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[MAFIA] PRISONER'S DILEMMA. GAME OVER
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Liberty
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uh wow there was a ridiculous amount of posting while i was asleep. also the exact thing i was really worried about happening due to trying to lynch day one did happen if psy's telling the truth. definitely still believe this was a terrible idea now, especially if it just happens again with the next person we all jump on, we'll end up going down the list and just outting all the PRs when people try to save themselves. i still think shinan rather than anyone else is a better idea to lynch but since that idea doesn't have much merit there's no use.
#cancel
#cancel
Fomar0153
16396
Four pages in one night. I've skimmed quickly but will read it all properly later, when I have more time. For now though:
#Cancel
#Cancel
PlatinumAshes
I am now certain that you are not scum and are just town trying to play scum as hard as possible.
0
I haven't finished reading up yet, but I've got the gist of it. Maybe I'm missing something in this post that was already clarified.
What I want to know, is how exactly psy's ability works. Does it tell you the difference between vanilla townie and vanilla goon?
If it does, then I think we should keep him alive for 2 more nights to confirm people.
But if his role doesn't tell the difference, then it's almost useless for us. Maybe he can identify the town PRs, but even then, how can we know for sure these are town PRs and not actually scum PRs?
Even if PSY investigates someone and finds that they have a PR tonight, and even if their role makes it obvious that they are town, how does this help us in any way? He cannot just post it here, since that would out them.
My conclusion is that, even if psy is town, we are gaining more information by lynchimg him than his role would have given us (unless his role can see the difference between townies and scum).
Now, the case against psy hasn't gotten any weaker. If he's scum, we can expect him to claim 100% of the time. It's almost impossible to verify his claim and it provides him with a lot of protection.
Even if he is a rolecop, he could still be scum. Rolecop (in my opinion) makes more sense as a scum role. Or perhaps one of his scum teammates had that role, and they are planning to pass that information to psy to verify him.
If he really is a town rolecop, then why would he claim in the way that he did? It was looking as if town would let him off anyway, so his claim badly timed, and it made it seem as if he actually wanted to claim.
The only possibility that we can rule out, is that PSY is vanilla town, in which case he would not have claimed. And his behavior would be strange, given that he is a town Rolecop.
Both of tese facts increase the odds of him being scum.
What I want to know, is how exactly psy's ability works. Does it tell you the difference between vanilla townie and vanilla goon?
If it does, then I think we should keep him alive for 2 more nights to confirm people.
But if his role doesn't tell the difference, then it's almost useless for us. Maybe he can identify the town PRs, but even then, how can we know for sure these are town PRs and not actually scum PRs?
Even if PSY investigates someone and finds that they have a PR tonight, and even if their role makes it obvious that they are town, how does this help us in any way? He cannot just post it here, since that would out them.
My conclusion is that, even if psy is town, we are gaining more information by lynchimg him than his role would have given us (unless his role can see the difference between townies and scum).
Now, the case against psy hasn't gotten any weaker. If he's scum, we can expect him to claim 100% of the time. It's almost impossible to verify his claim and it provides him with a lot of protection.
Even if he is a rolecop, he could still be scum. Rolecop (in my opinion) makes more sense as a scum role. Or perhaps one of his scum teammates had that role, and they are planning to pass that information to psy to verify him.
If he really is a town rolecop, then why would he claim in the way that he did? It was looking as if town would let him off anyway, so his claim badly timed, and it made it seem as if he actually wanted to claim.
The only possibility that we can rule out, is that PSY is vanilla town, in which case he would not have claimed. And his behavior would be strange, given that he is a town Rolecop.
Both of tese facts increase the odds of him being scum.
What you say does make a lot of sense, but he did role-call after Tales cancelled the second-to-last vote on him. He was still up to 5, I had threatened a hammer (though I didn't realise tale had cancelled when I did so) and all it would have taken is one more and a hammer would have occurred, so I could see why someone would claim. He also said he miscounted and thought I'd voted for him (though I was preparing to hammer him by letting my vote on piano go) and that he'd gotten confused.
Which, yeah, does come off a bit like a fumbling scum trying to double-talk his way back from the edge, but if he is a role-cop it might be interesting to see if he can garner any information (and I'm sure there are other roles that can be used to keep him alive overnight to see what he reports on the next day if need be.) Of course, if it works like I think it does, he probably just gets a role confirmation and not alignment, though only he and Cave would know that for sure.
In other news, while I will probably be out of it much this weekend I should be able to phone post, though don't expect long-ass arguments. If I have a problem doing so, though, there will likely be someone taking over for me. Just so you lot know before shit comes up and all.
Which, yeah, does come off a bit like a fumbling scum trying to double-talk his way back from the edge, but if he is a role-cop it might be interesting to see if he can garner any information (and I'm sure there are other roles that can be used to keep him alive overnight to see what he reports on the next day if need be.) Of course, if it works like I think it does, he probably just gets a role confirmation and not alignment, though only he and Cave would know that for sure.
