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SCIENTISTS HAVE THE ABILITY TO 'REPLACE' MEMORIES.
Posts
Dyhalto
7536
Dyhalto
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Close@Sooz
There's no reason we can't extrapolate, or just plain daydream. Art and science are two sides of the same coin. You discover something, then you imagine the possibilities of where it can take you, which then provides inspiration to discover more.
If all you want to say is "Oh, well, all the article says is ____ and that's it", then this isn't the thread for you.
There's no reason we can't extrapolate, or just plain daydream. Art and science are two sides of the same coin. You discover something, then you imagine the possibilities of where it can take you, which then provides inspiration to discover more.
If all you want to say is "Oh, well, all the article says is ____ and that's it", then this isn't the thread for you.
KatanaHiroshi
And yep, instead of sleeping in class, I'd rather have some important info downloaded to my brain. TYVM.
I only ever fell asleep in accounting class, for some reason. It was the teacher. His voice was like morphine.
The brain is some ancient parasite that latched on to a random nearby ape, taking full control of it, and evolving to the extent of developing its own civilization with rapidly advancing technologies.
But that's unrelated (and, not to mention, scifi stuff) :)
I don't see how this would have much benefit for the public. Though it is good science, I don't see being able to alter another's memory be used for anything other than harm.
Also, our definition of our 'self' is based on a certain (probably unique) pattern of electrical signals. In that sense, we are not human. We are just a collection of zips and zaps contained in a ball of goo, and controlling a bag of meat and bones. That's what I think, at least. So (perfectly) recreating said pattern will be equivalent to creating a new 'you'. It doesn't matter where that will be placed. It doesn't matter how many 'you's exist. All of you are 'you', if that made any sense.
But that's unrelated (and, not to mention, scifi stuff) :)
I don't see how this would have much benefit for the public. Though it is good science, I don't see being able to alter another's memory be used for anything other than harm.
Also, our definition of our 'self' is based on a certain (probably unique) pattern of electrical signals. In that sense, we are not human. We are just a collection of zips and zaps contained in a ball of goo, and controlling a bag of meat and bones. That's what I think, at least. So (perfectly) recreating said pattern will be equivalent to creating a new 'you'. It doesn't matter where that will be placed. It doesn't matter how many 'you's exist. All of you are 'you', if that made any sense.
@pianotm- I guess I was thinking more along the lines of wartime PTSD. I had a close friend that will never be the same after coming back. He is now in and out of mental institutions, hospitals and rehab after drug abuse because all he wanted to do was forget.
I don't think it's something that should be for everyone but don't you think it would be good for someone like him? I agree about losing the good with the bad but what about for something there isn't any good in remembering?
I don't think it's something that should be for everyone but don't you think it would be good for someone like him? I agree about losing the good with the bad but what about for something there isn't any good in remembering?
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=pianotm
On other hand, treating mental illnesses? No way.
Dude, read the damn article. It overspeculates, but the ENTIRE POINT is that there's been a breakthrough in treating mental illnesses like phobias and PTSD by directly treating the memory circuits. Like that is exactly the thing that is being done. It is a thing that is happening, RIGHT NOW, and without somehow magically also deleting any memories.
author=KatanaHiroshiauthor=SoozWhat do you expect? Hell, my batchmate's SIP's just a water wheel with a cellphone charger.
Protip: Science reporting exggerates or just plain misrepresents actual science 99% of the time.
I expect accurate reporting from newspeople. The main problem is that most science reporters don't know how to science. (The other problem is intentional fuckery to get eyeballs.)
author=Dyhalto
@Sooz
There's no reason we can't extrapolate, or just plain daydream. Art and science are two sides of the same coin. You discover something, then you imagine the possibilities of where it can take you, which then provides inspiration to discover more.
If all you want to say is "Oh, well, all the article says is ____ and that's it", then this isn't the thread for you.
Yo, imagine all you want, but literally nothing about the OP says this is anything other than "Look at this article about a thing," so I think maybe I have as much right to be a wet blanket as y'all have to get all starry-eyed.
author=karins_soulkeeper
The brain is some ancient parasite that latched on to a random nearby ape, taking full control of it, and evolving to the extent of developing its own civilization with rapidly advancing technologies.
But that's unrelated (and, not to mention, scifi stuff) :)
I don't see how this would have much benefit for the public. Though it is good science, I don't see being able to alter another's memory be used for anything other than harm.
