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NOT SURE IF ANYONE'S NOTICED...
Posts
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
LockeZ
View playlists
CloseI'm not excluding myself. 8 of my 9 games are hot garbage and one of them is kind of okay.
author=LockeZ
Some stuff about RPG Maker being bottom of the barrel.
The Tenth Line is made in Unity3D. Just sayin' bro.
bulmabriefs144
snip
It is professionally and morally irresponsible to fail to point out perceived flaws in any media that you have reviewed, and if you think reviews should be written only to praise, and/or ignore the substantial problems that games tend to have, then you are neither competent or qualified to write reviews or to dictate how they're written. It is professionally irresponsible because you are providing a service, either as a job or a hobby, and to fail to properly review media in such a capacity is a failure to provide that service. Games do need to be reviewed properly, which means that if they're jacked, the reviewer needs to say that they're jacked. It is morally irresponsible because failing to point out the problems and flaws in media you are reviewing is tantamount to lying and deceiving the developer by withholding or outright misrepresenting information that he or she needs, requires, cannot do without, in the improvement of his or her art.
If you are writing reviews based on the flawed and misguided philosophy you have more than once espoused, then please stop. In doing so, you are not helping devs, you are hurting them.
LockeZ
I'm not excluding myself. 8 of my 9 games are hot garbage and one of them is kind of okay.
Actually, three are really good, one is okay, and the other 5 are hot garbage. (I actually don't know because I've never played the other five)
EDIT: In case you're wondering:
REALLY GOOD:
Iniquity & Vindication
Born Under the Rain (Yes, I count team games)
Flower Bubble Game (It actually is good)
OKAY:
Vindication
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=pianotmI wouldn't know because he deleted it!
The Tenth Line is made in Unity3D. Just sayin' bro.
piantotm, wtf? "Morally irresponsible"? This is not a medical field. Nobody will die if you don't do your job. There is also a way of doing reviews that instead of immediately canceling out any good points (which he did in his disorganized review about a supposedly disorganized game), we talk about the pros in one section, and talk about the cons at the end. This is how a decent review works, it doesn't immediate tell the author "this was good but not really" it holds off and then does a critique. Then we give them the benefit of the doubt. I am sure I can locate some .5 reviews that should have been unrated. I am also sure I can locate some supposedly 3.5 reviews I would have put at unrated. And I haven't played this game but even I can tell, flawed or not, it doesn't appear so flawed as to be inoperable.
Unrated is "nobody picked it up to review" or "game breaking bugs if they did review" these seemed to simply be poor design decision, and even that is on the rater. Their opinion.
A game should not be lacking in three things: design, quality, and creativity. Of the three, most of the reviewers here put creativity at the bottom of the list. I don't. A game should be as weird and quirky as its author. We are NOT professionals, most of us. We don't not need to be held up to the rigid streamline standards.
Did it a game tell a story we haven't heard yet? Does the art appear original versus the TENTH LINE (pun intended) of RTP knockoffs. Is anything interesting done? These receive priority (to me) to a technically correct game which has nothing extra. Show me your game with a custom rhythm battle engine, I'll play it. Or an rpg2003 board game. Show me yet another game that has no bugs to speak of, and no feature creep, and I'll conclude you weren't interested enough in the game to take a risk.
Moral duty? Don't make me laugh. It is you moral duty NOT to squash the creative drive of game designers. When they toss their games in frustration because your standards are impossible, you've just killed someone's happiness. I'm talking to you, all you guys that had me edit my text no less than 12 times, until I finally decide "I'm going to make a syrupy pink, white, and pinker valentine's textset." How is this moral?!? No, you shouldn't humor them, give criticism where due but at least bother to give them a SCORE when work was done. A game has to be complete garbage to warrant that treatment.
Unrated is "nobody picked it up to review" or "game breaking bugs if they did review" these seemed to simply be poor design decision, and even that is on the rater. Their opinion.
A game should not be lacking in three things: design, quality, and creativity. Of the three, most of the reviewers here put creativity at the bottom of the list. I don't. A game should be as weird and quirky as its author. We are NOT professionals, most of us. We don't not need to be held up to the rigid streamline standards.
Did it a game tell a story we haven't heard yet? Does the art appear original versus the TENTH LINE (pun intended) of RTP knockoffs. Is anything interesting done? These receive priority (to me) to a technically correct game which has nothing extra. Show me your game with a custom rhythm battle engine, I'll play it. Or an rpg2003 board game. Show me yet another game that has no bugs to speak of, and no feature creep, and I'll conclude you weren't interested enough in the game to take a risk.
