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UNDERTALE AND LEITMOTIFS
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Luiishu535
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CloseGreetings, lovely RMNers! I'm here to ask you about your opinions on leitmotifs in video game music and how Undertale used that technique. If you don't know what leitmotifs are, then please, let my boy Google help you out:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=leitmotif
(It's just a let me Google that for you link...)
So, with that out of the way, what do you think about leitmotifs? Are they nostalgic? Do they offer character development to the music? Are they lazy and make the music more repetitive? Do you not like them?
Why do/don't you like leitmotifs? What's your opinion on Undertale's use of the technique?
The reason why I'm asking this is because I'm planning to go kind of crazy with this stuff for a future game of mine. Here are some examples of how I am planning to use leitmotifs in my game:
A safe haven theme: this theme will change and develop depending on location and plot. It will basically be a theme playing in safe areas (my game is going to take place in a huge dungeon where most places aren't safe).
I plan on having one safe haven that won't be as safe as the rest of them. In order to hint at this from a musical perspective, I'm going to add some dissonance to the harmony, add some "wrong" notes to the melody and change the rhythms a bit (the piece is actually very calming usually, so players are definitely going to notice this unless they've muted the audio for some reason). My goal with this is to give the player the impression that something's just not right and that he/she/it should be prepared.
The theme of the safe haven will also appear in the main theme of the game and the ending.
Example and inspiration: the Typewriter/safe rooms in the Resident Evil series.
Character themes: these will basically be themes related to specific characters in the game. The themes may also develop through the course of the game (main character's theme might sound a bit dark/evil if the player has made some "bad" choices).
Examples: most video games, but mainly JRPGs.
Different ending themes: there will be different endings to the game, mainly a good and a bad one. They will share the same theme, but the mood of theme will be changed depending on if the player received the good or bad ending.
Battle themes: for the sake of variety, I'm planning to compose multiple themes for both normal and boss battles. However, I might keep the main battle theme fundamentally the same and just do some different arrangements/versions of it to keep things a bit fresh.
Hints at secrets: there will be lots of secrets in the game and I think it would be cool to give the player some hints at this through the game's music. Examples: I might add in some various background noises/melodies/figures/patterns to certain areas that contain secrets. These effects will fade out and be removed when the player has found out/triggered the secret.
Variations on the main theme: I would like to add some elements of the main theme to a variety of pieces in the game. A more dark and evil variation on the melody might be heard in the Dark Corridors or Dungeon of the Forgotten. My reason for reusing elements of the main theme is because I want to get some unity going for the game. Nostalgia is also another factor.
Example and inspiration: Undertale and its main theme.
I'm sorry if this is a bit long, but I would just like to add in some details and examples to the ground of the discussion. I can show you some musical examples from my game if that's okay (also; do provide some musical examples in your post(s) if you want).
I'm not trying to market my game, but I can understand that this may look like a subtle attempt. In either case, that's not my intention and I'm sorry if it came off that way.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=leitmotif
(It's just a let me Google that for you link...)
So, with that out of the way, what do you think about leitmotifs? Are they nostalgic? Do they offer character development to the music? Are they lazy and make the music more repetitive? Do you not like them?
Why do/don't you like leitmotifs? What's your opinion on Undertale's use of the technique?
The reason why I'm asking this is because I'm planning to go kind of crazy with this stuff for a future game of mine. Here are some examples of how I am planning to use leitmotifs in my game:
A safe haven theme: this theme will change and develop depending on location and plot. It will basically be a theme playing in safe areas (my game is going to take place in a huge dungeon where most places aren't safe).
I plan on having one safe haven that won't be as safe as the rest of them. In order to hint at this from a musical perspective, I'm going to add some dissonance to the harmony, add some "wrong" notes to the melody and change the rhythms a bit (the piece is actually very calming usually, so players are definitely going to notice this unless they've muted the audio for some reason). My goal with this is to give the player the impression that something's just not right and that he/she/it should be prepared.
The theme of the safe haven will also appear in the main theme of the game and the ending.
Example and inspiration: the Typewriter/safe rooms in the Resident Evil series.
Character themes: these will basically be themes related to specific characters in the game. The themes may also develop through the course of the game (main character's theme might sound a bit dark/evil if the player has made some "bad" choices).
Examples: most video games, but mainly JRPGs.
Different ending themes: there will be different endings to the game, mainly a good and a bad one. They will share the same theme, but the mood of theme will be changed depending on if the player received the good or bad ending.
Battle themes: for the sake of variety, I'm planning to compose multiple themes for both normal and boss battles. However, I might keep the main battle theme fundamentally the same and just do some different arrangements/versions of it to keep things a bit fresh.
