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HOW TO AVOID BECOMING PRECIOUS WITH AN EARLY PROJECT?
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MacShift
1027
MacShift
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CloseEvery article and video about game development says it's imperative to make short, simple games that you don't care too much about for your first several projects. (Though they usually mean creating Pong or Pac-Man clones.)
As one who struggles with perfectionism in general, I'm really having trouble doing this with a JRPG-style game. I came up with a short, silly game idea and committed to it, and am being careful to resist scope creep. But I still want it to be fun to play, and I'm a storyteller at heart... so it matters to me. The more I work on it, the more attached to it I become! Then comes Analysis Paralysis!
Does anyone else struggle with this? Any tips?
As one who struggles with perfectionism in general, I'm really having trouble doing this with a JRPG-style game. I came up with a short, silly game idea and committed to it, and am being careful to resist scope creep. But I still want it to be fun to play, and I'm a storyteller at heart... so it matters to me. The more I work on it, the more attached to it I become! Then comes Analysis Paralysis!
Does anyone else struggle with this? Any tips?
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Join events. Then you're FORCED to do something small and quick!
Darken
3952
yeah just join game jams, maybe with other people, and try to enjoy the process more than the result. A lot of what I chase after now is less "what would be cool" and more "what would be actually fun to work on and not a hassle"
Another way to look at it: You are not making a cohesive game you are making an iteration of what you are capable of in a moment in time. There are a lot of things I would do differently on previous projects knowing the things I do now. You have to make something in order to gain knowledge on how to make things better. All the copious gamedev time in the world isn't going to make up for your lack of inexperience. Things like feedback and looking back on something tangible you made is more informative than some imaginary perfect thing in your head.
Another way to look at it: You are not making a cohesive game you are making an iteration of what you are capable of in a moment in time. There are a lot of things I would do differently on previous projects knowing the things I do now. You have to make something in order to gain knowledge on how to make things better. All the copious gamedev time in the world isn't going to make up for your lack of inexperience. Things like feedback and looking back on something tangible you made is more informative than some imaginary perfect thing in your head.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Also it can be kind of a blast trying to cram as much stuff as you can into a brief period of time. Like the 3 day and 3 hour events we did were SO MUCH FUN despinte being a little stressful.
And there's just a Difference that you feel when you've actually finished something and put it out in the world. It gets a lot easier to keep going for the goal, rather than eternally futzing.
author=Darken
All the copious gamedev time in the world isn't going to make up for your lack of inexperience. Things like feedback and looking back on something tangible you made is more informative than some imaginary perfect thing in your head.
And there's just a Difference that you feel when you've actually finished something and put it out in the world. It gets a lot easier to keep going for the goal, rather than eternally futzing.
MacShift
1027
author=Darken
Another way to look at it: You are not making a cohesive game you are making an iteration of what you are capable of in a moment in time. There are a lot of things I would do differently on previous projects knowing the things I do now. You have to make something in order to gain knowledge on how to make things better. All the copious gamedev time in the world isn't going to make up for your lack of inexperience. Things like feedback and looking back on something tangible you made is more informative than some imaginary perfect thing in your head.
I've heard the same said about digital painting, where this perfectionism also haunts me. (I know it's true, but the angst still creeps in! I have a ton of "almost finished" paintings...) I guess I can remind myself that there's nothing to stop me from remaking a cruddy early game if I find myself still in love with the concept later.
author=Sooz
Join events. Then you're FORCED to do something small and quick!
I do like the idea of events and/or game jams. It would definitely be scary, but it would help if I can get myself to do it. I'll have to look through the past events to get a feel for it!
Thank you both for your advice!
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=MacShift
I've heard the same said about digital painting, where this perfectionism also haunts me. (I know it's true, but the angst still creeps in! I have a ton of "almost finished" paintings...) I guess I can remind myself that there's nothing to stop me from remaking a cruddy early game if I find myself still in love with the concept later.
Oh man I have this problem. I do a webcomic so I had to train myself out of it, and here's what helped me:
1) Pay attention when you look at similar work by others. How many flaws and imperfections do you normally see? Look closer. Really inspect that shit. You will find that there are tons of them everywhere! But most of the audience neither notices nor cares, they're just happy to experience An Art.
