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A FEW QUESTIONS ON PROPER GAME MAKING
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Fruebis
34
Fruebis
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CloseHello everyone! I'm making a game, as you probably guessed, and I would like to know your opinions on this.
Because of the way that the game is played, my original plan was to have one world map you could sail a ship around to get from area to area, and then one large map for each place that you could explore, rather than having a bunch of little maps. Of course, I thought this was a great and creative idea at first, but as I continue to think about it, I'm growing a tad worried that doing this will cause the exploration to get confusing, as you don't know if your in the west side of the forest, or the south side, since forest generally looks the same. If you could let me know which you think would be better, that would be helpful.
Because of the way that the game is played, my original plan was to have one world map you could sail a ship around to get from area to area, and then one large map for each place that you could explore, rather than having a bunch of little maps. Of course, I thought this was a great and creative idea at first, but as I continue to think about it, I'm growing a tad worried that doing this will cause the exploration to get confusing, as you don't know if your in the west side of the forest, or the south side, since forest generally looks the same. If you could let me know which you think would be better, that would be helpful.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Proper game making involves sticking your pinky out while operating the mouse.
In all seriousness, if you can't figure out how to use object placement and layout to help the player distinguish where they are in an area, you probably shouldn't be mapping yet.
I can think of three games off the top of my head with fairly sprawling maps: Zelda: a Link to the Past, Yume Nikki, and OFF. Two of the three have extremely simple tilesets, and one is made to be kind of confusing to explore. However, all three make it fairly easy to figure out where in a (non-maze) area you are through their use of mapping. Try checking them out and studying the way the makers arranged all the elements available in each map to help differentiate things.
In all seriousness, if you can't figure out how to use object placement and layout to help the player distinguish where they are in an area, you probably shouldn't be mapping yet.
I can think of three games off the top of my head with fairly sprawling maps: Zelda: a Link to the Past, Yume Nikki, and OFF. Two of the three have extremely simple tilesets, and one is made to be kind of confusing to explore. However, all three make it fairly easy to figure out where in a (non-maze) area you are through their use of mapping. Try checking them out and studying the way the makers arranged all the elements available in each map to help differentiate things.
Yeah, you need to design your maps in a way that conveys direction clearly for the player, otherwise you heavily risk frustrating them.
An alternative solution, however, is to include something akin to a minimap or navigation system that points your player towards a certain direction, depending on how you want your game to be set up. That'll allow you to get away with similar-looking environments without getting the player lost.
An alternative solution, however, is to include something akin to a minimap or navigation system that points your player towards a certain direction, depending on how you want your game to be set up. That'll allow you to get away with similar-looking environments without getting the player lost.
There are ways to let people know where they are - by using landmarks. If an NPC mentions that there's an abandonned tower in the west of the forest, when you run into that abandonned tower, you'll know you're in the western area. It also helps you navigate - knowing that just as you enter the forest you can see a fairy fountain helps you place that spot in your memory a bit better.
Be like Hansel and Gretel - leave bread crumbs that your player can follow back. Uh, figuratively speaking, of course. So leave a trail of things that stand out a bit to them, so when they backtrack they can say "Oh, I remember those three stumps that make a triangle. If I got south from here there should be a ring of mushrooms and just beyond that is the exit. I know where I am!" or "Oh, hey, that's the campsite we walked through whilst coming in from the eastern section. Did we loop around to the east by accident? Crud."
Identifiers. That's where it's at~
Be like Hansel and Gretel - leave bread crumbs that your player can follow back. Uh, figuratively speaking, of course. So leave a trail of things that stand out a bit to them, so when they backtrack they can say "Oh, I remember those three stumps that make a triangle. If I got south from here there should be a ring of mushrooms and just beyond that is the exit. I know where I am!" or "Oh, hey, that's the campsite we walked through whilst coming in from the eastern section. Did we loop around to the east by accident? Crud."
Identifiers. That's where it's at~
Small maps are almost always better. They're easier to navigate and they'll have less empty space for you as the creator to fill. The best maps make excellent use of negative space. As you get better at mapping you'll learn how to do this.
Our own Nessiah has an excellent series of articles on map design. http://rpgmaker.net/users/Archeia_Nessiah/articles/
Our own Nessiah has an excellent series of articles on map design. http://rpgmaker.net/users/Archeia_Nessiah/articles/
Fruebis
34
author=SoozAlrighty, I can get that.
In all seriousness, if you can't figure out how to use object placement and layout to help the player distinguish where they are in an area, you probably shouldn't be mapping yet.
author=SoozI'll look into those, and learn what I can.
can think of three games off the top of my head with fairly sprawling maps: Zelda: a Link to the Past, Yume Nikki, and OFF.
author=Ratty524I hadn't considered that. Not sure what I think about that idea, but thank you for suggesting it.
An alternative solution, however, is to include something akin to a minimap or navigation system that points your player towards a certain direction
author=LibertyAhahaha, nice analogy. Not sure how well I'll manage that, but I'll certainly do my best.
Be like Hansel and Gretel - leave bread crumbs that your player can follow back. Uh, figuratively speaking, of course.
author=LibertyGotcha.
