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GREETINGS! ADVICE ON ENGINE SELECTION . . .
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Hubble128
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CloseHello!
I have been a gamer since the era of Infocom and recently switched careers from filmmaking to teaching. I have a new job as a technology teacher for middle school (11-12 year olds) and have been gradually putting some game development into the curriculum.
This, plus getting my old Apple II out of storage, got me remembering some of the old RPGs from the late 80's that I loved so much such as Wasteland, Bard's Tale, Deathlord, and the early Ultima and Wizardry games.
Just for nostalgia and for fun in my spare time, I'd like to create a game that looks and feels like the top-down RPGs from that era, and I could use some advice in selecting an engine. Here are my parameters:
1) It does not need to be free, but a $600 IDE would be more than I would want to spend.
2) I am not a programmer by trade, but I have done some limited programming in the past. I can work with scripts just fine, but do not know C. My focus for this hobbyist's project would be on art, music and story - I don't think I want to use this project to learn to be a C programmer.
3) I am going after a specific aesthetic like I described above: 1980's Apple II games. Wasteland would be my ideal model. So the 1990s JRPG console style of RPG is not something I want. Not passing judgement on that type of game at all - it's just not the style I want for this project.
Regarding #3: RPG Maker is obviously very popular and has a large community that could be a good resource for a beginner. But is the console-style JRPG "look" baked into anything that RPG Maker would create? Or could you create your own look by making new sprites, backgrounds, maps, etc? Would that be more trouble than it's worth, and is there adifferent engine that might get close to the look and feel that I want?
Many thanks in advance for any advice!
Regards,
Hubble
I have been a gamer since the era of Infocom and recently switched careers from filmmaking to teaching. I have a new job as a technology teacher for middle school (11-12 year olds) and have been gradually putting some game development into the curriculum.
This, plus getting my old Apple II out of storage, got me remembering some of the old RPGs from the late 80's that I loved so much such as Wasteland, Bard's Tale, Deathlord, and the early Ultima and Wizardry games.
Just for nostalgia and for fun in my spare time, I'd like to create a game that looks and feels like the top-down RPGs from that era, and I could use some advice in selecting an engine. Here are my parameters:
1) It does not need to be free, but a $600 IDE would be more than I would want to spend.
2) I am not a programmer by trade, but I have done some limited programming in the past. I can work with scripts just fine, but do not know C. My focus for this hobbyist's project would be on art, music and story - I don't think I want to use this project to learn to be a C programmer.
3) I am going after a specific aesthetic like I described above: 1980's Apple II games. Wasteland would be my ideal model. So the 1990s JRPG console style of RPG is not something I want. Not passing judgement on that type of game at all - it's just not the style I want for this project.
Regarding #3: RPG Maker is obviously very popular and has a large community that could be a good resource for a beginner. But is the console-style JRPG "look" baked into anything that RPG Maker would create? Or could you create your own look by making new sprites, backgrounds, maps, etc? Would that be more trouble than it's worth, and is there adifferent engine that might get close to the look and feel that I want?
Many thanks in advance for any advice!
Regards,
Hubble
Welcome! Enjoy the site and what we have to offer.
Have a look at some of the oldschool games around the joint. A lot of them were made using RM engines, but some weren't.
I recommend checking out our Engines page which has information on different engines out there as well as games made with them that are on the site (for examples of what they can do) and the like.
Have a look at some of the oldschool games around the joint. A lot of them were made using RM engines, but some weren't.
I recommend checking out our Engines page which has information on different engines out there as well as games made with them that are on the site (for examples of what they can do) and the like.
I looked at Wasteland and I think you could make a similar game using RPG Maker. For your style you would need to import graphics. And with your scripting knowledge you could probably customize it a bit too. I think most people are going to recommend RPG Maker on this website :)
Based on scripting:
RPG Maker VX Ace if you want to script in Ruby
RPG Maker MV if you want to script in Javascript
Both of these engines have their pluses and minuses, but they are really your 2 top choices to go with.
I would say if you're okay with making a Visual Novel and want to script in Python you could try Ren'Py, which is 100% free.
The thing in the back of my head about the original Wasteland (Darigaaz, I am feel old admitting that I played this) is how it displayed enemy graphics. The way I recall it, there was a window which displayed a graphic of an enemy. I'm not sure if the graphic displayed was always the enemy in the first slot/group or not, but, that graphic was animated. I only vaguely recall a thread (or blog?) about animated battlers for TsuK3 using Dyn plug-ins, though. It may be possible in the later engines via scripts (XP/VX/Ace) or plug-ins (MV), but, I'm afraid I have no idea.
