can be applied in a couple of different ways - either how a story is told (romance, mystery, war), or what the story is "about" (hardship, discrimination, self-actualization). And, of course, themes can manage both at once, and multiple themes can run their course over a single story. It's almost frustrating being able to narrow a story down to a single word or two, but I guess that's what makes them appealing/fulfilling to humans in the first place.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Romance by itself isn't a theme. Not a useful one anyway. It's way too general. I would say one of the themes of FF8 is the memory of lost romance. Another theme is the inability to go back to the way things were. Both of these are, of course, related to multiple plot points that are explored in different ways as the game goes on - the game includes time travel where the heroes can't actually change anything, memory loss among people who shared a childhood together, a second generation of lovers who attempt to pick up where their parents failed.

We fill our games with enemies, monsters, demons. In a well formed game, every enemy is an embodiment of the game's thematic conflict - physical form given to dark emotions, or to temptations, or to obstacles standing in the way of burning desires. Letting the player battle them in our games is a way of showing that they can be overcome - of providing that experience firsthand to the audience.

The way the player battles should reflect on the theme too. Are these enemies defeated quickly, dispatched in rapid succession, showing that momentum will carry you forward through the ordeal? Or does the player need to move slowly and cautiously to avoid being overwhelmed? Are the enemies - the representations of what we're fighting against - blocking the player's path, or can they be avoided, or does the player need to stop moving forward and seek them out? What happens when the player loses? Can they pick themselves right back up, or do they need to make a bargain, or do they lose a great deal of progress towards their goal?

In Final Fantasy 8, the heroes fight against time compression, trying to move forward in their own lives despite everything else trying to pull them away. The enemies created by the sorceresses serve as representations of the concept of inability to escape the past. The human Galbadian enemies serve as representatives of a world trying to hold lovers apart. The powers utilized by the heroes literally erase the heroes' memories as the cost of moving forward. Enemies are usually dispatched quickly but return over and over, endlessly. If the player wishes, they can linger on a memory, trying to draw power from it, but only to a point; eventually they have to leave it behind.

These kinds of themes are actually common in games if you know how to look for them. It's more difficult and rare in a video game to create a tragic theme, to tell a story of a broken world that isn't fixable. Due to the nature of the medium, the player in a video game usually has to be able to win. But I don't always like those happy endings. I don't think what they represent is the only theme worth exploring. I want to explore that darkness, not simply stomp it down. The theme I'm interested in is one of a world filled with darkness, and our attempt not to defeat it but to accept that we're inexorably part of it. I think that's why I'm drawn to games where the player becomes the demon. Games like Warcraft 3, Undertale, Shin Megami Tensei, Twilight Princess. One of my own games Vindication explores this theme in a lame, juvenile way. I'd like to do a better job in the future.

Is this the most pretentious fucking post I've made so far in 2016? Yes, but I hope it doesn't stay that way for long. I live to outdo myself.
...I was talking about characters when mentioning Twilight, piano. You know, 'cause they're cardboard cutouts where you fill in yourself and all? Yeah. XD

You can have a story without an over-arching theme, but honestly the first thing my creative writing teacher said about themes is that it doesn't matter what kind of theme you try to give your game, the reader is probably not going to pick it up unless it's the most basic and broad theme in the world - ie: romance

You could say that a book like, oh, Harry Potter is about growing into your abilities, or finding your own family, or class division, or racism, or coping with loss, or a million other themes. And you'd be right, but that is probably not the over-all theme that JK was aiming for when she wrote the series.

Readers are going to pick their own pieces from what you write so just write the story you want to and ignore the whole theme thing. It doesn't matter unless you're super invested in trying to put across a certain theme in particular.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Sorry breh that's not really pretentious, just good sense.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
Liberty
...I was talking about characters when mentioning Twilight, piano.


Well, yeah. Individual characters don't have to have themes.

You know, 'cause they're cardboard cutouts where you fill in yourself and all? Yeah. XD


Well that depends. In most video games, or action movies, yeah, but where you're trying to a tell a story that doesn't depend on the action, your cardboard cutouts need to have a little substance backing them up.

You can have a story without an over-arching theme, but honestly the first thing my creative writing teacher said about themes is that it doesn't matter what kind of theme you try to give your game, the reader is probably not going to pick it up unless it's the most basic and broad theme in the world - ie: romance


Oh, maybe, maybe not. Theme's aren't supposed to be there for the reader to pick up on. If a theme's well done, the reader isn't supposed to notice it. The theme is like a track. It keeps your story focused on its direction. Perhaps it's not the theme that's important; it's the focus. Every story needs to be able to get from the beginning to the end without running off on a rambling tangent. If you want side stories, either add them in when you're done, or maintain the theme to make sure those side stories don't derail your narrative. Look, the theme isn't there for the reader, it's there for the writer. I've wrecked too many of my stories by losing focus. Theme is very useful in acting as a point of focus.