Moral duty? Don't make me laugh. It is you moral duty NOT to squash the creative drive of game designers. When they toss their games in frustration because your standards are impossible, you've just killed someone's happiness. I'm talking to you, all you guys that had me edit my text no less than 12 times, until I finally decide "I'm going to make a syrupy pink, white, and pinker valentine's textset." How is this moral?!? No, you shouldn't humor them, give criticism where due but at least bother to give them a SCORE when work was done. A game has to be complete garbage to warrant that treatment.
BlackWolf1992
234
Look at this way...
You create a game and put your heart and soul into it. Now would you rather have a kind and gentle review that is subjective or a review that is harsh but objective? A kind and gentle view may not help your game at all. However, hearing what the reviewer says (even if it is harsh) can lead to a much better game.
You create a game and put your heart and soul into it. Now would you rather have a kind and gentle review that is subjective or a review that is harsh but objective? A kind and gentle view may not help your game at all. However, hearing what the reviewer says (even if it is harsh) can lead to a much better game.
Dyhalto
7536
FYI bulma, scores generally aren't given to Demos. The expectation is that issues brought up during the development stage will be ironed out by the time the final product is released.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Any other skill can be learned, and if you don't have it, then you can stick around and listen to criticism until you learn it. But if the skill you don't have is being able to accept criticism, that can't be learned. Just give up and stop trying to work in a creative field. Come back if you ever become a better person. In the meantime, gamers are better off without you.
bulmabriefs144
Snip
I'm very sorry, but I don't have any cheese to go with your whine. If you want to be coddled, that's your business, but if you expect the community at large to coddle you, then you're living in a fantasy world. If you don't have the fortitude to take criticism, then you shouldn't be doing creative endeavors to begin with. Criticism helps us to grow and mature, and I'm not going to lie just because I might hurt your fee-fees. That doesn't help anyone. When a person criticizes you, if all you can do is put your fingers in your ears and shout nonsense at them, all you're doing is demonstrating that you're not mature enough to participate.
Neither one. I would rather have an average review. And my biggest beef wasn't even the review itself, but again, when you Unrated a review, the average is basically added to 0. This lowers any chance of the game getting seen again.
Okay, piano let's test this theory.
1. The Quest of Lost Memories that title picture looks like complete crap. I hate it. Dry Fate those hedges are all blocky. And what's that even supposed to be on your third game, it just looks stupid.
2. I actually like the homemade style of the Quest of Lost Memories, the lighthouse in the notebook looks cool, so does alot of the other art. One thing though, the woman's waistline should extend slightly lower, and feel more curved. In women, the shoulders should not be so much broader than the hips (unless the woman is transgender or crossdressing then you may break this rule), so try to widen the hips and make her appear more curvy. Dry Fate would have benefited from a custom chipset, although I do like what I saw of the plot and what dialogue you posted. I'll be honest, InnerFace is not to my taste, but it happens. I think it is a good exercise in surrealism, but the key thing about surrealism is juxtaposition of ideas in a meaningful way. As I couldn't figure out what it meant, maybe try being more obvious when stringing ideas together symbolically.
Did #1 help you grow at all? No? That's because this thinking is wrong.
There's criticism. And then there's constructive criticism. I'm not living in a dream world to demand one actually be observed. Do you realize in the case of the text that had poor contrast, if anyone had sent pictures of text that stood out properly, I could have been done in 4 tries rather than twelve? It's not coddling, it's sticking to purely useful criticism. Since it's 2am here, I'm going to bed.
Okay, piano let's test this theory.
1. The Quest of Lost Memories that title picture looks like complete crap. I hate it. Dry Fate those hedges are all blocky. And what's that even supposed to be on your third game, it just looks stupid.
2. I actually like the homemade style of the Quest of Lost Memories, the lighthouse in the notebook looks cool, so does alot of the other art. One thing though, the woman's waistline should extend slightly lower, and feel more curved. In women, the shoulders should not be so much broader than the hips (unless the woman is transgender or crossdressing then you may break this rule), so try to widen the hips and make her appear more curvy. Dry Fate would have benefited from a custom chipset, although I do like what I saw of the plot and what dialogue you posted. I'll be honest, InnerFace is not to my taste, but it happens. I think it is a good exercise in surrealism, but the key thing about surrealism is juxtaposition of ideas in a meaningful way. As I couldn't figure out what it meant, maybe try being more obvious when stringing ideas together symbolically.
