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WHEN DO YOU HAVE TOO MANY SIDE QUESTS?

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I think you shouldn't have more then 2-3 side quests at one time because, first of all, if the quest isn't related to the main story, it kinda breaks the momentum you had. "Hmm... the world is about to get destroyed but give me two seconds, i'll go deliver this love letter to someone.". Also if you have too many quests, most of the time you're left with easy / low level quests that gives a small reward.

So how about you guys? How much is too much?
When they feel pointless and no fun, they shouldn't be there. That's really all there is to it : D haha.
I like when they give you more lore, or when they give you more character attributes and make you explore areas you wouldn't quite otherwise. They can be pretty fun as a distraction too.
I'm usually not too concerned about the timer (there are a few games where they buildup was so good it felt a little weird, like Okami, but I still loved it because it allowed you to stay in the world and roam a while before being locked in). It's really more about fun and utility.
As a rule of thumb naturally, fewer are better since it allows them to be done right.
No such thing~ XD

Just, you know, put some actual thought into them to make them feel different at least. I love Skyrim and the Skyrim sidequests but they could do with a bit more meat on some of them to make them feel less like "Go get this thing here for me by killing a billion bandits in a dungeon".


That said, a sidequest with actual thought and detail and made for reasons is always better than something small and simple, HOWEVER, sometimes it's nice to have something to do when you're running through a dungeon on the way to the next town.

It's all about how you design the side quest - if you make something that requires you to gather drops, then make the drop rate decent so that you're not there grinding for the items. If you make a 'kill x monsters' quest, either have the amount of monsters to kill small or make the battles with those kinds of monsters fast (and/or give more than one monster in a battle). If your making a 'hand the soap' quest, then make it and the characters more interesting (instead of just saying "I need soap, plz go to shop and buy for me" how about "My ring broke and I got it fixed but my husband is home and I can't get it, can you grab it and sneak in to me so he won't see?" or "I need x herbs" could be "Please help me pick flowers for my sisters wedding bouquet." and then you can get to go to the wedding. It's a bit more interesting.)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
If the player gets to the point where they have to stop and try to remember what their main goal is, you've got too many sidequests.

Micro-goals are fun and keep players engaged in what they're doing in the immediate sense. But players also need to know their concrete long-term goals, and always feel like they're working towards them, or they'll have no reason to come back to the game after putting it down. If they ever put the game down at the point where their next goal is "do some irrelevant shit that's out of the way," they'll probably never come back to actually do it. There's no draw to that. Most of FF15 feels like this, and a lot of Skyrim can easily feel like this if you try to do each quest as you pick it up. As a result, a lot of people never finish those games. They just get bored and stop playing.
Bored... but only after the 100 hour mark has been breached, which is a pretty good slog for a game. In some games you'd rather do the side quests than the main mission because of how much more fun and interesting they are in comparison (I still haven't finished Skyrim main mission because it got to be a drag in comparison to the fun of running around doing quests and exploring).

It -really- depends on your game, though. Some games are enhanced to have a ton of sidequests. Some aren't, because the main story is much more interesting. Personally I'm a "Load me up, I'm going questin'!" type of player - it's nice to have the option of a bunch of quests to let me explore the world and areas you've made. Of course some people are more story-oriented and prefer to focus on just that, with only a few side-trips here and there. Allowing for both players is the ideal - letting there be quests that can divert attention or let you scramble around in the thick of the world you've made, and making them optional so that only if you seek them out will you find them.


One thing I really appreciate when it comes to side quest design is follow-up. Say you gave a beggar 20G early in the game. A while down the track you meet the same beggar, except he managed to find a job, get a wife and move to a better phase of his life. He gives you back more than you gave him, because your pittance, with no desire for payback, helped him make that change. Or that girl who you helped gather flowers for, for her sister's wedding bouquet - you later on meet the sister, now happily married and pregnant, and do a quest for her.

