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THIS IS THE TOPIC WHERE WE BITCH ABOUT VIDEO GAME ART, OKAY GUYS?
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Karsuman
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CloseSince this was obviously a BURNING TOPIC that absolutely needed to devastate poor Skie's thread, I figure it is time that an actual topic was made about it instead of tearing apart what is left of Skie's thread.
It was discussed in the topic before Nessiah destroyed Skie's topic. What do YOU think is important in terms of aesthetics and storytelling to reach the audience you desire?
In every step of the creation process we make choices that will attract or dissuade a potential player. We often discuss this in terms of gameplay - but how about from the perspective of writing and art? I mean, if we wanted to reach the largest and most casual audience possible we would probably go with a traditional fantasy story and vaguely realistic but somewhat stylized character designs.
So why is it people decide to make sci-fi and modern games? How do things like face art and concept (the main topic of discussion in Skie's thread for awhile there) effect your choice in game to play? Keep in mind that Skie's graphics were custom-made for her project and were, generally speaking, of at least passable quality, and the game STILL alienated players. People were simply unwilling to try it based on it's simplistic story and what it looked like.
Basically, to sum it up, the question is this - are you, as a game designer, willing to knowingly sacrifice potential audience to fulfill your own artistic direction?
It was discussed in the topic before Nessiah destroyed Skie's topic. What do YOU think is important in terms of aesthetics and storytelling to reach the audience you desire?
In every step of the creation process we make choices that will attract or dissuade a potential player. We often discuss this in terms of gameplay - but how about from the perspective of writing and art? I mean, if we wanted to reach the largest and most casual audience possible we would probably go with a traditional fantasy story and vaguely realistic but somewhat stylized character designs.
So why is it people decide to make sci-fi and modern games? How do things like face art and concept (the main topic of discussion in Skie's thread for awhile there) effect your choice in game to play? Keep in mind that Skie's graphics were custom-made for her project and were, generally speaking, of at least passable quality, and the game STILL alienated players. People were simply unwilling to try it based on it's simplistic story and what it looked like.
Basically, to sum it up, the question is this - are you, as a game designer, willing to knowingly sacrifice potential audience to fulfill your own artistic direction?
I've said this before, but I am my own audience.
I make games tailored to what I would like to play. But I guess that's true of everybody so I'll just shut up now.
I make games tailored to what I would like to play. But I guess that's true of everybody so I'll just shut up now.
I think a game's art direction says a lot about the personality of the game creator, and thus, says a lot about the rest of the game. (One reason I haven't tried Exit Fate yet, since I can't stand the "realistic" faces)
That's mostly for original art.
That said, it's not the quality of the art, but the style. (But then after style is established, good respective quality is needed.) For instance, Dragon warrior 1 had great art direction.
It's all one big ensemble that has to fit together. Yes, gameplay and fun > all, but the visuals are a part of the gameplay to a limited extent.
That's mostly for original art.
That said, it's not the quality of the art, but the style. (But then after style is established, good respective quality is needed.) For instance, Dragon warrior 1 had great art direction.
It's all one big ensemble that has to fit together. Yes, gameplay and fun > all, but the visuals are a part of the gameplay to a limited extent.
S. F. LaValle
1069
Amateur game developers create games based off of their personal strengths, and want to be able to show them off to the world. Artists will create games that showcase their artistic talents, writers will create games based on stories, etc. Making a game is a lot for one (or few) people to handle, so it only makes sense that the most time will be spent developing the particular skill you *want* to develop.
Some people want to draw anime-style artwork. That's perfectly fine, but it's not everyone's bag. People shouldn't necessarily be pressured into coming up with their own style. They just want to draw something that looks nice. These people should be prepared for an audience of people that also like anime-style artwork, and also alienating those who don't.
Some people make games for the point of maximizing their audience. Graphical style is kept low-key but consistent, story is only as important as the type of game it's for. Gameplay is absolutely vital. These are the people that try to understand what the people want, and accomodate for it.
Back on the topic of art, visual consistency is more important to me than visual style. Visual style DOES create expectations regarding the content and tone of the game. If they don't correspond, the game can feel off. Skie's game in particular was exactly what I expected it to be; PC dating sim dialogue between stages of gameplay that carries a tone that matches the graphical style; light and somewhat comical.
I'm not going to tell people to try to open up their narrow minds and try something that doesn't look interesting to them. I'm not naive enough to believe that people don't judge things by looks. If you want to play games, play the games that look interesting to you. People marketing games should realize that some people just want to play games, and if your game doesn't look good to them, they won't play it. People that review games have a responsibility to look beyond on particular aspect (be it dumb art or Chrono Trigger music) and judge a game by all its parts.
Some people want to draw anime-style artwork. That's perfectly fine, but it's not everyone's bag. People shouldn't necessarily be pressured into coming up with their own style. They just want to draw something that looks nice. These people should be prepared for an audience of people that also like anime-style artwork, and also alienating those who don't.