Did #1 help you grow at all? No? That's because this thinking is wrong.
There's criticism. And then there's constructive criticism. I'm not living in a dream world to demand one actually be observed. Do you realize in the case of the text that had poor contrast, if anyone had sent pictures of text that stood out properly, I could have been done in 4 tries rather than twelve? It's not coddling, it's sticking to purely useful criticism. Since it's 2am here, I'm going to bed.
BlackWolf1992
234
If we are being technical here unrated does not mean zero.
Unrated simply means not having received a rating or assessment.
So you just want an average game, with an average story, average gameplay, average graphics, with an average plot that is for average people? xD Sounds...average.
Unrated simply means not having received a rating or assessment.
So you just want an average game, with an average story, average gameplay, average graphics, with an average plot that is for average people? xD Sounds...average.
I want a niche game. One that people who like quirky stuff download, but people who are trendy-chasers and only care about 5 rated stuff don't bother with. An average rated game doesn't necessarily imply a boring game. Earthbound or Mother 3 as a model. Not everyone likes, the graphics are kinda unexceptional, but holy crap it's pretty weird.
And guys I seriously need to sleep. Shut up already for the next 6 hours.
And guys I seriously need to sleep. Shut up already for the next 6 hours.
bulmabriefs144
Okay, piano let's test this theory.
1. The Quest of Lost Memories that title picture looks like complete crap. I hate it. Dry Fate those hedges are all blocky. And what's that even supposed to be on your third game, it just looks stupid.
While the first and third tell me nothing, the second one is really quite useful, and is in fact, just as inoffensive as your examples in two.
2. I actually like the homemade style of the Quest of Lost Memories, the lighthouse in the notebook looks cool, so does alot of the other art. One thing though, the woman's waistline should extend slightly lower, and feel more curved. In women, the shoulders should not be so much broader than the hips (unless the woman is transgender or crossdressing then you may break this rule), so try to widen the hips and make her appear more curvy.
This is also quite useful).
Dry Fate would have benefited from a custom chipset, although I do like what I saw of the plot and what dialogue you posted.
This is actually not as useful as what you posted in your first example. While it's nicely complimenting and appreciated, your comment about Dry Fate in example one actually gave me a workable detail that I could use.
I'll be honest, InnerFace is not to my taste, but it happens. I think it is a good exercise in surrealism, but the key thing about surrealism is juxtaposition of ideas in a meaningful way. As I couldn't figure out what it meant, maybe try being more obvious when stringing ideas together symbolically.
This is actually the least informative and couches vaguery in jargon. The suggestion is that you could not see meaning, but fails to tell me what you were expecting from the content. However, a drug dealer selling a girl a mysterious fluid in a back alley that helps her connect to a virtual world shouldn't have been too difficult to decipher. My first thought is that you didn't read the whole thing. Anyway, there's never been a download. All you could have done was read the flavor on the gamepage. I'm actually less impressed with this than I am with your first example. Your criticism of the art in Quest for Lost Memories is the only solidly useful criticism you gave in example two.
EDIT: At least the comment "This is stupid! What is that even supposed to be?" made me think about what I had drawn and written whereas your criticism of InnerFace in example two made me stop and think about what you said and whether there was anything really useful in it.
Did #1 help you grow at all? No?
Perhaps you should re-evaluate what constitutes constructive criticism. You clearly don't understand that tone and attitude don't mean nearly as much as content and information.
That's because this thinking is wrong.
No, it's not. It forms the basis of the thought you're trying to construct. You successfully conveyed a useful criticism of Dry Fate. Now think about why you don't like about Quest of Lost Memories and InnerFace and put that into words.
There's criticism. And then there's constructive criticism. I'm not living in a dream world to demand one actually be observed. Do you realize in the case of the text that had poor contrast, if anyone had sent pictures of text that stood out properly, I could have been done in 4 tries rather than twelve? It's not coddling, it's sticking to purely useful criticism. Since it's 2am here, I'm going to bed.
This paragraph means nothing in context of this discussion. NTC3's review was well thought out and entirely constructive. There wasn't one part of it that wasn't useful to Deltree. You're essentially hiding behind a straw man; trying to call NTC3's criticism non-constructive as an excuse to support your position in this thread.
I could play this same exercise with you, except I don't have to. I already know how you respond to constructive criticism.
Xenomic's Review of Oracle of Tao
EDIT: TL;DR churlish insults are often more informative than excessively PC compliments.