Anyway, welcome to RMN! Share your creativity with us!
Anyway, welcome to RMN! Share your creativity with us!
Thank you all for the warm welcome and advice!
Wasteland was recently re-released on Steam, and the trailer gives a good idea of the aesthetic that I would be trying to follow:
Wasteland Classic game trailer
The portraits showed the enemy that was closest to you tactically during combat. They were very slightly animated, but that would not be the most important feature for me. My main concern would be to have the flatter, less-3D, non-anime look to the interface and maps that puts the game firmly in the time and place it was made. If I can import graphics into RPG Maker, then I think I can accomplish that.
Beyond that, what made Wasteland unique was the unusual skills (like "Toaster Repair" - which WAS used in the game!) and the inclusion of adventure-game style puzzles into the RPG system. As long as RPG Maker allows you to customize skills and attributes, then the rest would just be a matter of good writing and hard work, I think.
The other engine I was eyeing was OHR, but the all-keyboard interface is a little less appealing than RPG Maker. Ren'Py is a nice suggestion, but visual novel is not really the direction I want to go in for this project. I will take your advice and look through the engines page, plus check out some of the work people have done - the tag system for the community-made games will be super helpful - thank you for pointing that out.
One last question: RPG Maker MV is currently on sale on Steam for $20, so it is cheaper than VX/VX Ace. I'm wondering if I should grab it. Aside from the choice between Javascript and Ruby, is there a concise list of pros/cons to these two versions of RPGM that is at least a little more in-depth than the comparison on Wikipedia?
Again, many thanks!
Wasteland was recently re-released on Steam, and the trailer gives a good idea of the aesthetic that I would be trying to follow:
Wasteland Classic game trailer
The portraits showed the enemy that was closest to you tactically during combat. They were very slightly animated, but that would not be the most important feature for me. My main concern would be to have the flatter, less-3D, non-anime look to the interface and maps that puts the game firmly in the time and place it was made. If I can import graphics into RPG Maker, then I think I can accomplish that.
Beyond that, what made Wasteland unique was the unusual skills (like "Toaster Repair" - which WAS used in the game!) and the inclusion of adventure-game style puzzles into the RPG system. As long as RPG Maker allows you to customize skills and attributes, then the rest would just be a matter of good writing and hard work, I think.
The other engine I was eyeing was OHR, but the all-keyboard interface is a little less appealing than RPG Maker. Ren'Py is a nice suggestion, but visual novel is not really the direction I want to go in for this project. I will take your advice and look through the engines page, plus check out some of the work people have done - the tag system for the community-made games will be super helpful - thank you for pointing that out.
One last question: RPG Maker MV is currently on sale on Steam for $20, so it is cheaper than VX/VX Ace. I'm wondering if I should grab it. Aside from the choice between Javascript and Ruby, is there a concise list of pros/cons to these two versions of RPGM that is at least a little more in-depth than the comparison on Wikipedia?
Again, many thanks!
Steam currently has RPG Maker MV trial for 1 day and 5 hours. So you can try it out right now. When Ace is on sale its very very cheap.
MV is newer, has built in mouse support, higher resolution, can export to Mac and other devices besides Windows. The downside is that some people experience lag with the program or games made with it. But you can try it out for free right now, so...
VX Ace has a lot of script support and performs better. But it can only export to Windows. I personally prefer Ace over MV, but I have used it for a long time...
I don't recommend XP / VX / 2000 / 2003 as these engines are older. Some have little support or are more archaic to use. Ace and MV are very user friendly and have tons of support.
If you're going for a more oldschool appeal 2k/3 might be worth checking out even if they are a bit dated and don't have scripting options (they use in-engine eventing instead, like the other RPG Maker engines, so if you try out MV you'll get to see how the eventing side works).
For the record, there's also Ace Lite which is a trial version of Ace. It's available on steam so you can compare MV and Ace and see which you like better. Ace Lite has restrictions when it comes to scripting, though, but you can get a better feel for the engine and eventing and see what you can do with it.
The reason I recommend 2000 or 2003 (2k/3), is because they deal with 256-bit colour schemes and 16x16 tiles like old-school games. Ace has 32x32 pixel tiles and MV uses 48x48.