You could say that a book like, oh, Harry Potter is about growing into your abilities, or finding your own family, or class division, or racism, or coping with loss, or a million other themes. And you'd be right, but that is probably not the over-all theme that JK was aiming for when she wrote the series.


It's worth noting that all of the possible themes that run throughout the series is what makes those books so relateable. (The overarching theme that Rowling set the tone of the books on was "Death and Coping with Death", by the way.)

Readers are going to pick their own pieces from what you write so just write the story you want to and ignore the whole theme thing. It doesn't matter unless you're super invested in trying to put across a certain theme in particular.


They certainly are, but if the writer doesn't care, why should the reader?
Well, theme is definitely useful to me for keeping focus. If I can keep focussed on whatever it is in a particular story, I can identify excess characters or plotlines. Maintaining a manageable scope for a game is a priority so using a theme to build everything around certainly helps that.

LockeZ
These kinds of themes are actually common in games if you know how to look for them. It's more difficult and rare in a video game to create a tragic theme, to tell a story of a broken world that isn't fixable. Due to the nature of the medium, the player in a video game usually has to be able to win. But I don't always like those happy endings. I don't think what they represent is the only theme worth exploring. I want to explore that darkness, not simply stomp it down. The theme I'm interested in is one of a world filled with darkness, and our attempt not to defeat it but to accept that we're inexorably part of it. I think that's why I'm drawn to games where the player becomes the demon. Games like Warcraft 3, Undertale, Shin Megami Tensei, Twilight Princess.


I like this idea a whole lot, by the by.


piano, you didn't read my first post properly. I wasn't saying that characters needed themes. I said:
Not every story needs a theme, after all - just like not every story needs a character (in the traditional sense - subject is always necessary for a story, but character, not so much. Hello Twilight series #throwinshade)
that was the whole correlation between themes and characters I was talking about >.<;


RE: the 'theme' of Harry Potter - as a long time reader, that is not the theme that I would have said encompassed the series. I lean more towards dual themes - 'Found Family' and 'Good vs Evil'. So, yeah, readers don't necessarily pick up on the themes you want them to.

Themes are supposed to be at least recognisable and visible to the reader if you're using them in a deliberate manner (that is, putting a lot of thought and effort into interlacing them through the story). Which is why I was saying stories don't need an over-arching theme - perhaps a better way to put it is 'a deliberate theme', as in the writer deliberating over the use of the theme in question.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
Liberty
piano, you didn't read my first post properly.

No, I read it fine.

I wasn't saying that characters needed themes.


I wasn't saying you were. I was agreeing with you on that point.

RE: the 'theme' of Harry Potter - as a long time reader, that is not the theme that I would have said encompassed the series. I lean more towards dual themes - 'Found Family' and 'Good vs Evil'. So, yeah, readers don't necessarily pick up on the themes you want them to.


Exactly. There's interpretation vs. what the author intended. Jo Rowling's overarching theme was Death according to her own public statements, but you and I never interpreted it that way. It underlines what I mean when I say that the theme isn't necessarily intended for the reader to notice, though it can be.

Themes are supposed to be at least recognisable and visible to the reader if you're using them in a deliberate manner (that is, putting a lot of thought and effort into interlacing them through the story). Which is why I was saying stories don't need an over-arching theme - perhaps a better way to put it is 'a deliberate theme', as in the writer deliberating over the use of the theme in question.


Again, I agree. Themes can be subtle, something the reader never notices, but learns from it anyway, or it can be in-your-face-Manichean-duality-destroy-evil-or-the-universe-ends good versus evil like Star Wars.

I still say that if you're writing without giving consideration to what you're character's intentions are (that would be a theme of some kind), you're playing a hazardous game. I've had narratives go off into wrecks because I didn't give enough due consideration to the theme. They become an un-writable mess.

A good practice is to write your ending first. When you know where the story is going, you have a clearer idea of how to get there.

About LockeZ's post. I basically agree with every point and really have nothing to add.
By nature, we tend to think associatively. That means, we go from one point to another point, and from this point to another. Whatever we associate with it, find is important for the point or not, something that's similar or an opposite. This is a great way to net out a point, but it will not give you a firm construct, nor a firm line of thought. It IS random and very personal.
The ideal creation is something complete in itself, logical, rounded and with a clear focus. If you write without thinking about what you're doing it is very very very likely you will not do what you actually set out to do unless you already have it laid out in completion.