Quests can unlock quests - one way of providing optional quests is allowing the deliberate missing of quests to lock access to other quests. You ignore the beggar wanting money. Later on you can't do a quest for him as a rich man because he's now been thrown in jail. The girl whose wedding you never went to since you never helped her sister collect flowers has no reason to engage you in conversation and ask you for another favour. That quest is locked away - time passed, you missed out - there may be other small quests in the town but not that one.

Don't be afraid to base quests around your party members. One of the things I liked about Clouded Heart was that to get the best weapons and armour of each character you had to do an optional side-quest based on those characters - in which you learned more about their pasts or their thoughts, beliefs and dreams. Final Fantasy games did this in the early games and it helped the characters grow a little. Who doesn't remember learning about Lucretia when getting Vincent's best weapon, or Locke's history with Racheal? Those stories were tied up in quests that were completely optional to the game but allowed for a more complete picture of the characters. You, too, can do that kind of thing when it comes to quests.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
LockeZ
If the player gets to the point where they have to stop and try to remember what their main goal is, you've got too many sidequests.


Or you could do what Elder Scrolls does and put in so many side quests that most people don't even realize there's a main story arc.
author=pianotm
LockeZ
If the player gets to the point where they have to stop and try to remember what their main goal is, you've got too many sidequests.
Or you could do what Elder Scrolls does and put in so many side quests that most people don't even realize there's a main story arc.
The main story's just a long series of inter-connected side-quests.
Melkino
solos collectors on purpose
2021
I'd say there's too many sidequests when they end up killing the pacing or urgency in the main plot, or if skipping the sidequests becomes a recommended tip for new players. (Like "get out of the Hinterlands" in DA:I, because that first area is frontloaded with piles of uncompelling fetch quests)
You have too many sidequests when they start working against, or at least don't actively enhance, the experience your game proposes.

In some games even having one sidequest is enough to quantify as "too many sidequests". Think Parasite Eve; if the story allowed you leeway in doing other things and fetch quests it would absolutely hurt the narrative. In other games, it is ALL about the sidequests, such as Romancing SaGa.
I enjoy sidequests that encompass a larger scope of the game, such as collecting Small Medals throughout a Dragon Quest game, or killing rare monsters throughout (like the Hunting system in Rogue Galaxy).

What I DON'T like is sidequests that bring the pacing of the game to a halt; ones that don't coincide or can be reasonably completed within your main objective, especially in more linear RPGs. I'd rather a sidequest tell me to kill 3 Whatchamacallits and collect two Stupid Rocks in the dungeon that I'm about to go in, or somewhere I will assuredly have a reason to visit later, and not somewhere 20 minutes out of the way. I dread being in the middle of a great story conflict or urgent part of the narrative and some bozo NPC tells me to go do something mundane a mile away. It feels like padding. And even a small handful of these can weigh down a story-driven game.
Liberty
Bored... but only after the 100 hour mark has been breached, which is a pretty good slog for a game.

(...)

The reason I avoid Elder Scrolls Games is that while I love questing and I DO sink time into it (I played Oblivion, nuff said), those 100 hours+ frankly feel like empty time, a time sink nothing more, nothing gained.
And, for me personally, wasted. I am just not a Bethesda fan. It even butchers the feel of progression.
There is no thing I can really be excited about retelling my experience or talking about the game, and I have sunken quite a few hours in many games.

It's a legitimate way to spend time for many, to be certain. But the quitting time does not necessarily make for quality time spent. Is my point.
Backwards_Cowboy
owned a Vita and WiiU. I know failure
1737
If the side-quests are optional, I don't see the problem with having an indefinite amount.

If you start pulling things like Xenoblade Chronicles X did where you either have to complete "side-quest x" to progress in the main story line, then that's not a side-quest. Or what they did with character-oriented side-quests where you were locked into them once you started, and there was a relatively rare glitch where you could be permanently stuck in them and unable to progress in the game as an event never activates to finish or progress in the side-quest.