All of the engines mentioned can use images for visuals allowing 100 shown at once, and eventing, with the use of variables and switches, can be very good when it comes to creating your own custom menus and whatnot, outside of actual scripting (though as kory mentioned, Ace and MV have a decent library of scripts already available).
Really, it's mostly about which engine you like better, but there are also free engines in that list I linked to in my post, which may be better suited to what you're after.
Lastly, yes, you can add your own skills and attributes, as well as input your own graphics into any of the RM engines. Looking at the trailer, there's no reason you can't create a Wasteland-esque game with any of the RM series - even those that don't have scripting. It's just a matter of learning how to use the various aspects of the engines in question, so try them out and see which suits you best.
For the record, there's also Ace Lite which is a trial version of Ace. It's available on steam so you can compare MV and Ace and see which you like better. Ace Lite has restrictions when it comes to scripting, though, but you can get a better feel for the engine and eventing and see what you can do with it.
The reason I recommend 2000 or 2003 (2k/3), is because they deal with 256-bit colour schemes and 16x16 tiles like old-school games. Ace has 32x32 pixel tiles and MV uses 48x48.
All of the engines mentioned can use images for visuals allowing 100 shown at once, and eventing, with the use of variables and switches, can be very good when it comes to creating your own custom menus and whatnot, outside of actual scripting (though as kory mentioned, Ace and MV have a decent library of scripts already available).
Really, it's mostly about which engine you like better, but there are also free engines in that list I linked to in my post, which may be better suited to what you're after.
Lastly, yes, you can add your own skills and attributes, as well as input your own graphics into any of the RM engines. Looking at the trailer, there's no reason you can't create a Wasteland-esque game with any of the RM series - even those that don't have scripting. It's just a matter of learning how to use the various aspects of the engines in question, so try them out and see which suits you best.
Toaster Repair was certainly one of the oddest skills to include. I don't remember it having too many applications, though? Like, I think they were mostly in Quartz or Needles, and then never seen again? My memory might be a bit faulty on that. I found it somewhat amusing they included it in Wasteland 2. I never got terribly far into that game, though, so, I cannot comment further on that point.
IIRC, you could find several broken toasters scattered around the game world, and equip them as melee weapons. If you had the Toaster Repair skill, there were special repair tables in a few locations where you could convert it to a working toaster and then "unjam" a special item from inside the toaster, usually a security pass for an advanced level of the game or ammo for an energy weapon. So it was never required, but could get you past a high level door. That was part of the charm of the game for me - some many little things like that that weren't necessary to win, but added a lot of flavor.
Thank you all again for the help and advice. I'll try some of these options out and hopefully have something to show someday soon. Nice to know there's such a friendly community here!
Regards,
Hubble
Thank you all again for the help and advice. I'll try some of these options out and hopefully have something to show someday soon. Nice to know there's such a friendly community here!
Regards,
Hubble
One more thing to consider though, is that there are fewer people using rm2k/3 now, so it'll be harder to get help or answers if you get stuck with something. It's easy to use, but it's not always THAT easy or intuitive...
If it were me, I'd say the most objective choice is to go with MV, even though I haven't used it myself. Since it's the newest engine, it will give you the most support and options to easily create your game. However, it would also mean you need to do a lot of manual work to find and edit the type of graphics you wanted.
If it were me, I'd say the most objective choice is to go with MV, even though I haven't used it myself. Since it's the newest engine, it will give you the most support and options to easily create your game. However, it would also mean you need to do a lot of manual work to find and edit the type of graphics you wanted.
Ace actually probably has the most support and user base and is pretty new user friendly.
XP is cool too if you want to use default RTP resources!
XP is cool too if you want to use default RTP resources!
author=Dyluck
One more thing to consider though, is that there are fewer people using rm2k/3 now, so it'll be harder to get help or answers if you get stuck with something. It's easy to use, but it's not always THAT easy or intuitive...
If it were me, I'd say the most objective choice is to go with MV, even though I haven't used it myself. Since it's the newest engine, it will give you the most support and options to easily create your game. However, it would also mean you need to do a lot of manual work to find and edit the type of graphics you wanted.
Currently RPG Maker VX Ace is the most popular. MV is gaining on it though, I'm not sure it will surpass it though. A lot of VX Ace users, like myself, don't personally like MV for various reasons. I think someone on RMN said that MV is not a step forward, but a step sideways. That's a good way of looking at the newest engine.
There's some hardcore RPG Maker 2003 fans out there, but I highly recommend not using it as your first RPG Maker experience.
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