Quite frankly, the fact that you see any kind of detrimental comments as an attack instead of pointing out issues and equal to being rude says a lot about your ability to take any kind of criticism. You're trying to argue that couching criticism in aggressive and cruel tone equates to any kind of constructive criticism and this particular review in particular. That's just silly.
There's a huge difference between saying "This is dumb, I think it looks bad" and "This isn't as good as it could be, if you did this or this it could help it look better" and even, "While I appreciate the work that went into creating this picture, I think that you need to look at more x or y in order to learn how to do this part better."
You are literally saying that telling someone that their game seems disjointed and not as coherent and well-meshed as it could be is as bad as saying their game is crap. It's not. It's literally telling them that this is an issue that they should probably think about and change if they so wish. It is not saying their content is bad, nor is it saying their time was wasted. It is literally telling them "I think this is an issue you should think about fixing because I think that people won't like the product as much if you don't."
And the fact that you think N/A = nothing is beyond silly. For one, N/A does not change the score of any other reviews that come along, like a 0 would (because we average scores, currently, as a way of finding the 'star worth' of a game). If that were true then a game with two N/A, one 4 and one 5 would be equal to 2.25 stars instead of 4.5 like it actually does. N/A != 0
There's a huge difference between saying "This is dumb, I think it looks bad" and "This isn't as good as it could be, if you did this or this it could help it look better" and even, "While I appreciate the work that went into creating this picture, I think that you need to look at more x or y in order to learn how to do this part better."
You are literally saying that telling someone that their game seems disjointed and not as coherent and well-meshed as it could be is as bad as saying their game is crap. It's not. It's literally telling them that this is an issue that they should probably think about and change if they so wish. It is not saying their content is bad, nor is it saying their time was wasted. It is literally telling them "I think this is an issue you should think about fixing because I think that people won't like the product as much if you don't."
And the fact that you think N/A = nothing is beyond silly. For one, N/A does not change the score of any other reviews that come along, like a 0 would (because we average scores, currently, as a way of finding the 'star worth' of a game). If that were true then a game with two N/A, one 4 and one 5 would be equal to 2.25 stars instead of 4.5 like it actually does. N/A != 0
BlackWolf1992
234
author=bulmabriefs144
Did #1 help you grow at all? No?author=pianotm
Perhaps you should re-evaluate what constitutes constructive criticism. You clearly don't understand that tone and attitude don't mean nearly as much as content and information.
bulma are you perhaps confusing the difference constructive and negative criticism?
I did read a good bit of the review of your game and you do not seem to handle constructive criticism very well. If you do not like constructive criticism then why not try showing your game to a child? I am sure they will think it is cool...or who knows maybe they would be even more brutally harsh. xD
NTC3
5625
author=bulmabriefs144
Maybe even serious problems. If you give a review and it is 0/5, it had better at least be completely ugly and horrible. Otherwise, maybe bump it to at least 1.5
As others have already told you, N/A means just that, "not rated". There is actually a reasonably well-known professional game website called RockPaperShotgun, which NEVER rates the games they play, even if they liked it a lot, and their "Wot I Think" pieces are included on Metacritic pages regardless. If I actually had to imagine this was the full game, then score would've been closer to 2.5 then anything else, if you're genuinely interested. I just didn't think writing that in the review, let alone using it as an official score, would've had helped anyone. I felt the text spoke for itself in that regard.
Perhaps the overall tone was harsher then that of a usual 2.5 star review here, but then, this is not an usual RMN game either. Now that steamspy.com has been active for nearly two years, I've had first-hand opportunity to see what happens to new games from (largely) unknown creators that get Metacritic score in the 50s, or even low 60s, right out of the gate. By and large, they tend not to get anywhere, and languish with ~5,000 sales or so. "Languish" is a key word; games that get good reviews can have very slow sales and be stuck to that level for a long time as well, but they can be reasonably confident people have seen it, and added to their wishlist, so that they eventually get all the "missing" sales back during the Steam-wide Summer/Christmas sales, even if they have to wait for more than a year. The games with more mediocre reviews are generally stuck in place, and don't receive much of a bump, even compared to games that lack any professional reviews whatsoever. (Here are some examples off the top of my head.)
So, honestly, the best I can predict from playing the game and years of closely following (any) reviews, is that if he goes ahead with the original release date (this March), it'll get on Metacritic soon after release (or at least the PS4 version will, since there are fewer games to compete for critics' attention there), and it'll likely get a score in the 60s: 62, 64, perhaps 58 or so, and sell accordingly. Perhaps something like this might be adequate for him, but I do believe that he desires better, and that the concept can be made much better, which is why I wrote the review in the first place.
