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UPDATE FREQUENCY: WHEN IS IT TOO MUCH OR TOO LITTLE?
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XBuster
1385
XBuster
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CloseHello RMN, I have a question to ask. A friend of mine said something to me that I believe should be considered, but there are some things blocking me from doing them. I also watched a video on Yandere Dev saying something similar.
Well, he says that it is best to release content on a regular basis to keep people interested in your project. When you go big gaps with no content revealed in between, the game is dead and people lose interest. Basically, he's saying to keep adding coal to your fire or it will burn out.
Lately, I've been going big gaps without any content in order not to spoil too much about the experience. However, I don't want my project to go from a raging fire to a dying ember
-Quote from Yoshimitsu II.
So the question is, exactly how much is good for update frequency? When is it too much, and when is it too little? Nobody wants food shoved down their throats, but they also want to be fed as well. Can someone give me some pointers?
PS-
I plan on releasing a demo of the project this week just for a proof of concept update.
Well, he says that it is best to release content on a regular basis to keep people interested in your project. When you go big gaps with no content revealed in between, the game is dead and people lose interest. Basically, he's saying to keep adding coal to your fire or it will burn out.
Lately, I've been going big gaps without any content in order not to spoil too much about the experience. However, I don't want my project to go from a raging fire to a dying ember
-Quote from Yoshimitsu II.
So the question is, exactly how much is good for update frequency? When is it too much, and when is it too little? Nobody wants food shoved down their throats, but they also want to be fed as well. Can someone give me some pointers?
PS-
I plan on releasing a demo of the project this week just for a proof of concept update.
I can't answer too much of your question, but my two cents which I think is worth considering too is that in a field like this, you don't want to make too many updates and small blocks of content. People also don't want peices added on weekly because it causes a number of people to just be like "I'll just wait for a bigger update or more content before I continue"
I feel that very few people would actually keep up with the content as you release it. Most will probably just wait until there's a significant amount. Which is why a lot of people do the "big gaps of content" That at least has been my experience and feeling towards games on this website.
As stated, I know it's not too helpful as a more definitive answer would because it basically boils down "there's a middle ground to be struck between long and short gaps"
edit: I guess though that at least releasing something semi regularly would let people know that you're actively moving forward. Which is never a bad thing. :)
I feel that very few people would actually keep up with the content as you release it. Most will probably just wait until there's a significant amount. Which is why a lot of people do the "big gaps of content" That at least has been my experience and feeling towards games on this website.
As stated, I know it's not too helpful as a more definitive answer would because it basically boils down "there's a middle ground to be struck between long and short gaps"
edit: I guess though that at least releasing something semi regularly would let people know that you're actively moving forward. Which is never a bad thing. :)
XBuster
1385
author=InfectionFiles
I can't answer too much of your question, but my two cents which I think is worth considering too is that in a field like this, you don't want to make too many updates and small blocks of content. People also don't want peices added on weekly because it causes a number of people to just be like "I'll just wait for a bigger update or more content before I continue"
I feel that very few people would actually keep up with the content as you release it. Most will probably just wait until there's a significant amount. Which is why a lot of people do the "big gaps of content" That at least has been my experience and feeling towards games on this website.
As stated, I know it's not too helpful as a more definitive answer would because it basically boils down "there's a middle ground to be struck between long and short gaps"
Exactly! I have heard a few times that people will just wait for a bigger update rather than getting every one. By updates, I didn't mean demos only but other content to keep the fire going like videos, images, blogs, and other stuff like that. You know? Giving out something that people can look forward too. The last demo I released was in September 2015, I think maybe its time to give out a new version even if its a WIP.
I like like weekly or every two weekly progress reports or monthly, whatever. for what is being worked on. Better fewer than many with nothing in it, so monthly might be okay for a lot of projects.
I really like knowing there's stuff going on behind the scenes. Theme or base ideas to explain are cool too. I LOVED the color world blog from happup, for one.
Just something that makes me appreciate what I have already seen on the gamepage and in the screenshots more.