In other news, while I will probably be out of it much this weekend I should be able to phone post, though don't expect long-ass arguments. If I have a problem doing so, though, there will likely be someone taking over for me. Just so you lot know before shit comes up and all.
Being a role cop. I don't know how it is in other games, but in the last game I played that CAVE ran, being a role cop made you far less of a threat to scum than being an alignment cop. CAVE may be unpredictable, but he knows how to balance roles. It's a bit like the scene in Untouchables where Ness meets Malone. Of all the things you could lie about, why would you say you're that? If I'd have been a bit more attentive, I'd have kept my vote on him, but when I saw "cop", I defaulted to "cancel". Either way, the problem he describes, being somewhere where he doesn't have internet access, Libby wasn't in the Avalon game, but PA, you were.
Psy had that problem there. It wasn't a scum play. He was really somewhere without internet access. He had to walk four hours each day to check his mail and that's when he'd post. That absolutely fits with what we're seeing here. He's posting once a day, posting as much as he can, but often not making sense or his posts just not being sufficient to explain himself and then we have to wait a whole day to hear from him again. I still think he's scum, but given the situation, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I feel like if he was faking this, it would take a lot of discipline for him to just stay away from the thread for that long.
What continues to annoy me about psy is that "gotcha" moment he tried to go for with my jab about mislynching PA. It really struck me as scum trying to go for low-hanging fruit. Psy should know better than that. The mislynch jibe is pretty common in Mafia games on this site.
Psy had that problem there. It wasn't a scum play. He was really somewhere without internet access. He had to walk four hours each day to check his mail and that's when he'd post. That absolutely fits with what we're seeing here. He's posting once a day, posting as much as he can, but often not making sense or his posts just not being sufficient to explain himself and then we have to wait a whole day to hear from him again. I still think he's scum, but given the situation, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I feel like if he was faking this, it would take a lot of discipline for him to just stay away from the thread for that long.
What continues to annoy me about psy is that "gotcha" moment he tried to go for with my jab about mislynching PA. It really struck me as scum trying to go for low-hanging fruit. Psy should know better than that. The mislynch jibe is pretty common in Mafia games on this site.
Doesn't help that it's first day so the only thing to jump on is each others' comments, no matter how innocuous they may or may not be. With a night under our belts we'll have more information to bounce with and it'll help give better reads. All we have to decide today is whether to lynch or not and who.
I'm all for lynching to cut to the chase so I get to spend more time in the game (supposing I don't get killed during the night or lynched, of course). As such, I want to get on a wagon and ride it to day's end, but I'm also hesitant to get rid of a resource that might prove useful - either in him proving himself a lying liar who lies or actually throwing down with some information tomorrow. Even if scum kill him tonight (supposing there's no protective role) that'd at least give us some actual hard information that isn't just 'she seems scummy' or 'he said something weird for him!!!!'.
So, uh, what I'm saying is that I'd like to see some death and destruction, I guess? Preferably not mine, of course. Who hasn't talked much lately? Maybe we need to send a message that not-talking is bad play.
odd pings in time to time but not a lot. Usuallly just drops his thoughts on the crowd. He could afford to say a bit more, I guess.
psy has been active where possible and if he is away from internet, that's fair and fine.
PA seems to just drop crap when he chimes in bar once or twice, but he could afford to talk serious more (even if I want to change his avatar).
Ivory does what odd does - chimes in but remains fairly quiet. Has made pertinent points though - trying to be useful at least.
demonlord is also rather quiet and doesn't say much. He keeps giving off a newbie vibe for some reason, even though I know he's not. talk more, dude.
piano posts about as much as I do.
Emily posts enough that I notice she's around.
Ozzy... ozzy could do to post more. He's been pretty quiet which is odd for him.
tale drops in from time to time but probably could afford to talk a bit more, but at least they're playing.
kittenfood has no reason not to post more now that their account has been unlocked. post more kitten!
shinan could definitely afford to post more too. He hasn't said much at all and has been quietly coasting under the radar.
I have talked when awake. Does that help?
Fomar could also post more..
I'm all for lynching to cut to the chase so I get to spend more time in the game (supposing I don't get killed during the night or lynched, of course). As such, I want to get on a wagon and ride it to day's end, but I'm also hesitant to get rid of a resource that might prove useful - either in him proving himself a lying liar who lies or actually throwing down with some information tomorrow. Even if scum kill him tonight (supposing there's no protective role) that'd at least give us some actual hard information that isn't just 'she seems scummy' or 'he said something weird for him!!!!'.