Again, I could be in a minority here, and wrong about this. Perhaps it'll be a bone fide success and make him famous to the world at large. After all, I freely admit I seem to hold a minority opinion towards Middens. Kan Gao's first game, Quintessence: the Blighted Venom got a 1-star review here telling him not to make games again, which is all kinds of weird now that he's the only RM developer the average gamer can name. I suppose it's only the commercial release of The Tenth Line, be it in March, or much later, that'll ultimately settle the question.
author=unity
Hooray! :DDDDDD That's a relief!
author=eplipswich
Well, The Tenth Line gamepage is still down though.
Well, I can actually understand the logic behind this. After all, his other games have no relation to this matter, so depriving other people of them because of it is clearly unfair, so he reversed that decision (and that's a relief indeed.). By the time he took TTL's gamepage down, though, my review had nearly 400 views on it - that's about seven times more than the playthrough of it you did on YouTube, let alone the videos other people made. I can see that the gamepage itself might be considered a liability to the game's prospects in that regard, so taking it down, at least until he finally releases the game for sale, makes a certain kind of sense.
P.S. I've also looked for the game on YouTube when I first saw this happen, to try and get any information to figure this out, and found out he's disabled likes/comments on all his videos regarding the game, which is certainly his right, but not usually a wise thing to do. Perhaps I would've tried to be softer in the review if I knew this, but I had no reason to suspect such going in. Meanwhile, this video was apparently released on the same day my review was approved:
Perhaps, this has also contributed to the sudden takedown. I wouldn't know, but I guess it does show what the reaction of a more "average gamer" might be going into the game.
(Sorry for my probably bad English from here on out, ehrm).
I can understand that criticisms may be hard to accept. Making a game is no easy task. It is one of the hardest and most time consuming hobby, and most of us make games on our own so... game making requires a lot of work in a lot of fields. It takes time and effort for even the smallest map. I think we game makers are like, mythological beasts or something. How the heck can we go on with this hobby and say "yeah, it's normal, I can do that and still have a life". We're not normal at all, we are a crazy bunch, aaaaah.
... Ehrm, the point being:
Bulma, it's hard to accept criticism, but they are crucial in a developer's own personal quest to become the greatest mythological game making beast of all time. I think games that are made with a certain passion and that required a lot of work are the one that should be analyzed better for criticism. Because you can see that the developer loves what he's doing and wants to be better at it and lending criticism, suggestions or whatever to him it's like helping him in trying to become a kick-ass game maker. And it's beautiful when this happens, because you can see that there's someone that knows you can do better than that, wants to invest his time giving you his impressions, and wants to help you see what can be improved, what you exactly did wrong.
Like Pianotm said, it's like the most respectful thing you can do for that developer. Instead of just passing by, saying "Yeah, yeah, you did good. Here, have a cookie".
Let's face it, though. RPG Maker is one of the most simple engine out there, even a monkey could make a game out of it. So it's only natural that you get a lot of garbage together with very good games. Yeah, I know, that's not the only engine the community takes into consideration (and I know TTL was made with Unity3D, I'm generalizing (Is it correct to say "generalizing" in this sentence? Yeah? Yeah.)), but it's the main focus. Now, I don't think that garbage games deserve to be criticized more than good ones do. Because when something is utter garbage, it's difficult to say something more elaborate then "Ehrm, you may... want to try... like, better luck next time, okay? Byeeee *Car engine sound effect*"
No, the point is: I don't see why good games should not be criticized and garbage one should.
When a game is good, and YOU KNOW the author can do better than that... why not just tell him? Why not just help him realize what he did wrong?
Let's say you're having dinner with your friend at a restaurant. He smiles for a second and you can see a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. Now, you can tell him that right away. You know he may feel embarassed by that, but at least he'll take it off. If you decide not to tell him, he will exit the restaurant, see two hot chicks passing by and then he will smile at them revealing the horror of having a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. And the chicks would be like "EW!" and just go on ignoring him. And maybe, if you just told him about that piece of salad, he might have been able to score that night. You prevented your friend from scoring two hot chicks. Like... can you live with that?
... moving on.
Reviews are time consuming tasks too. Playing a game, analyzing it and then writing a grammatically correct review are things that take away a lot of your time. And we're a community that mostly consists of developers that could go on with their own projects instead of making a review for you.