Probably better shoot for monthly's or sth tho.
I feel it's more about HOW you present the stuff than just when.
Many times I see "this and this is done and implemented, and this is being worked on", and sure, it's good to know. But for me as a player it says nothing other than "hi guys".
Is it a fun read? Does it show me anything I didn't know before? Does it give me a view into behind the scenes and what went into designing things? Does it show off pretty comprehensive pictures or cool gifs of special stuff?
Any of that? Yes? AWESOME.
I am sure everyone who skims over the updates page will remember the "Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass" blogs. Because they are fricking hilarious. And I mean specifically the help-guy-narrated tutorials, or each and every character introduction. Other blogs haven't quite caught my attention on it, as lovely a project it is. Tho the slime gif was lovely.
Demos are demonstrations. They show what the game is shooting for, and if you would like it or not (ideally). Or just lure in people.
Adding more content to demos does nothing other than delay and chop up the experience.
I remember watching one piece as a kid on TV and they would repeat the whole thing whenever a new season or what was out. So often that at some point I just said "fuck it" and quit because I was viewing the same thing for the third or fourth time.
The only type of game where it would make sense is if there were separately playable episodes because they are designed within themselves. They are in themselves "completed", with minor arcs starting and closing even if they are part of a bigger story.
Even then it may be quite the wait.
Other than that it's not gonna get you much. Leave those for testers.
I really like knowing there's stuff going on behind the scenes. Theme or base ideas to explain are cool too. I LOVED the color world blog from happup, for one.
Just something that makes me appreciate what I have already seen on the gamepage and in the screenshots more.
Probably better shoot for monthly's or sth tho.
I feel it's more about HOW you present the stuff than just when.
Many times I see "this and this is done and implemented, and this is being worked on", and sure, it's good to know. But for me as a player it says nothing other than "hi guys".
Is it a fun read? Does it show me anything I didn't know before? Does it give me a view into behind the scenes and what went into designing things? Does it show off pretty comprehensive pictures or cool gifs of special stuff?
Any of that? Yes? AWESOME.
I am sure everyone who skims over the updates page will remember the "Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass" blogs. Because they are fricking hilarious. And I mean specifically the help-guy-narrated tutorials, or each and every character introduction. Other blogs haven't quite caught my attention on it, as lovely a project it is. Tho the slime gif was lovely.
Demos are demonstrations. They show what the game is shooting for, and if you would like it or not (ideally). Or just lure in people.
Adding more content to demos does nothing other than delay and chop up the experience.
I remember watching one piece as a kid on TV and they would repeat the whole thing whenever a new season or what was out. So often that at some point I just said "fuck it" and quit because I was viewing the same thing for the third or fourth time.
The only type of game where it would make sense is if there were separately playable episodes because they are designed within themselves. They are in themselves "completed", with minor arcs starting and closing even if they are part of a bigger story.
Even then it may be quite the wait.
Other than that it's not gonna get you much. Leave those for testers.
Oh, then I definitely think it's a great idea to just release things regularly if possible, no matter what it is. Any images, media etc is just helpful to keep people hooked. As for blogs, simple development blogs are always appreciated, just to see what you're up to. Just make sure they have some worthwhile, interesting content that could inspire discussion or even you getting in feedback on an early stage of an idea.
XBuster
1385
Good points! So in relation to creating that "Perfect demo", you're saying it should just get people interested? I remember creating another topic about deleting the past tile sets and levels because they were all spoiled in the last demo. Most are basically unplayable now anyways. However, just give people enough content to lure them in?
Ok. I'll do that. Perhaps just a few levels and characters will do. No more of that jam-packed demo stuff.
I have been trying to make blogs more interesting by adding images and stuff, but I believe you are correct when you say its HOW you present your material. Also, people keep telling me about "Game Jolt". Is that something I should look into?
Ok. I'll do that. Perhaps just a few levels and characters will do. No more of that jam-packed demo stuff.