Also, our definition of our 'self' is based on a certain (probably unique) pattern of electrical signals. In that sense, we are not human. We are just a collection of zips and zaps contained in a ball of goo, and controlling a bag of meat and bones. That's what I think, at least. So (perfectly) recreating said pattern will be equivalent to creating a new 'you'. It doesn't matter where that will be placed. It doesn't matter how many 'you's exist. All of you are 'you', if that made any sense.
Okay... that sounds like a creepy theory, to be exact.
author=Sooz
I expect accurate reporting from newspeople. The main problem is that most science reporters don't know how to science. (The other problem is intentional fuckery to get eyeballs.)
News reporters tend to do that... some, of course... in order to get more views into it. Funny, that they follow a creed that states that "Walang kinikilingan" (Taking no sides).
Katana> 'Walang Kinikilingan' means 'Taking no sides'...
(which is still false, considering how they censor stuff harmful to them, or their oh so generous benefactors)
(which is still false, considering how they censor stuff harmful to them, or their oh so generous benefactors)
author=karins_soulkeeper
Katana> 'Walang Kinikilingan' means 'Taking no sides'...
Got it. I tend to forget my mother language. XP
author=karins_soulkeeper
(which is still false, considering how they censor stuff harmful to them, or their oh so generous benefactors)
And we can all relate that to ever single news ever. (except some, of course.)
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
What would you rather have done: take medication to help you cope with the malfunctions of your brain or have a science developed that would simply cause that malfunction to no longer really affect you in any way?
If what I'm getting from this thread is true, what they're hoping to do is essentially wipe away the 'weight' of the memory/disorder instead of the memory/disorder itself. To some this may sound nice, but think about it another way; what sort of repercussions would develop should one be successfully cured of the negativity that comes with traumatic events? Could this open the patient to sociopathic tendencies? If what you're repressing is something of a violent nature, surely so.
Let's not forget that methods such as electroshock therapy was/is considered a viable cure for mental illnesses. From my own family, my maternal grandmother had such a procedure performed on her and - by my mother's own account - it only made her schizophrenic delusions worse.
If what I'm getting from this thread is true, what they're hoping to do is essentially wipe away the 'weight' of the memory/disorder instead of the memory/disorder itself. To some this may sound nice, but think about it another way; what sort of repercussions would develop should one be successfully cured of the negativity that comes with traumatic events? Could this open the patient to sociopathic tendencies? If what you're repressing is something of a violent nature, surely so.
Let's not forget that methods such as electroshock therapy was/is considered a viable cure for mental illnesses. From my own family, my maternal grandmother had such a procedure performed on her and - by my mother's own account - it only made her schizophrenic delusions worse.
author=Corfaisus
What would you rather have done: take medication to help you cope with the malfunctions of your brain or have a science developed that would simply cause that malfunction to no longer really affect you in any way?
If what I'm getting from this thread is true, what they're hoping to do is essentially wipe away the 'weight' of the memory/disorder instead of the memory/disorder itself. To some this may sound nice, but think about it another way; what sort of repercussions would develop should one be successfully cured of the negativity that comes with traumatic events? Could this open the patient to sociopathic tendencies? If what you're repressing is something of a violent nature, surely so.
Let's not forget that methods such as electroshock therapy was/is considered a viable cure for mental illnesses. From my own family, my maternal grandmother had such a procedure done on her and - by my mother's own account - it only made her schizophrenic delusions worse.
And that's something we don't know yet. From what I know, they only 'replace', not 'wipe away' the bad memories, not destroying that malfunction. (because we all know that erasing things is a bad idea, especially in the RPG Maker XP/VX/Ace/Just any engine.)
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=KatanaHiroshi
From what I know, they only 'replace', not 'wipe away' the bad memories, not destroying that malfunction.
But doesn't this just cause more problems than it solves? If science has made it so that I recall someone who was nasty to me instead being friendly to me, if I approached that person later, they would know what really happened and I'd be left confused. I'd then try to logically come up with some sort of explanation for why this otherwise friendly person doesn't want anything to do with me anymore.
Was it something I did? I can't remember. It must've been because we got along so well before.
Cue the spiral into self-doubt.
