LET'S DISCUSS: GENDER EQUALITY, IN GAMING AND IN LIFE

I am also not so good with the reflexes. Not only do I suck butts at reflex-oriented videogames, but I'm also (plz don't laugh) a LARPer with the worst combat paralysis imaginable. If anything sudden happens and I'm supposed to perform instantly, I freeze up, probably for the reasons that Feld listed (I think too goddamn much :P).

On the other hand, I'm a fairly good driver, and I managed to reduce the severity of an accident when someone turned out in front of me (he did not stop at his stop sign and I didn't have one) by acting quickly. I wasn't always a good driver, though, but I guess the necessity of acting fast in an automobile sort of forced me to get better.

Not only am I rubbish at reaction-based games, but I'm also fairly bad at being observant. I can barely find anything I need to; in Oblivion, for example, I have the roughest time.

But I'd like to say I'm alright at puzzles. Sometimes I can figure things out pretty fast. Also, unrelatedly, I'm really really good at DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball (don't ask).

Here's my take on that thar advert, though: The marketing execs are not dumb. They do not believe that girls only play KITTIEZ and LET'S BE A SUPERSTAR OMIGOSH U GUYZ!!1 But they know that girls like you and I were, Suzu, the little nerds who hung around in basements and got every system when it came out... they know we're already sold.

They are not trying to get "us." They are trying to get "them."

Why advertise to someone who's already buying from you? The kind of girls pictured there DON'T play games, and what they're saying is "if you like cheerleading and playing barbie, you'll love our games!" because they want to expand their audience.

It's like how they released Mary Jane Adventures to catch the girly-girls, when all the real comic book readers had been buying Spiderman for ages.

This is a good topic. I LIKE IT VERY MUCH.

It was said somewhere. But it's all about casual gamers. The ad in question isn't directed at gamers. It's directed at that huge majority which are "girly girls". And yes, they DO exist.

It's the same where they target a bunch of games (like Need for Speed or Madden) mainly for boys. The casual boy audience that is. The boys that think it's cool with American Football or fast cars.


The only real problem I see is the lacking quality in some of the "targeted" games. Kid's games suffer from the same problem. They make a subpar game that the nongamer audience will play, because they don't know better.

To be honest what kind of semi-gamer girl wouldn't play a good Sex and the City game? It's a sad fact that most games targeted at girls suck so badly (Except perhaps the Sims, though you could argue it isn't exactly targeted you're not kidding anyone.).

Do those girls up in that picture even LOOK like the girls you do find playing games anyway?

Yes, they look exactly like the girls that would play the games advertised.



Alright. So personal experience and all that crap. I have two younger sisters. They game. They aren't huge gaming nerds but being around me rubs off onto anyone. My older sister plays a fair amount of games. She still tends to shy away from the "overly guy" games and jumps with glee at any release of the Sims or Harvest Moon. She has a pink DS. Of course she also plays the games that essentially are for everyone. And she always beats me in Track & Field in Barcelona for the NES. She's strangely awesome at that.

The younger of the two sisters is still sort of young and I don't know exactly what she plays. But she does have a lot of Pony and Horse-themed games. She's no stranger to kicking butt in sucky games based on stuff she likes (I'm referring to Eragon). And obviously she loves the Sims. And Runescape, for some strange reason I cannot fathom (but that's one of the other girly gamer things. They seem to be drawn to MMOs)

Of course these are only two examples but they fit pretty nicely into the "girly gamer" stereotype.



So this was a long post essentially saying that the difference between hardcore and casual is a lot larger than the whole gender thing. (Hardcore gamers of any kind play the things they like/are good. Casual gamers of any kind play the games they are offered)

author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2520.msg46235#msg46235 date=1227286306
No, it's not solidly gender based, but if gender has anything to do with it, I can almost guarantee that my 'theory' is almost partially correct. I've never done any sort of conclusive experiment on it, but it's something I've noticed with almost every girl I've ever seen play a platformer.

Of course, this is not a bad thing! Usually it turns out that girls are better at RPGs.

Woahh I disagree with this.

The reason those females are not good at platformers is because they never played those games in the first place. I can guarantee you the exact same thing would happen with a guy if he played a game he wasn't familiar with (just like I bet most of us here suck at sports and racing games).

Also, I don't get this. I find girls to be just as good as guys in gaming. It all depends on your experience with games and how much time you invest in them. It has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Shinan and Dudesoft made some very good points. I also don't see how that picture could offend anyone when they're obviously just trying to cater to the casual female gamer. This seems to be a discussion between lifestyles and the type of person you are rather than your gender.

Woahh I disagree with this.

The reason those females are not good at platformers is because they never played those games in the first place. I can guarantee you the exact same thing would happen with a guy if he played a game he wasn't familiar with (just like I bet most of us here suck at sports and racing games).