2) One of my mantras is "Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good." Sometimes, you just have to accept the imperfection for the sake of getting the goddamn piece done already. And just remind yourself of point 1 above: most of your audience won't notice or care.
3) One of my professors liked to say, "You have a hundred shitty pages in you. The only way to get rid of them is to draw them all." You will never be able to reliably make good shit unless you work through all the bad shit.
SO CHURN OUT SOME STUFF! Doesn't even have to be good stuff, just make things and do it a lot and you WILL improve if you give even half a shit.
One of the best ways to avoid falling into an "early darling" trap is to not use the big game that inspired you as a template for your first project. Or maybe even the second or the third. You might say "Wow. Earthbound inspired me to make a game. I want to make something just as impactful as that. I'm gonna do that right now!"
Don't do that right away. Let yourself realize that you're going to have a honeymoon period with game development and if you spend it trying to make your big one right out of the gate, you're going to burn out fast. Understand that there are MANY steps that you have to allow yourself to take.
If you want to make a 20 hour games, let yourself make a 2 hour game.
If you want to use all custom assets, let yourself make a game with the RTP to learn how the engine works.
If you want to make a great big Kickstarter game and get all those yummy social media numbers, let yourself make smaller games first to build yourself up (and avoid being another kickstarter disaster story).
MacShift
1027
Sooz, you're so right about the imperfections thing. I'm way more critical of my own stuff than I am of anyone else's, or anyone else is of mine. It's good to be reminded of this point.
I've never heard it put that way. I like it!
Yes this is what I'm learning, as my first game dev attempt was several years ago and went nowhere. (Thankfully I knew better than to do the Kickstarter thing, as that is just about my worst nightmare!)
author=Sooz
3) One of my professors liked to say, "You have a hundred shitty pages in you. The only way to get rid of them is to draw them all." You will never be able to reliably make good shit unless you work through all the bad shit.
I've never heard it put that way. I like it!
author=Sgt M
Don't do that right away. Let yourself realize that you're going to have a honeymoon period with game development and if you spend it trying to make your big one right out of the gate, you're going to burn out fast. Understand that there are MANY steps that you have to allow yourself to take.
If you want to make a 20 hour games, let yourself make a 2 hour game.
If you want to use all custom assets, let yourself make a game with the RTP to learn how the engine works.
If you want to make a great big Kickstarter game and get all those yummy social media numbers, let yourself make smaller games first to build yourself up (and avoid being another kickstarter disaster story).
Yes this is what I'm learning, as my first game dev attempt was several years ago and went nowhere. (Thankfully I knew better than to do the Kickstarter thing, as that is just about my worst nightmare!)
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I am not joking even a little bit when I say that this silly comic absolutely helped me realize that I don't need to make everything 100% perfect to be enjoyed.
For people that want to consume art, whether it be paintings, comics, or video games with aging and unpopular gameplay, just having something to consume is already awesome.
MacShift
1027
Oh that is good! I'm saving this.
I really do need to get out of my own head sometimes.
I really do need to get out of my own head sometimes.
Irog
4858
When you build your project, you subconsciously list ALL its flaws. And if you spend your time removing them all, you project will never end. By showing an imperfect early version of you project, you receive feedback telling you which flaws have the most negative impact. So you can focus on solving those. Then get new feedback... You'll be surprised at how many huge time consuming flaws to fix don't bother the players. Fast iteration cycles are your best friends!
Hey now! Not every article says to make small games. This one says to swing for the fences:
https://rpgmaker.net/articles/802/
"Passion is an incredible motivator. It fuels focus, resilience, and perseverance. Staying passionate is important, and making something you really want to make is the best way to stay passionate."
https://rpgmaker.net/articles/802/
"Passion is an incredible motivator. It fuels focus, resilience, and perseverance. Staying passionate is important, and making something you really want to make is the best way to stay passionate."
Aegix_Drakan
6037
Also, you can always update your short event game later and make it better.