Hints at secrets: there will be lots of secrets in the game and I think it would be cool to give the player some hints at this through the game's music. Examples: I might add in some various background noises/melodies/figures/patterns to certain areas that contain secrets. These effects will fade out and be removed when the player has found out/triggered the secret.
Variations on the main theme: I would like to add some elements of the main theme to a variety of pieces in the game. A more dark and evil variation on the melody might be heard in the Dark Corridors or Dungeon of the Forgotten. My reason for reusing elements of the main theme is because I want to get some unity going for the game. Nostalgia is also another factor.
Example and inspiration: Undertale and its main theme.
I'm sorry if this is a bit long, but I would just like to add in some details and examples to the ground of the discussion. I can show you some musical examples from my game if that's okay (also; do provide some musical examples in your post(s) if you want).
I'm not trying to market my game, but I can understand that this may look like a subtle attempt. In either case, that's not my intention and I'm sorry if it came off that way.
Well in my humble opinion undertale isn't by far the first game to use iconic music. Leitmotifs are very common in games.
Anyway your ideas are fine, but do make sure your melody sounds nice even after listening to it a hundred times, otherwise the recurring melodies will get tiresome instead of evoking the nostalgia you seek. (though is it nostalgia if you're listening these tracks for the first time?)
Anyway your ideas are fine, but do make sure your melody sounds nice even after listening to it a hundred times, otherwise the recurring melodies will get tiresome instead of evoking the nostalgia you seek. (though is it nostalgia if you're listening these tracks for the first time?)
If I'm understanding correctly then I think the Fallout series benefited greatly from using old songs. so much so that whole generations were able to enjoy the same.music their parents and grandparents did. Which I think is pretty cool. :)
@Mirak: The reason I choose Undertale was because I've never seen players affected by leitmotifs as much as the Underfans.
I do try to listen to my compositions a lot with both critical and non-critical ears.
I think that nostalgia is a rather complex feeling, but I believe that it can be invoked by hitting a certain mood and atmosphere with the music. Yes, if done correctly, I believe that listeners can feel a sense of nostalgic if they listen to a piece of music for the first time. I can be hard to do though, since people have different nostalgic experiences.
@InfectionFiles: Having a general and continuous main theme for a franchise is a great way of giving it identity and recognition.
I do try to listen to my compositions a lot with both critical and non-critical ears.
I think that nostalgia is a rather complex feeling, but I believe that it can be invoked by hitting a certain mood and atmosphere with the music. Yes, if done correctly, I believe that listeners can feel a sense of nostalgic if they listen to a piece of music for the first time. I can be hard to do though, since people have different nostalgic experiences.
@InfectionFiles: Having a general and continuous main theme for a franchise is a great way of giving it identity and recognition.
SpecialAgentApe
575
Lietfmotif is wonderful, it works very well for story heavy games and character focused ones. It's best in my opinion not to chain yourself to the motifs and instead sneak them into other melodies to give the soundtrack a cohesive interconnected feeling without the motifs themselves getting old and stale. If you are doing a project with lietfmotif, make sure you are using them in a lot of different ways, otherwise you may do the opposite of what you are wanting to make the player feel.
Look at Left 4 Dead. Every single Special Infected that you would get in contact with will have a certain sound effect (or just a shortened leitmotif) to notify the player or to let them know that death's shite is coming at them. Leitmotifs serve both gameplay and story, and using both give players an easy way to tutor them of what the game has and to establish a sort of atmosphere (of course).
Also, ever played/heard of Asura's Wrath? They did it well enough, but the gameplay was the one that drew it back.
Also, ever played/heard of Asura's Wrath? They did it well enough, but the gameplay was the one that drew it back.
horror_n_oates
695
If the game is exploration-based, a piece of music that actually worked as a subtle immersive mechanic was in Skyrim, walking out in the world and suddenly hearing the drums of the battle theme usually indicated that an enemy was hostile. I remember this was a cue for me to get ready for battle while my attention was off whatever the game wanted me to pull my efforts toward. It never really had to pull away the controls from me to make me react.
In LoZ, Zelda's Lullaby is a recurring piece, usually done in different renditions in its various games. If anything, the leitmotif there reinforces the formula nintendo's been milking, but is usually brought out to instill a sense of familiarity with the player, mostly those who just know it from the other games. This done in the same way in Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies with The Shire's theme. Repetition to enforce the recollection of a feeling really.
In LoZ, Zelda's Lullaby is a recurring piece, usually done in different renditions in its various games. If anything, the leitmotif there reinforces the formula nintendo's been milking, but is usually brought out to instill a sense of familiarity with the player, mostly those who just know it from the other games. This done in the same way in Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies with The Shire's theme. Repetition to enforce the recollection of a feeling really.
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