I have been trying to make blogs more interesting by adding images and stuff, but I believe you are correct when you say its HOW you present your material. Also, people keep telling me about "Game Jolt". Is that something I should look into?
And yeah, a good demo gets you interested.
It's also why a lot of commercial demos (or bigger ones) aren't just the intro either, and sometimes even have scenes that aren't in the final game, or are later in the game. I heard stories about demo creation messing up the schedules by a lot too when yer not there overall.
You can argue with that of course, but if the intro happens to be the most boring part of the game, it's not a good idea to only see that (make the intro badass tho, really do. first impressions are so important for indies : D and hyped series do JUST that)
There are a lot of games having like a time jump or an "older" different character showcased right in the intro before jumping back. (think Dragon's Dogma)
Why? Because it allows you to show off how the game will play out later, give you a taste of hunting big monsters before you then are thrown into a country bumpkin village.
---
Ideally you have fun with the demo and feel you had a good chunk of play (like, a small storychapter or sth, basic gameplay), just enough so you know you can look forward to the finished product.
Depending on what the game focuses on it can be around all kinds of things, for fighter-based ones it might even be an elaborate sandbag-room. For example haha.
If the old demo is not representative of the coming game at all, throw it out. Or the levels. I mean that's pretty straightforward. So if you want to replace that since it all transformed, you may go for it, I see no concerns with that. But no need to give out more than a good appetizer.
Edit: As for Game Jolt. I have downloaded a few games there, but other than that. No idea. It definitely is "easier" to post in multiple places at once since you have written up your stuff anyway, than needing to put in all the writing again. But *shrug* no idea.
It's always good to look into what's out there for you I'd say, so good you are considering looking out for it.
It's also why a lot of commercial demos (or bigger ones) aren't just the intro either, and sometimes even have scenes that aren't in the final game, or are later in the game. I heard stories about demo creation messing up the schedules by a lot too when yer not there overall.
You can argue with that of course, but if the intro happens to be the most boring part of the game, it's not a good idea to only see that (make the intro badass tho, really do. first impressions are so important for indies : D and hyped series do JUST that)
There are a lot of games having like a time jump or an "older" different character showcased right in the intro before jumping back. (think Dragon's Dogma)
Why? Because it allows you to show off how the game will play out later, give you a taste of hunting big monsters before you then are thrown into a country bumpkin village.
---
Ideally you have fun with the demo and feel you had a good chunk of play (like, a small storychapter or sth, basic gameplay), just enough so you know you can look forward to the finished product.
Depending on what the game focuses on it can be around all kinds of things, for fighter-based ones it might even be an elaborate sandbag-room. For example haha.
If the old demo is not representative of the coming game at all, throw it out. Or the levels. I mean that's pretty straightforward. So if you want to replace that since it all transformed, you may go for it, I see no concerns with that. But no need to give out more than a good appetizer.
Edit: As for Game Jolt. I have downloaded a few games there, but other than that. No idea. It definitely is "easier" to post in multiple places at once since you have written up your stuff anyway, than needing to put in all the writing again. But *shrug* no idea.
It's always good to look into what's out there for you I'd say, so good you are considering looking out for it.
Nerdboy
0
Game Jolt and itch.io are perfect for fan games but be careful your using rips so they maybe taken down, nintendo took down 600 games on gamejolt awhile back. if your making a commercial game dont put it on game jolt but itch.io is good.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
I love to interact with people that follow my games, so I try to ask questions and get opinions from subs to encourage discussion in any way I can. That's why I submit a blog every month. It could be a game design blog, a general progress report, announcing new developments occurring outside the game, talking about an idea or system that hasn't been talked about before, or whatever. It lets subs know what's going on with the game, keeps myself on task to work hard enough to deliver substantial info each month, and presents more opportunities to open up dialog with subs and newcomers alike.
I try to be at least a little entertaining with my blogs to make them more fun to read. If I'm not having fun talking about the game, after all, how can I expect players to have fun playing it? Just my philosophy.