I don't understand why someone should hate on a reviewer that simply did his job, providing a full analysis of what he played. I'm not saying that criticisms should be accepted by default. Reviewers tend to stay objective, but it is possible that a review may involve a lot of subjectivity. It's good to analyze the review itself and see what can be taken into consideration and what not when trying to improve as a game maker or as an artist in general.
But you should never,
never,
ever,
be a jerk to a reviewer or whoever gives their impressions to you about your game, because they dedicate THEIR time for YOUR project in a community with a lot, A LOT of other games. And you can bet your ass that there may be games among them that can eat yours for breakfast.
I mean, being a jerk to a reviewer for his review it's not so different from being a jerk to someone who spent his time making a game.
Not that someone is being a jerk to someone else here, in this particular case. I'm just... exaggerating to make a point.
When releasing a game, you should always be ready for criticism. Because they will come, even if you put a lot of effort into your game, even if it's good... they will come. And there will be any sort of criticism. Harsh one, constructive one, "Destructive" one. And I can assure you that they should be all taken into consideration.
I knew a guy that was kind of a jerk to me. He always criticized my games in order to "drive me crazy". xD I think there was some good things in my old games, but he always found faults and emphasized them.
But... he didn't made them up, they existed. He simply emphasized them. So in my next game, that I made after the one he criticized with a lot of passion, I worked in order to deliver something without those faults. Without even realizing it... I've improved. And he couldn't say a thing because those faults weren't there anymore. I mean, he eventually found other things to complain about but...
as hard as it was to accept, I improved because of that bastard.
So you know, harsh criticism, destructive ones... they can be much more useful than you can think.
Of course, I don't think everyone should be like that jerk that criticized me. I prefer constructive feedback over "I want to be a jerk gne" feedback.
One should respect the developer as much as the developer should respect his audience.
I couldn't read the review NTC3 wrote for The Tenth Line. But yeah, saying that a game feel disjointed for me it's vastly different from saying "That game is utter crap".
And I realize that... this last paragraph is the only thing in my entire post to be somehow "in-topic". S-sorry for this sort of "random thoughts".^^'
I can understand that criticisms may be hard to accept. Making a game is no easy task. It is one of the hardest and most time consuming hobby, and most of us make games on our own so... game making requires a lot of work in a lot of fields. It takes time and effort for even the smallest map. I think we game makers are like, mythological beasts or something. How the heck can we go on with this hobby and say "yeah, it's normal, I can do that and still have a life". We're not normal at all, we are a crazy bunch, aaaaah.
... Ehrm, the point being:
Bulma, it's hard to accept criticism, but they are crucial in a developer's own personal quest to become the greatest mythological game making beast of all time. I think games that are made with a certain passion and that required a lot of work are the one that should be analyzed better for criticism. Because you can see that the developer loves what he's doing and wants to be better at it and lending criticism, suggestions or whatever to him it's like helping him in trying to become a kick-ass game maker. And it's beautiful when this happens, because you can see that there's someone that knows you can do better than that, wants to invest his time giving you his impressions, and wants to help you see what can be improved, what you exactly did wrong.
Like Pianotm said, it's like the most respectful thing you can do for that developer. Instead of just passing by, saying "Yeah, yeah, you did good. Here, have a cookie".
Let's face it, though. RPG Maker is one of the most simple engine out there, even a monkey could make a game out of it. So it's only natural that you get a lot of garbage together with very good games. Yeah, I know, that's not the only engine the community takes into consideration (and I know TTL was made with Unity3D, I'm generalizing (Is it correct to say "generalizing" in this sentence? Yeah? Yeah.)), but it's the main focus. Now, I don't think that garbage games deserve to be criticized more than good ones do. Because when something is utter garbage, it's difficult to say something more elaborate then "Ehrm, you may... want to try... like, better luck next time, okay? Byeeee *Car engine sound effect*"
No, the point is: I don't see why good games should not be criticized and garbage one should.
When a game is good, and YOU KNOW the author can do better than that... why not just tell him? Why not just help him realize what he did wrong?
Let's say you're having dinner with your friend at a restaurant. He smiles for a second and you can see a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. Now, you can tell him that right away. You know he may feel embarassed by that, but at least he'll take it off. If you decide not to tell him, he will exit the restaurant, see two hot chicks passing by and then he will smile at them revealing the horror of having a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. And the chicks would be like "EW!" and just go on ignoring him. And maybe, if you just told him about that piece of salad, he might have been able to score that night. You prevented your friend from scoring two hot chicks. Like... can you live with that?
... moving on.