All asseys etc start with a guiding hypothesis to lay your work out for you. Poems describe a certain situation and feeling, for all kinds of writing we already have pre-established guidlines to set a focus.

That being the case, you can consciously avoid using themes or linking elements - but you will make sure to give it a different sense of progression and interest than the usual. Which means that in fact, if you want to skip themes completely, you need to PLAN to do so as well.
I am sure some people fare well with not setting a focus or.. "just doing their thing" - but it is always a gamble unless you know with certainty that your natural flow of thought is all in order. Which .. let's be honest .. is unlikely.

I am not much of a writer, or an artist for that matter. But everything I do set a theme or an idea for turns out far better than random thoughtless doodles or scraps. And unconsciously or consciously I do try to work out an underlying idea.

A good friend wants to start his own game project soon, and so I was just doodling some enemies as nightmare .. mostly sexuality-related, lot of fun and they came out great despite me just sketching a bunch of weird things fairly quickly.

Seeing games and other forms of media .. I always, always appreciate themes. They make the work more interesting as there are multiple trains of thought going on, multiple ways to interpret what is going on as well as different angles to the story beyond the "person x does y".
You may not identify the exact themes used, but you sure can see when it is a random thought collection not forming a clear whole.
You need a guiding idea somewhere in some form. Which for stories ultimately often makes for a "theme". "I wanna have the protagonist stumble into every trap and every misfortune along his standard quest possible" .. boom. done.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
I always start with the theme in mind when I sit down to write something. If you know what story you want to tell, that's great, but I find that stories that just tell stories tend to get sidetracked a lot and eventually you lose focus of the central idea of the narrative. To counter this, I usually ask myself, "What's the point of this story? Why am I spending the time to write this? Why would others spend the time to read/play this?" If something doesn't jive with the central theme of the story, I usually scrap it.

To me, a theme is a foundation of a story, not the be all/end all. There can be many sub themes and concepts in a work, but if they don't contribute something to the overall narrative as a whole, then it's less a story and more a collection of events that happen. Which is fine if that's what you want, but I feel those kinds of stories tend to lack focus, and I personally can't get invested in them as much.

I'm gonna talk about ICO, my favorite game of all time here, which I think keeps to a central theme perfectly. I'm no authority on the game or the subject matter, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think the theme of the game isn't love so much as it is togetherness. You could absolutely draw the love theme from that, but I felt the game was less about the intimacy between the two and more about them being together. That's why the entire game was centered around the two of them cooperating, not talking. You communicated by holding Yorda's hand, and the feel of keeping that hand held constantly invokes that feeling of togetherness, as the act of keeping that trigger held was a constant reminder of the fact that you were not alone. This is further reinforced by the feeling you have when you are NOT together, when you don't have that trigger held down.

So, to bring it back on topic, I feel like ICO was developed with the central theme of togetherness, and the love theme being quite secondary and open to interpretation. Not once was it ever openly expressed to players. "HEY! DON'T YOU FEEL A CONNECTION TO YORDA?! HUH? DO YOU?1"

Anyway, I think that all stories need to have some sort of central theme to them, whether they be a simple one word theme or a complex mix of them. It's all in the nuance, though, as simply throwing themes into a creative work can be just as jarring and unfocused as a project with no idea or direction.
author=pianotm
Liberty
piano, you didn't read my first post properly.
RE: the 'theme' of Harry Potter - as a long time reader, that is not the theme that I would have said encompassed the series. I lean more towards dual themes - 'Found Family' and 'Good vs Evil'. So, yeah, readers don't necessarily pick up on the themes you want them to.


Exactly. There's interpretation vs. what the author intended. Jo Rowling's overarching theme was Death according to her own public statements, but you and I never interpreted it that way. It underlines what I mean when I say that the theme isn't necessarily intended for the reader to notice, though it can be.


This borders Authorial Intent, which is not just another can of worms, but a can of, like, Dragonairs! XD

I think themes, like any meaning, can be interpretive. For example, even though To the Moon wasn't necessarily consciously constructed with the theme of Communication, I'd argue that Communication IS the main theme of the game, right or wrong, intended or intuitively crafted. Same with Identity in FFIX. (Side note: I loved all the input on the theme of FFVIII; that could be a topic in itself!)

But whether or not a the theme was created purposefully or subconsciously is an interesting idea. I have no doubts that some people can craft cohesive themes without ever thinking about it in technical or literal terms. And I often wonder how many people avoid it like the plague, and if those finished projects end up having a theme anyhow.

Personally I tend to think of Main Theme, then genre (as loosely as possible). As I create, I try to let other themes come in organically, but if they compromise the original Main Theme then they have to go. Without that Main Theme my workload doubles because I have to go back through every nuance of the project and realign details to the New Theme.
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