Demos, of course, should NOT follow this pattern. You're right in that continually adding more and more content is a good way to burn out players, so make sure that your demo releases are infrequent and substantial. Like you said, enough to draw players in.
I try to be at least a little entertaining with my blogs to make them more fun to read. If I'm not having fun talking about the game, after all, how can I expect players to have fun playing it? Just my philosophy.
Demos, of course, should NOT follow this pattern. You're right in that continually adding more and more content is a good way to burn out players, so make sure that your demo releases are infrequent and substantial. Like you said, enough to draw players in.
Any site you can plug your game the better in the early stages, I think. Even if you only get a handful of people from each one. There's a better chance at casting a net than a single line to catch fish!
XBuster
1385
@Nerdboy- lol. I will do the best I can to make sure everything is in order. I had a conversation with the creator in Japan and he says its fine. Besides Sonic waving his finger at the Sega logo, the only Nintendo related aspects come from some of the music. Thanks for the heads up on that.
@Red Nova Great idea. There are a few things you said that have been on my mind lately. If I don't have fun talking about the game, then how will others feel? To be honest, I never thought about it that way. Its a lot of work making a game even if it is a fan game. I can only imagine how long it would take if all the material belongs to you. Music, Artwork, etc.
I strongly believe this next demonstration will do what I want it to do. Lets just pray it does.
@Well said, people have been saying don't put all my eggs in one place. When the next demo is released, I'll try to release it on Game Jolt. Are there any other sites I should consider? As far as I know, this is one of the only sites I know about since my brother introduced me to it. Other than that, I'm clueless.
@Red Nova Great idea. There are a few things you said that have been on my mind lately. If I don't have fun talking about the game, then how will others feel? To be honest, I never thought about it that way. Its a lot of work making a game even if it is a fan game. I can only imagine how long it would take if all the material belongs to you. Music, Artwork, etc.
I strongly believe this next demonstration will do what I want it to do. Lets just pray it does.
@Well said, people have been saying don't put all my eggs in one place. When the next demo is released, I'll try to release it on Game Jolt. Are there any other sites I should consider? As far as I know, this is one of the only sites I know about since my brother introduced me to it. Other than that, I'm clueless.
Nerdboy
0
itch.io is the Main site for indie games, mostly indies who dont make it to steam, and smaller indies who do make it to steam but want to broaden their audience of players. its Ideal for fan games, better than game jolt, if you want your fan game to be taken serious. which it should. I'm a fan of Monster World, and your project is Uber cool. i luv it! =-)
XBuster
1385
author=Nerdboy
itch.io is the Main site for indie games, mostly indies who dont make it to steam, and smaller indies who do make it to steam but want to broaden their audience of players. its Ideal for fan games, better than game jolt, if you want your fan game to be taken serious. which it should. I'm a fan of Monster World, and your project is Uber cool. i luv it! =-)
Thanks for the swift reply! I'll definitely go check it out. I am currently building the demo now. Variables and other contents are getting deactivated and areas are being polished as we speak. I'm glad you like the MW series! Its been getting a lot of love the past couple of years. I hope you will enjoy the demo when it is released.
Nerdboy
0
you should also list your game on indiedb, a database of indie games. its the main site for reaching out to the indie community.
XBuster
1385
author=Nerdboy
you should also list your game on indiedb, a database of indie games. its the main site for reaching out to the indie community.
Good catch! I'm working on it as we speak. This is a huge help. I've been really indecisive on branching out, but I think this may be the week I finally do. Thanks again!
RyaReisender
200
Thinking of game dev blogs in general, I must say that weekly is a good frequency. Higher frequency usually makes me go "Dude, I don't want to read and know this much!" and also drops the quality of the content, significantly lower frequency usually makes me stop checking the blog at all.
I don't really think it's too important for RMN games. They don't build up enough hype in the first place. And also you can only really give interesting weekly updates if you are actively working on the project full time.
I don't really think it's too important for RMN games. They don't build up enough hype in the first place. And also you can only really give interesting weekly updates if you are actively working on the project full time.
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