The first thing I released for this site was for an event and while it was pretty functional...It had a lot of issues.
I went back like 4 times to make it better. Replacing random encounters, adding more visual flair so you could tell what was happening, adding new bosses, etc.
Yes, getting it right on the first try and having the game be great on release, or great within the first month or so after release feels the best, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
Or maybe it's just a "me" thing. I've learned how to tell my more perfectionist-y tendencies "Alright, that's enough. It's done. Done but imperfect is better than perfect but never released"
The first thing I released for this site was for an event and while it was pretty functional...It had a lot of issues.
I went back like 4 times to make it better. Replacing random encounters, adding more visual flair so you could tell what was happening, adding new bosses, etc.
Yes, getting it right on the first try and having the game be great on release, or great within the first month or so after release feels the best, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way.
Or maybe it's just a "me" thing. I've learned how to tell my more perfectionist-y tendencies "Alright, that's enough. It's done. Done but imperfect is better than perfect but never released"
author=Aegix_Drakan
It's done. Done but imperfect is better than perfect but never released
Highlighting this because I think this is important for newer developers:
Regardless of how far you intend to go with game development, whether you want it to be a career or just a hobby, one of the most important qualities ANY type of content creator to have is the ability to finish projects. Even if it's just jam games, or smaller games to build up to something, having a track record of finishing what you start will help establish you as dependable.
Having a reputation for making AND delivering is huge and will help set you apart, and people will start to say "Hey! A new project by so-and-so. Can't wait to play it!". Heck, you really don't want to be one of those devs who has had the prettiest-looking test room for three years. Because while stuff like that is nice to look at, people will start to realize that the game is probably never coming out.
(I could go into why you shouldn't design a game around quick bursts of social media appeal but that's for another day.)
Oddly enough, all of my projects that got finished were started as an entry to a game jam or event or contest of some sort.
E:
oops, I lied. Mario vs The Moon Base and Super Doki Doki World were NOT started as an entry to an event, and are finished.
Every other finished game was started as an entry to an event, though. ...I don't think I managed to complete enough to actually SUBMIT it to the event, but that frenzied start to try to make a deadline did spur me on to actually making a workable product.
...I should explore that facet of game development in an article...
E:
oops, I lied. Mario vs The Moon Base and Super Doki Doki World were NOT started as an entry to an event, and are finished.
Every other finished game was started as an entry to an event, though. ...I don't think I managed to complete enough to actually SUBMIT it to the event, but that frenzied start to try to make a deadline did spur me on to actually making a workable product.
...I should explore that facet of game development in an article...
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Yeah few motivations are as effective as good, solid last minute deadline panic.
MacShift
1027
author=Irog
Fast iteration cycles are your best friends!
Yes I know this is true. My perfectionism is so bad I found myself reworking placeholder art... definitely slows me down.
author=kentona
Hey now! Not every article says to make small games. This one says to swing for the fences:
https://rpgmaker.net/articles/802/
"Passion is an incredible motivator. It fuels focus, resilience, and perseverance. Staying passionate is important, and making something you really want to make is the best way to stay passionate."
This is a really great article! (I'm saving this along with the cakes comic to revisit.)
I think a long game would be bad for me, but I am passionate about my short, silly game idea. I'm going for a mix of adventure and humor and am excited to see if I can pull it off. I'm just a bit overwhelmed.
author=Aegix_Drakan
Also, you can always update your short event game later and make it better.
I'm working up the nerve to commit to doing the next event--whatever it might be--to see if it can help knock me out of this rut!
author=Sgt M
Having a reputation for making AND delivering is huge and will help set you apart, and people will start to say "Hey! A new project by so-and-so. Can't wait to play it!". Heck, you really don't want to be one of those devs who has had the prettiest-looking test room for three years. Because while stuff like that is nice to look at, people will start to realize that the game is probably never coming out.
This is something I think about a lot. I don't want to let people down, which is why I wouldn't go on Kickstarter. If I did, it wouldn't be for one of my first games, and it would be when I was just about done with the game already. (Still hard to imagine!)
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