Yeaaah I'm with Sooz .. that's not how the brain works. The article is all about the application for phobias, and then there is one vid linked at the bottom with the false memory which is in no way what people make it out to be here, or like a pill or mechanisation to be applied (a lot of psychological impact, and with the shit that went on during war, DDR and whatnot under harsh interrogations .. I can see that.. under the UdSSR there was a whoooole mechanisation about people getting to describe and admit to crimes they never committed).. then there is stuff like the gaslighting effect .. but that's different topics.
The brain is always shifting. And the change made was not that the traumatic event was erased, but that the negative feeling associated with it was - and that's the whole goal of overcoming a phobia or other traumatic events. You're over it when you can think about the bad stuff, and feel alright about it.
That's what we do naturally over time with effort or affirmations or meditation or whatever. It works. You yourself can't change what happened in the past, but you can change what it means to you (thanks to the emotions and messages tied in to it)
As someone who is actually challenging an unconscious stress-cycle involving practically everything of the outside world right now and had a day of feeling fine without a breathing mask - it's an awesome feeling! And having help for people in such a situation is worth a whole lot, life-changing even.
The "traditional" way of dealing with it is to put yourself into these situations, and then wait out and calm the response of sweating, feeling uncomfortable, scared, horrible until you feel nice and relaxed and good - and thus over time attaching the good feeling to the thing in question. You teach the part of your brain responsible for the fight n flight response that this is safe and good. You do this with emotions. And with time you will learn that spiders will not magically kill, or be out to kill you, if you see them and feel alright in their presence. (if the thing is spiders.. can be anything)
Removing or replacing memories is a whole different process. And a different field of studies not mentioned, but only hinted at with the video. The psychological possibility of implanting false beliefs or memories is already possible, and has long since done, although not always intentional, but almost always destructive.
Hell, most of us carry conflicting beliefs about who we are, what we are worth, or what we can do due to the pressure or badly taken up messages growing up that are simply false. Changing such beliefs can change what we are capable of doing or who we end up being.
Everything Corfaisus said ties in to that and stuff like the Gaslight Effect.. but not to the described method of dealing with trauma .. the bigger point the article made was not about replacing or erasing memories, but the emotional reponses.
If someone treats you like an ass and later if you think about it and can laugh to yourself "well, that was an ass, hah!" you will still know he's not a trustworthy guy. He won't haunt your dreams or memories or make you think you can't trust another person. And that's the important part of dealing with and overcoming trauma.
.. ugh, these article writers. I avoided this thread long enough since I expected something like this. The two topics are so vastly different even if they both relate to memory!
The brain is always shifting. And the change made was not that the traumatic event was erased, but that the negative feeling associated with it was - and that's the whole goal of overcoming a phobia or other traumatic events. You're over it when you can think about the bad stuff, and feel alright about it.
That's what we do naturally over time with effort or affirmations or meditation or whatever. It works. You yourself can't change what happened in the past, but you can change what it means to you (thanks to the emotions and messages tied in to it)
Numerous studies have now shown that by blocking a chemical called norepinephrine - which is involved in the fight or flight response and is responsible for triggering symptoms such as sweaty palms and a racing heart - researchers can 'dampen' traumatic memories, and stop them being associated with negative emotions.
As someone who is actually challenging an unconscious stress-cycle involving practically everything of the outside world right now and had a day of feeling fine without a breathing mask - it's an awesome feeling! And having help for people in such a situation is worth a whole lot, life-changing even.
The "traditional" way of dealing with it is to put yourself into these situations, and then wait out and calm the response of sweating, feeling uncomfortable, scared, horrible until you feel nice and relaxed and good - and thus over time attaching the good feeling to the thing in question. You teach the part of your brain responsible for the fight n flight response that this is safe and good. You do this with emotions. And with time you will learn that spiders will not magically kill, or be out to kill you, if you see them and feel alright in their presence. (if the thing is spiders.. can be anything)
Removing or replacing memories is a whole different process. And a different field of studies not mentioned, but only hinted at with the video. The psychological possibility of implanting false beliefs or memories is already possible, and has long since done, although not always intentional, but almost always destructive.
Hell, most of us carry conflicting beliefs about who we are, what we are worth, or what we can do due to the pressure or badly taken up messages growing up that are simply false. Changing such beliefs can change what we are capable of doing or who we end up being.