I don't see a problem with the Skyrim or Fallout model of having thousands of quests, since they largely don't interfere with the game unless they add an item to your weight-based inventory that can't be removed until you finish the six-hour long side-quest.

Then there's Dragon's Dogma where most quests in the game can only be accepted and completed during small time frames within the main story line, leading many players to miss important items, or have characters disappear from the game forever due to not being rescued when the player may not have even known the quest to save them was available.
Cap_H
DIGITAL IDENTITY CRISIS
6625
If a game is open or have open areas, there is no problem with side-quests. Other thing is to communicate them to players, give them some kind of journal or make them significant enough for them to care. Collecting stuff as a side objective usually works too, even in a game, which pushes you forward.
I'm quite a completionist myself and usually end up lost in side-quest going through wikia if I got everything in area finished.
The only time I can accept side-quests is when they're a part of the main story—that they make sense.

For example, to use the example JosephSeraph put forth, Romancing SaGa: in that game, the player's character is just on an adventure and is a general do-gooder. There is usually a backstory to the character's position, but it's more the reason for the character being there, not a goal. Then, the main quest slowly unfolds out of all of the "side"-quests.

In other words, side-quests are bad when they compromise the goal of the game.

Side-quests are the random encounters of narrative.
I felt Witcher 3 pulled off side quests well. There was a story, it was more than "kill x of y", and they tend to have a lot of meat to them. Not that there's anything wrong with "kill x of y", because I love slaying side quests. If you want to keep the objectives simple, Diablo 3 did a good job of keeping the side quests along the route to where your main quest was, so it never felt like you were doing a wild goose chase by completing them.

As far as implementation goes, working in 3s can be helpful. Three side quests per major area or hub.
The Elder Scrolls are a game about sidequests. One of the biggest problem with Skyrim it the fact that it tries to buck this trend with its main story, but does nothing gameplay wise to change the pace.

If you look at Morrowind, Caius Cosades straight up TELLS you "GO DO SIDEQUESTS FOR AWHILE" and you actually need to go and do sidequests before you can progress (although there are ways around this, like there are ways around everything Morrowind). In Oblivion you're told "go to X place and meet Y", but you're free to blunder about on your own. The main quest encourages you to close Oblivion gates, its biggest sidequests. It wants you out there, exploring. Skyrim, on the other hand, has story missions like "LET'S RUSH TO THIS POINT AND FIGHT A DRAGON OMG RIGHT NOW" and then you are free to fuck off and loot 9012 tombs. The story missions are almost all structured this way- time is of the essence, let's get to it right now!- which is totally opposing to the meat of the game. In my opinion, the faction related quests (which are almost as in depth as the main story is) are better structured for the reason people play Elder Scrolls. If you have sidequests, they need to compliment your game's style.

If your game is linear, then you sidequests should be, too. Like SgtMettool said, having quests as optional objectives to encourage exploration is perfect. Going into a big cave? Reward the player for finding 3 Fungus that are out of the way. Finding 3 Fungus is a shitty quest on its own, but if you're in the cave anyway, it becomes a little bit more meat on an existing bone.

If your game is open-world, every sidequest should have some ramification on the world, even if its tiny. The Elder Scroll sidequests have no real point other than to get a pittance of gold and some useless experience. But having sidequests that open up new merchants or NPCs, or alternate routes for the main quests... oh baby, now you're talking.

Your best bet for sidequests to make a thousand of them and then trim down, combine, and optimize them until you have a handful for each area. A few small, one or two medium, one big. Combine ideas into quest chains. Like Liberty said: you give someone some gold, and he heads to a nearby town. Maybe you help him out again, and you find him in some other town. Now he's on his feet, but he's got more needs. By the end, you've helped him, and earned a good reward. It feels like you've done something. Fetch quests are stupid, but not if they actually have an impact. "Fetch three pieces of iron ore and I'll give 11 moneys" is boring, but "fetch three pieces of iron ore and I'll sell you iron goods" is already better. While you're fetching three pieces of iron, maybe you found the last guy who went to fetch the iron. Maybe he's dead. Maybe it's a trap. Maybe necromancers have been hiding in the cave and townspeople have been sending people to die there. I don't know, use your own dang imagination.