So, uh, what I'm saying is that I'd like to see some death and destruction, I guess? Preferably not mine, of course. Who hasn't talked much lately? Maybe we need to send a message that not-talking is bad play.
odd pings in time to time but not a lot. Usuallly just drops his thoughts on the crowd. He could afford to say a bit more, I guess.
psy has been active where possible and if he is away from internet, that's fair and fine.
PA seems to just drop crap when he chimes in bar once or twice, but he could afford to talk serious more (even if I want to change his avatar).
Ivory does what odd does - chimes in but remains fairly quiet. Has made pertinent points though - trying to be useful at least.
demonlord is also rather quiet and doesn't say much. He keeps giving off a newbie vibe for some reason, even though I know he's not. talk more, dude.
piano posts about as much as I do.
Emily posts enough that I notice she's around.
Ozzy... ozzy could do to post more. He's been pretty quiet which is odd for him.
tale drops in from time to time but probably could afford to talk a bit more, but at least they're playing.
kittenfood has no reason not to post more now that their account has been unlocked. post more kitten!
shinan could definitely afford to post more too. He hasn't said much at all and has been quietly coasting under the radar.
I have talked when awake. Does that help?
Fomar could also post more..
Fomar: 23 posts, some of them being analytical.
psy: 22 posts
Shinan: 5 posts
odd: 12 posts, but he was away for about a day
kitten: 12 posts but had to deal with site limitations for newbs
ivory: 19 posts
PA: 28 posts but a lot of it is messing about
demonlord: 26 posts
emily: 22 posts
piano: 50 (lol)
ozzy: 26 posts (really? seemed like a lot less o.O )
tale: 15 posts
liberty: 30 posts
Looks like piano and I are the life of the party. Ya'll need to learn how to chat up, yo.
That said, based on postings:
#cancel
#lynch Shinan
Start talkin' bub.
psy: 22 posts
Shinan: 5 posts
odd: 12 posts, but he was away for about a day
kitten: 12 posts but had to deal with site limitations for newbs
ivory: 19 posts
PA: 28 posts but a lot of it is messing about
demonlord: 26 posts
emily: 22 posts
piano: 50 (lol)
ozzy: 26 posts (really? seemed like a lot less o.O )
tale: 15 posts
liberty: 30 posts
Looks like piano and I are the life of the party. Ya'll need to learn how to chat up, yo.
That said, based on postings:
#cancel
#lynch Shinan
Start talkin' bub.
yes, i did just count all the posts made in this thread by each person after day started. i had time
i would like to post more but i've already said before i really don't wanna lynch 'cause i think it's a real dumb idea even though piano explained why we are. since we're going to lynch anyway, i still proposed shinan, but no one really genuinely agreed with that at all, so it was kind've just ignored by even shinan himself so i just dropped it. otherwise the reads people keep making on each other make absolutely no sense to me and are just baseless and dumb and everyone backpedals or makes an excuse a few hours later so i can't even go along with those reads! i have nothing to talk about. so i'm just at a loss with literally nothing to say and i'm not going to pretend i have anything to say, unless that'd be better? i too, would love for someone to just get lynched already so we can get to actual substantial things next day. i just want THIS day to end already so i can play the game!
so
#lynch Shinan
so
#lynch Shinan
Fomar0153
16396
author=Liberty
Fomar: 23 posts, some of them being analytical.
If only welp counted, I would have doubled (tripled?) my annual post count!
I can get behind lynching Shinan, with five posts it's really easy to forget he's even here, which feels like it could potentially be a good way for scum to hide.
demonlord5000
680
I'd say 26 posts isn't all that low for a day 1. It's around where most of us who are active are at. That said, I'm all for the shinan vote because I complained about him non-talking before. Strangely, I thought he was at 3 posts rather than 5...did I miss one somewhere? I'll need to go back and look. Still lynching though because that's not much difference from where I thought he was.
#lynch shinan
#lynch shinan
I can hammer if you all want. Obviously I'm not going to do it yet in case Shinan suddenly pops up and wants to say something.
demonlord5000
680
Current list for me.
Exemptions: New players. All of them have come off suspicious in one way or another, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm against lynching new players day 1. This will change day 2 and onwards because we will have some actual facts to go on at that point. All of them are on my watch list though.
Psy: Comes off as the scummiest player here with how weird some of his information has been. Could be because of the reasons piano gave, but he's still my top pick. Since he claimed, it can't hurt to wait and see if his role will be useful, but we will probably end up trying to lynch him later on.
Piano: For awhile it was a toss-up for me between psy and piano. Piano has been playing fairly aggressive this game and been off and on a few people now, but they have been fairly consistent. Right now I'm unsure, but I don't think a piano/psy team exists. Psy is my preferred vote, but I could be convinced to vote piano.
Odd: Null tell for me. He tends to be a more quiet player and hasn't really said enough for me to get a real feel of.
Libby: As a fellow defender of the new players, I want to say I have a town-ish vibe here. I also haven't played with libby in forever though so this current posting style doesn't give me anything.