Everything Corfaisus said ties in to that and stuff like the Gaslight Effect.. but not to the described method of dealing with trauma .. the bigger point the article made was not about replacing or erasing memories, but the emotional reponses.
If someone treats you like an ass and later if you think about it and can laugh to yourself "well, that was an ass, hah!" you will still know he's not a trustworthy guy. He won't haunt your dreams or memories or make you think you can't trust another person. And that's the important part of dealing with and overcoming trauma.
.. ugh, these article writers. I avoided this thread long enough since I expected something like this. The two topics are so vastly different even if they both relate to memory!
SnowOwl
5188
The question is, can it make me want to work without also making me want to kill myself?
@Kylaila: You're right about that. Of course, we have our own capabilities to overcome trauma. The real thing is that the 'bad memory replacer' is just for people who can't do it on their own... naturally. I'm positive that it's the reason it exists or it's just that people can't overcome what happened in Feb 14 or Feb 15 (Singles Awareness Day, to be exact.)
And now to wait for StarCraft to happen all over again (and To The Moon)
That's a different thing, bro. It's your attitude you're messing with.. but we could say that memory has a connection with it, so...
And now to wait for StarCraft to happen all over again (and To The Moon)
author=SnowOwl
The question is, can it make me want to work without also making me want to kill myself?
That's a different thing, bro. It's your attitude you're messing with.. but we could say that memory has a connection with it, so...
author=KatanaHiroshi
@Kylaila: You're right about that. Of course, we have our own capabilities to overcome trauma. The real thing is that the 'bad memory replacer' is just for people who can't do it on their own... naturally. I'm positive that it's the reason it exists or it's just that people can't overcome what happened in Feb 14 or Feb 15 (Singles Awareness Day, to be exact.)
...
My general point was that no "series of events happened" sort of memory is being replaced or erased, as was stated.
But anyway, yes, we have our own capabilities. But I see no reason why only those who "cannot" do so should use such treatment.
For people it can take years to overcome this even with dedication, so helping them along is good in my book. There are many phobias heavily impacting your life (the spider one is really fairly minor in most instances).. so to help them return to a free life earlier is a good thing. It is true that it will help people who may have found themselves unable to otherwise, too.
It's like saying only those who are unable to treat their depression should use medication, which is rude to everyone who uses them additionally, for the support they offer, and the idea of labeling people "unable" to cope one way or another. Some need more time, and that's okay.
@Snowowl: Well, it wasn't experimented with yet. If work itself is a huge cause for stress and thus gives you that feeling .. it likely may. If we are talking about depression in general, it may have many different roots to look at.
Still, it's not the only thing you need to do for yourself to get to the happy point.
author=Kylaila
My point was that no "series of event happened" sort of memory is being replaced or erased, as was stated.
Actually, that I wanted to point it out but my studies are stopping me. I have to focus studying because tomorrow's the second day of our exams. Still, it's a good thing to point it out because it's how people deal with problems in the first place naturally rather than let artificial things let you 'erase' everything you know.
author=Kylaila
It's like saying only those who are unable to treat their depression should use medication, which is rude to everyone who uses them additionally, for the support they offer, and the idea of labeling people "unable" to cope one way or another. Some need more time, and that's okay.
They need time or it's just they need the medication (again, the BMR) to make it faster to cope with. And also, let's not forget that some medications are best if prescribed and confirmed. Seriously, I will not use the BMR just to forget things like heartbreaks. These experiences makes us stronger and makes the BMR render useless unless reasons meet.
Aye. And that's what makes it very feasible.
You still know what went on, and whether you learn the right lessons for future events depends on you still, and that's how life works.
You still know what went on, and whether you learn the right lessons for future events depends on you still, and that's how life works.
@Kylaila: And instead of denying it, you accept it. Your weakness becomes your strength. No longer are you weak... and now that you are strong from what happened before. I actually want to add the whole "RPG Experience Level" to this kinda thing.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Corfaisus
Let's not forget that methods such as electroshock therapy was/is considered a viable cure for mental illnesses. From my own family, my maternal grandmother had such a procedure performed on her and - by my mother's own account - it only made her schizophrenic delusions worse.
ECT isn't effective against schizophrenia,* but can be effective against several other illnesses.
ETA:
*As in, it's not an effective antipsychotic, though it is used to treat a symptom associated with schizophrenia.