The question "how many is too many" is always answered by "when it's not fun". So long as it's fun, the more the better. If you're just adding sidequests to say they're there (like every MMO) then you've gone too far. If you want a strong narrative and your sidequests are killing that, then stop. Of course, players are willing to forgive a slow story if the bits in between are super fun, so...
author=Gredge109
I felt Witcher 3 pulled off side quests well. There was a story, it was more than "kill x of y", and they tend to have a lot of meat to them. Not that there's anything wrong with "kill x of y", because I love slaying side quests. If you want to keep the objectives simple, Diablo 3 did a good job of keeping the side quests along the route to where your main quest was, so it never felt like you were doing a wild goose chase by completing them.

As far as implementation goes, working in 3s can be helpful. Three side quests per major area or hub.


I agree. Even when it was just a monster slaying quest, Witcher 3 did it very well. Heck, those type of quests actually tie into Geralt's actual job. (You know, slaying monsters normal humans can't deal with.) In addition on those quests you usually learned more about characters, the world, or just why the creation of witchers was deemed a necessary evil in the ages long past.

Also, if you love side quests check out the Winterruption event going on now. Its all about dem sidequests. Makes for good practice in implementing them.
Dragnfly
Beta testers!? No, this game needs a goddamn exorcist!
1786
I think how the sidequests are handled is more important than their quantity.

Consider if they're passive progression and fall more under game balance. Like, say you're going to a volcano next. So you pick up sidequests to collect 5 volcanic rock, slay 3 hotdog enemies and copy down the text from a tablet found there. It promotes exploration of the new area that you're going to be going to anyway, and since players are more likely to do it you don't have to worry about the balance as much. If you finished the volcano and then side quests opened up to make you go back in, especially if the game doesn't have a mechanic for harvest points or anything else interesting, it can get super boring and new areas might be too difficult if the dev was expecting you to do those backtracking quests.

Also, while I think character quests should be avoided entirely, people seem to like them so I'll mention them. Consider if some side quests will advance character development or lore. For example, I remember in Shadow Hearts 2 I never even used the fortune teller character much and it wasn't until a long while later that I learned everything interesting to her character was in sidequests that I didn't do. So if you are going to use sidequests to expand on characters, make sure that's not the only place it is.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
I don't necessarily agree character expansion can't be reserved for optional content.

Take Fire Emblem for example. You're controlling an army, so there are so many characters it's impossible to bring all their characters out well enough in the main storyline. There just isn't enough game to do that in, and would probably really mess up the pacing. But every character has unique optional supports they can build with other characters that besides giving stat boosts when the characters are near each other, also unlocks special cutscenes that expand both the characters in the support. I think this is a great way of handling character development in the case of a large crew of playable characters. Rather than slowing down the main game with each character's backstory, it's reserved for the optional content that players can choose to take their time to learn. Of course, if you only have a small group of playable characters, their character development is probably more vital to the narrative and should be in the main game.

In the same way, I don't agree with the people claiming that sidequests slow down the narrative to a halt or trivialize it. If content can be skipped entirely, it doesn't slow down the narrative. The whole reason for making content optional is so that it doesn't slow down the narrative. Some people might enjoy taking a game slowly and exploring everything and unlocking everything. That in no way detracts from the experience other players might have by just following the narrative and skipping all optional content. Unless, of course, the game becomes too difficult if you skip the bonus content because it expects you to do it. But in that case the content isn't really optional.
I like to think of sidequests as an additive feature. Sure, you've got the basic game lore and characterisation - enough to make your characters and world feel well-rounded if you're doing it right - but sometimes there's bits to their stories that you can't really put in the main quest of the game. That's where sidequests come in handy. They become an in-game DLC, the payment being the time you spend on them.

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