Really? Interesting! I mean, I'm only basing this on my experience. I've had girls just flat out tell me the reason why they're not good at those types of games is because they 'think too much' instead of actually just acting out on their twitch reflexes. Of course it's linked to experience, and one gender isn't intrisically better than the other at video games, but considering there is a physiological and cultural effect on how one genders thought processes and pattern of thinking turn out, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that one gender may be naturally, even if slightly 'better or worse' than the other at a certain type of game.

I mean, it's unfair to counter a point such as mind with 'everyone can be as good as the other'. I mean, of course! But is it a stretch to figure that assuming there is a psychological difference between the genders (which there most certainly is), at least some of it would transfer into the gaming world? That's not to say that anyone is limited of course.

author=aprilschild link=topic=2520.msg46255#msg46255 date=1227295670
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's minds work. Neither is superior, we just think differently. For example, men are better at thinking spacially (which sometimes makes them better at parking). Women are better at multi-tasking (to make us better at taking care of families from an evolutionary standpoint). This isn't to say that women can't park and that men can't raise families... but there have been enough studies done that I believe firmly that the way in which we think is different.

That is the point I want to bring. I´ve read at least 3 books which somehow tell about differences between average men and women ("Men are from Mars, women are from Venus", "Why do men make sex and women make love?", "Equal Rites" from Discworld series) and that those differences in both mind and body are natural and bilogical rather than coming from social conditioning.

Let´s point that essentially all humans are female at their base, however when DNA says male, certain quantities of masculine hormone are released to turn the body and mind into male ones. However those quantities are not programmed by computer so sometimes a girl baby end up receiving a bit of masculine hormone or a baby boy might receive less masculine hormone than needed to change his body and mind completely.
Those generate girls with manly traits and boys with girly traits.

Now, those traits were "designed" by nature when humans were primitive as other animals and back then, men just had to provide food and woman had to care for the cave and bear children.

This natural division gave men awesome spatial perception and abstration to outmatch the prey and to avoid being prey by bigger predators, also a lot of sheer physical power to disable the prey in fight and handle instruments to fight.

Women got a mind prefected for multi tasking, to watch over all the kids plus be on alert for dangers which also gave her a great peripheric vision to scope everything arouns her at short distances so her kids wouldn´t go out of her view easily. Also better hearing and a sort of sixth sense.

Note that despite the default hormones distribution, practice can enhance habilities anyway, just that an average girl or boy will have those characteristics set as described above, this proved by science.

So getting back to our time...

A regular guy would have good reflexes, would navegate easily using maps, calculate speed and path of projectlies easily as well as time to jump on platforms and distance over holes. Males may be better at chasing a single target, girls would be awesome at fighting multiple enemies.

A regular girl would be more patient to handle character upgrades, take care of monsters, be immersed into a story while thinking about a puzzle and equipment sets all at the same time. Would have an easer time locating objects/secret doors on the screen. Girls are also more social so that explains MMOs, for boys MMOs are good for competition, for girls it is companionship.

I think I am generally fitting for the male concepts: I can calculate shot paths and seepds relatively okay, I suck at multi tasking, I am awesome on finding myself on maps (my friend and I used to do a joke in FF6 where he moved the airship ramdomly and said a name of a city and I had X seconds to find said city... I always won :P). My less manly point lies in slow reflexes .

Now playing games with my ex gf brought some insights: In Gundam Omni vs Zaft, where you have a semi FPS view and may fight multiple anemies I usually had a nice time use transforming mechs to fly and snipe enemies from afar, but I was easily owned by multiple targets because I can only focus on one at time unless I force myself to change lock from time to time. She on the other hand got lot easily in stages, but it was rare to see her being shot in the back by unexpected enemies. n fact she used to play RPGs with me close only so I could guide her when she got lost, unless it was a plain top view rpg, then camera was fixed and north was always up.

That last bit on Asa´s post reminded me that on fighting games I always owned my ex gf, aside from Naruto Ultimate Ninja which I had trouble hitting special attacks while she would hit me with specials anytime she tried :O

That is an incredibly misogynistic view, Orig. What you're saying is you aren't willing to put forth the effort of understanding them simply on grounds that they are the opposite sex.

In your view then, it's ok for that ad to portray girls as vapid, brainless gamers?

But I like Mario! And Sonic. And I just bought Alex the Kidd, Wonder Boy and some fighter game on Sega. And own everyone in the house on them! ^.^

Of course I prefer RPGs because I'm a reader and like the story/character interaction, but that don't mean I can't kick my brothers' (4 of 'em) arses in Smash Bro's or Mario Cart. I can and I will.

I think it's really more a matter of person experience and like/dislike/ If you don't like a game then you're not gonna try too hard at it now, are you? If you don't play games like that often you aren't gonna be too good at them when playing against those who've played them for years.

Don't get me wrong, though. Feld may have a point - there just isn't proper evidence to verify or deny.

As to the image? I don't like it that much. Personally I wouldn't play those games and most of the women/girls I know wouldn't touch 'em either. Take my little sister - she's into Spyro, sports, racing, Sims and music games. If we had Guitar Hero, she'd probably own it. And she's pretty girly.