Reviews are time consuming tasks too. Playing a game, analyzing it and then writing a grammatically correct review are things that take away a lot of your time. And we're a community that mostly consists of developers that could go on with their own projects instead of making a review for you.
I don't understand why someone should hate on a reviewer that simply did his job, providing a full analysis of what he played. I'm not saying that criticisms should be accepted by default. Reviewers tend to stay objective, but it is possible that a review may involve a lot of subjectivity. It's good to analyze the review itself and see what can be taken into consideration and what not when trying to improve as a game maker or as an artist in general.
But you should never,
never,
ever,
be a jerk to a reviewer or whoever gives their impressions to you about your game, because they dedicate THEIR time for YOUR project in a community with a lot, A LOT of other games. And you can bet your ass that there may be games among them that can eat yours for breakfast.
I mean, being a jerk to a reviewer for his review it's not so different from being a jerk to someone who spent his time making a game.
Not that someone is being a jerk to someone else here, in this particular case. I'm just... exaggerating to make a point.
When releasing a game, you should always be ready for criticism. Because they will come, even if you put a lot of effort into your game, even if it's good... they will come. And there will be any sort of criticism. Harsh one, constructive one, "Destructive" one. And I can assure you that they should be all taken into consideration.
I knew a guy that was kind of a jerk to me. He always criticized my games in order to "drive me crazy". xD I think there was some good things in my old games, but he always found faults and emphasized them.
But... he didn't made them up, they existed. He simply emphasized them. So in my next game, that I made after the one he criticized with a lot of passion, I worked in order to deliver something without those faults. Without even realizing it... I've improved. And he couldn't say a thing because those faults weren't there anymore. I mean, he eventually found other things to complain about but...
as hard as it was to accept, I improved because of that bastard.
So you know, harsh criticism, destructive ones... they can be much more useful than you can think.
Of course, I don't think everyone should be like that jerk that criticized me. I prefer constructive feedback over "I want to be a jerk gne" feedback.
One should respect the developer as much as the developer should respect his audience.
I couldn't read the review NTC3 wrote for The Tenth Line. But yeah, saying that a game feel disjointed for me it's vastly different from saying "That game is utter crap".
And I realize that... this last paragraph is the only thing in my entire post to be somehow "in-topic". S-sorry for this sort of "random thoughts".^^'
I can definitely see the critique made, I haven't played the updated demo yet so I just had a little bit of a piece of it, and for me the enjoyment was largely around the story and atmosphere (I adore the writing) so I am good with it.
I am also good with seeing improvements to other areas of the game (I hadn't tinkered with it yet at all, so it's been more or less a blank tho I did suspect it may feel a little messy).
So I do feel confident with putting it on my wishlist, but I definitely see the points raised, so I am good (I feel it's not as impactful to me)
(not to mention I know what I am playing certain games for, being uniqueness is one reason but by now I've got enough of Molasses Meows and Space Funerals)
@Bulma
I mean I said it elsewhere, and it's fine to have your own guideline of what is worth playing or not (I find this goes beyond star ratings and why just going for 4+ stars will let me find mainly stuff I don't wanna play), but that's where the written proportion is for and the critique too.
If you allow yourself to do this you also need to allow people to have their own guideline - which may be very different. Hell, if playing a lot of weird unique "Psychodelic Assassin Squad" type of games made me do one thing, it's to appreciate solid polished games (commercial too) even if they don't excel anywhere in particular and appear "average".
A game can very flawed and thus have tons of stuff to improve on but still be worth a play in one's opinion, or it may have all kinds of things and appear dull.
Explanations are there so people can decide if the logic and the focus points apply for them, or not.
And critique (however harsh it may appear at first glance) is an important tool to polish it up and consider those points now or in future projects. Consider. They needn't be 100% true for every player, but the fact it stands out enough may warrant that attention.
That's healthy and good, and one of the good things about having reviews on places like this is that the conversation can keep going beyond it to ask in detail or also question a few things.
@OldPat
Loved reading your thoughts, all good~
I am also good with seeing improvements to other areas of the game (I hadn't tinkered with it yet at all, so it's been more or less a blank tho I did suspect it may feel a little messy).
So I do feel confident with putting it on my wishlist, but I definitely see the points raised, so I am good (I feel it's not as impactful to me)
(not to mention I know what I am playing certain games for, being uniqueness is one reason but by now I've got enough of Molasses Meows and Space Funerals)
@Bulma
I mean I said it elsewhere, and it's fine to have your own guideline of what is worth playing or not (I find this goes beyond star ratings and why just going for 4+ stars will let me find mainly stuff I don't wanna play), but that's where the written proportion is for and the critique too.