Identifiers. That's where it's at~
Thank you all so much for the information and suggestions! This was all very helpful.
Edit: Someone commented before I could post this. Doggone.
author=SolitayreAlrighty. Thanks for your input.
Small maps are almost always better. They're easier to navigate and they'll have less empty space for you as the creator to fill. The best maps make excellent use of negative space.
author=SolitayreI'll look into that! Thank you.
Our own Nessiah has an excellent series of articles on map design. http://rpgmaker.net/users/Archeia_Nessiah/articles/
hedge1
862
There's also the chance that you're overly worried about this. Someone getting lost in a large world is normal. And so long as each part of the map looks at least somewhat different, people will start to identify key locations.
What I might ask instead is how this relates with game play. Is the game heavily linear? If so, you may want to consider a setup that's less conducive to exploration, since in a linear game "exploration" is another word for "hopelessly lost." On the flip side, if your game is intended to be more open world and exploration based, then "lost" is just "finding something new."
Another consideration is travel time. Will players be traversing through these large maps repeatedly? If so you may need to look at finding ways to keep interest high during long walks, offer modes of expedited transportation, or shrink the maps.
You can also ask yourself if getting lost and finding one's way through large maps is part of the game or not. There aren't a lot of rm games with that as a theme, and properly handled it could be an interesting game. Though mishandled and it could also just be annoying. On the other hand, if you have players commonly return to general areas only to then move to new locations off of them, you can reward players who learned the large map layouts as well as gradually reveal them. A lot of people enjoy extra large city maps. It could be like that.
What I might ask instead is how this relates with game play. Is the game heavily linear? If so, you may want to consider a setup that's less conducive to exploration, since in a linear game "exploration" is another word for "hopelessly lost." On the flip side, if your game is intended to be more open world and exploration based, then "lost" is just "finding something new."
Another consideration is travel time. Will players be traversing through these large maps repeatedly? If so you may need to look at finding ways to keep interest high during long walks, offer modes of expedited transportation, or shrink the maps.
You can also ask yourself if getting lost and finding one's way through large maps is part of the game or not. There aren't a lot of rm games with that as a theme, and properly handled it could be an interesting game. Though mishandled and it could also just be annoying. On the other hand, if you have players commonly return to general areas only to then move to new locations off of them, you can reward players who learned the large map layouts as well as gradually reveal them. A lot of people enjoy extra large city maps. It could be like that.
Fruebis
34
author=hedge1
There's also the chance that you're overly worried about this. Someone getting lost in a large world is normal.
Alrighty.
author=hedge1It is open world, and I can see what you mean.
Is the game heavily linear? If so, you may want to consider a setup that's less conducive to exploration, since in a linear game "exploration" is another word for "hopelessly lost." On the flip side, if your game is intended to be more open world and exploration based, then "lost" is just "finding something new."
author=hedge1
offer modes of expedited transportation, or shrink the maps.
Okay. I'll work on that.
author-hedge1
You can also ask yourself if getting lost and finding one's way through large maps is part of the game or not.
Hmm... Alrighty.
author-hedge1
you can reward players who learned the large map layouts as well as gradually reveal them. A lot of people enjoy extra large city maps. It could be like that.
Okay. I think I understand that.
LightningLord2
230
RPG Maker MV has a neat feature that makes exploration even easier - it contains the option of having each map display a name upon entry.
There's something else you might want to consider in an open world game: As you may know, most RPGs feature a leveling system of some sorts, which leads to different problems when balancing enemy stats/levels. With static levels, you enforce a play order that stifles the player's ability to explore freely. On the other hand, scaled levels can feel dissatisfying as they strip character levels of any value. What is your approach to this?
There's something else you might want to consider in an open world game: As you may know, most RPGs feature a leveling system of some sorts, which leads to different problems when balancing enemy stats/levels. With static levels, you enforce a play order that stifles the player's ability to explore freely. On the other hand, scaled levels can feel dissatisfying as they strip character levels of any value. What is your approach to this?
Fruebis
34
author=LightningLord2Interesting! I believe VX Ace has that too. ^^
RPG Maker MV has a neat feature that makes exploration even easier - it contains the option of having each map display a name upon entry.
author=LightningLord2
As you may know, most RPGs feature a leveling system of some sorts, which leads to different problems when balancing enemy stats/levels. With static levels, you enforce a play order that stifles the player's ability to explore freely. On the other hand, scaled levels can feel dissatisfying as they strip character levels of any value. What is your approach to this?
Hmm... I hadn't thought of that until just now... I suppose you could do it in a fashion such as this:
When you start out, you'll get a bunch of level 1 monsters, and as you level, the lower-leveled monsters become less common, and higher leveled monsters start appearing. However, since you're really just adding in monsters, you won't necessarily get a bunch of high-level monsters, and you can still have some low-level ones as well.
Alternatively, you could have areas contain higher-leveled monsters as you conquer other areas. (Example: The more rainbow stars you get in the game, the harder the other stars become) However, this may have the same problem as constantly-leveling monsters.
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