Shinan: Has not said anything of value and barely has any posts. As is they are helping scum than town. Extremely lynch-able for this reason.
Emily: Comes off as the same as the last game. Reads town to me.
Ozzy: Some seem to think hes a bit sketchy, but to me hes coming off as he did in the other games. He was sketchy in those games too and flipped town, so I'd rather not vote for him until we have more to go on.
PA: PA has been weird. His last post was worthwhile content, while a lot of it was messing around. More posts come off scummy than town, but I could chalk that up to his scheming playstyle being vastly different from my own. A lot of it could simply be because it's day 1 and there's not much to go in yet. He's lynchable for me, but I could change my mind in later day phases.
Ivory: Comes off as town to me. Not quite as many posts as some of us, but the ones that are there come off as helpful town.
Exemptions: New players. All of them have come off suspicious in one way or another, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm against lynching new players day 1. This will change day 2 and onwards because we will have some actual facts to go on at that point. All of them are on my watch list though.
Psy: Comes off as the scummiest player here with how weird some of his information has been. Could be because of the reasons piano gave, but he's still my top pick. Since he claimed, it can't hurt to wait and see if his role will be useful, but we will probably end up trying to lynch him later on.
Piano: For awhile it was a toss-up for me between psy and piano. Piano has been playing fairly aggressive this game and been off and on a few people now, but they have been fairly consistent. Right now I'm unsure, but I don't think a piano/psy team exists. Psy is my preferred vote, but I could be convinced to vote piano.
Odd: Null tell for me. He tends to be a more quiet player and hasn't really said enough for me to get a real feel of.
Libby: As a fellow defender of the new players, I want to say I have a town-ish vibe here. I also haven't played with libby in forever though so this current posting style doesn't give me anything.
Shinan: Has not said anything of value and barely has any posts. As is they are helping scum than town. Extremely lynch-able for this reason.
Emily: Comes off as the same as the last game. Reads town to me.
Ozzy: Some seem to think hes a bit sketchy, but to me hes coming off as he did in the other games. He was sketchy in those games too and flipped town, so I'd rather not vote for him until we have more to go on.
PA: PA has been weird. His last post was worthwhile content, while a lot of it was messing around. More posts come off scummy than town, but I could chalk that up to his scheming playstyle being vastly different from my own. A lot of it could simply be because it's day 1 and there's not much to go in yet. He's lynchable for me, but I could change my mind in later day phases.
Ivory: Comes off as town to me. Not quite as many posts as some of us, but the ones that are there come off as helpful town.
Yep Shinan only has 6 votes, which means it's up to whoever is active to hammer him. Also Libby, I wasn't silent, I tried to be quite active yesterday >:V
I am starting to feel a little better about Piano, his reasoning for him getting lynched and that it would give info to town is still too defeatist for my taste, but is definetely leaning towards town wanting to help post-mortem.
I had been thinking the same that PA said about Psy's role not being that helpful to town. I just hadn't come around to saying it.
@Kittenfood I agree, first days on these forum mafia are absolute nonsense, unless someone very clearly reveals they are scum, any vote can be anything. Day 2 is usually where stuff starts to get real interesting as we can start analyzing day 1 interactions more closely.
I am starting to feel a little better about Piano, his reasoning for him getting lynched and that it would give info to town is still too defeatist for my taste, but is definetely leaning towards town wanting to help post-mortem.
I had been thinking the same that PA said about Psy's role not being that helpful to town. I just hadn't come around to saying it.
@Kittenfood I agree, first days on these forum mafia are absolute nonsense, unless someone very clearly reveals they are scum, any vote can be anything. Day 2 is usually where stuff starts to get real interesting as we can start analyzing day 1 interactions more closely.
When it comes to Liberty and Piano, I'm 100% certain there's at least 1 scum player in there. Libby is very aggresive and very gungho on getting Piano which Piano constantly complains about, even though he was very gungho against Psy at the start. Then again, Libby has been flaming him for stuff he hasn't said which leads me to believe she's flaming him for the sake of flaming him. And the only reason she would be doing that is if both agreed to doing so.
There's a high chance that both are scum and are just flaming each other to make sure that if one of them gets lynched, the other one is more distant of the other. It's a simple tactic but it works.
My main scum suspects are Libery, Piano and Psy_Wombats.
Secondary suspects are PlatinumAshes and Fomar.
Most other people read neutral to me.
Ivory and Kitten read town to me.
There's a high chance that both are scum and are just flaming each other to make sure that if one of them gets lynched, the other one is more distant of the other. It's a simple tactic but it works.
My main scum suspects are Libery, Piano and Psy_Wombats.
Secondary suspects are PlatinumAshes and Fomar.
Most other people read neutral to me.
Ivory and Kitten read town to me.