If you allow yourself to do this you also need to allow people to have their own guideline - which may be very different. Hell, if playing a lot of weird unique "Psychodelic Assassin Squad" type of games made me do one thing, it's to appreciate solid polished games (commercial too) even if they don't excel anywhere in particular and appear "average".
A game can very flawed and thus have tons of stuff to improve on but still be worth a play in one's opinion, or it may have all kinds of things and appear dull.
Explanations are there so people can decide if the logic and the focus points apply for them, or not.
And critique (however harsh it may appear at first glance) is an important tool to polish it up and consider those points now or in future projects. Consider. They needn't be 100% true for every player, but the fact it stands out enough may warrant that attention.
That's healthy and good, and one of the good things about having reviews on places like this is that the conversation can keep going beyond it to ask in detail or also question a few things.
@OldPat
Loved reading your thoughts, all good~
Reviews are helpful for consumers who want to put money down on a commercial game, because they give an indication of where the money is going. The Tenth Line is a commercial game, so such a review is justified. It will help people who dislike "disjointed" games to avoid it, if they can recognize that.
For non-commercial games, I have never acknowledged the point. Some people just want to realize their own vision, which might be horribly skewed in all kinds of directions. Reviews are not suitable for these games, which cost no money. I would even say that applying a tactic of commercialization to an uncommercial game meant to be a person's own expression of him or herself is cruel and unusual punishment. For these games, there should be the option to disable reviews, because they are completely beside the point of the game.
However, if game-making is a trade that a person wishes to pursue, reviews can offer valuable feedback on what works and what doesn't... if such a person were to ever want to create a commercial game, where consumers' money is at stake.
I see this as a business move, personally. If Deltree releases his game and Joe Schlomo goes looking for reviews, and finds that one, he might decide not to get it. Although, he still might, if he doesn't trust the review...
...I wonder how much reviews of all stripes influence sales? If a game has 80 reviews favoring and 80 reviews against, do you think the sales would still increase?
For non-commercial games, I have never acknowledged the point. Some people just want to realize their own vision, which might be horribly skewed in all kinds of directions. Reviews are not suitable for these games, which cost no money. I would even say that applying a tactic of commercialization to an uncommercial game meant to be a person's own expression of him or herself is cruel and unusual punishment. For these games, there should be the option to disable reviews, because they are completely beside the point of the game.
However, if game-making is a trade that a person wishes to pursue, reviews can offer valuable feedback on what works and what doesn't... if such a person were to ever want to create a commercial game, where consumers' money is at stake.
I see this as a business move, personally. If Deltree releases his game and Joe Schlomo goes looking for reviews, and finds that one, he might decide not to get it. Although, he still might, if he doesn't trust the review...
...I wonder how much reviews of all stripes influence sales? If a game has 80 reviews favoring and 80 reviews against, do you think the sales would still increase?
Reviews are good for non-commercial games so people know whether or not they want to play a game that seems to be something they'd like but turns out not to be worth their time. Time is a finite source - there is no way to get more once it has been spent. It is the most precious thing we have and reading a review for 2 minutes to figure out that you don't want to play a 5 hour game because it has certain aspects of gameplay/story/character/graphics/etc that you don't like is pretty invaluable.
They are also invaluable assets for people who make games so that they can see how the game was received, if it hit the mark like they tried to (sometimes you aim for a type of feeling or aspect and it can be hard to see if you get it right just by playing it yourself. Does your message reach others? How would you know if people don't tell you?), if it works and the systems work together, whether there's unexpected aspects that you need to work on that you didn't think about. Creation is about growing and moving up, it's not about sitting on your thumbs and doing the same thing over and over. Part of learning how to grow (or that you need to grow and in what way) is revealed through others' thoughts on your games, hence reviews.
They are important for all types of media, commercial or non-commercial. :/
They are also invaluable assets for people who make games so that they can see how the game was received, if it hit the mark like they tried to (sometimes you aim for a type of feeling or aspect and it can be hard to see if you get it right just by playing it yourself. Does your message reach others? How would you know if people don't tell you?), if it works and the systems work together, whether there's unexpected aspects that you need to work on that you didn't think about. Creation is about growing and moving up, it's not about sitting on your thumbs and doing the same thing over and over. Part of learning how to grow (or that you need to grow and in what way) is revealed through others' thoughts on your games, hence reviews.
They are important for all types of media, commercial or non-commercial. :/