Some people make games for the point of maximizing their audience. Graphical style is kept low-key but consistent, story is only as important as the type of game it's for. Gameplay is absolutely vital. These are the people that try to understand what the people want, and accomodate for it.
Back on the topic of art, visual consistency is more important to me than visual style. Visual style DOES create expectations regarding the content and tone of the game. If they don't correspond, the game can feel off. Skie's game in particular was exactly what I expected it to be; PC dating sim dialogue between stages of gameplay that carries a tone that matches the graphical style; light and somewhat comical.
I'm not going to tell people to try to open up their narrow minds and try something that doesn't look interesting to them. I'm not naive enough to believe that people don't judge things by looks. If you want to play games, play the games that look interesting to you. People marketing games should realize that some people just want to play games, and if your game doesn't look good to them, they won't play it. People that review games have a responsibility to look beyond on particular aspect (be it dumb art or Chrono Trigger music) and judge a game by all its parts.
author=Karsuman link=topic=3227.msg63761#msg63761 date=1235701158
It was discussed in the topic before Nessiah destroyed Skie's topic. What do YOU think is important in terms of aesthetics and storytelling to reach the audience you desire?
Presentation. No matter what style an author uses, if the presentation is badly done, then all the work would be for naught. A story that can't communicate its content to the player, music that can't bring the player into the action or mood, artwork that can't describe the player's world, characters, or events; those are all examples of bad presentation. This includes quality, consistency, and form.
In every step of the creation process we make choices that will attract or dissuade a potential player. We often discuss this in terms of gameplay - but how about from the perspective of writing and art? I mean, if we wanted to reach the largest and most casual audience possible we would probably go with a traditional fantasy story and vaguely realistic but somewhat stylized character designs.
This is where genre comes in. A musical example would be the differences between hard rock, soft rock, and heavy metal. Choosing a genre determines what audience you will be targeting. This is true for every work of art/literature/etc. anyone produces; there is no such thing as a target-all genre.
So why is it people decide to make sci-fi and modern games? How do things like face art and concept (the main topic of discussion in Skie's thread for awhile there) effect your choice in game to play? Keep in mind that Skie's graphics were custom-made for her project and were, generally speaking, of at least passable quality, and the game STILL alienated players. People were simply unwilling to try it based on it's simplistic story and what it looked like.
I personally liked Skie's art; it had a "kawaii-silly" aspect to it which I enjoy in some anime. In the same token, I can see how it wouldn't be other people's cup of tea. This is another example of genre taking effect. Also, I'd be lying if I said anime wasn't part of the reason why I'm taking a media major; it's been a huge influence in my line of thinking.
Basically, to sum it up, the question is this - are you, as a game designer, willing to knowingly sacrifice potential audience to fulfill your own artistic direction?
Following new/uncommon/oddball/etc. artistic directions generates more creativity, and makes the entertainment world that much more interesting. If the same old formula was used all the time, then the world would be a static, boring place. None of history's famed artistic revolutions would have occurred, and nothing new would come out; this is the fallacy Hollywood tries to keep up, which utterly fails nearly every time executives attempt to retain the "norm". Consider George Lucas' "Star Wars" and Gene Roddenbery's "Star Trek"; two mid-90's sci-fi epics that popularized the concept of serious space opera. During that time, most American space opera was relegated to camp, or not taken seriously otherwise.
Also, there are sayings about this:
"If you truly want to succeed, then you must take some chances."
"Risk is part of the game."
"You never know what you're going to get until you try."
Cliche, but most certainly true.
Shinan
4314
author=Atavus Dei link=topic=3227.msg63776#msg63776 date=1235706196What?
Consider George Lucas' "Star Wars" and Gene Roddenbery's "Star Trek"; two mid-90's sci-fi epics that popularized the concept of serious space opera.
Alright I haven't read whatever topic you're referring so I don't have that context. To be honest my artistic skills are of the variety that I try to justify having simple blobs as characters if someone offered me "good graphics" even if it wasn't in my taste I'd jump at it immediately. I guess though, as someone said, that artistic concistency is is the most important part. Mix'n match just doesn't work. Apart from that I can't really think of any art that'd turn me off a game any more than the theme of a game would. (Well actually that's a lie. Anime will make me hesitant every time. Stay away from anime kids.)
I personally have never really given a shit about graphical consistency as long as things aren't clashing so hard that my eyes are bleeding.
Then again, I am very not an artist.
Also I hope my expressing my opinion in this topic will not lead to it being completely derailed.
Then again, I am very not an artist.
Also I hope my expressing my opinion in this topic will not lead to it being completely derailed.
author=Shinan link=topic=3227.msg63810#msg63810 date=1235715859author=Atavus Dei link=topic=3227.msg63776#msg63776 date=1235706196What?
Consider George Lucas' "Star Wars" and Gene Roddenbery's "Star Trek"; two mid-90's sci-fi epics that popularized the concept of serious space opera.
Fuck my life, sorry. :P I meant mid-1900's, but you already knew that! Late posting while other things are going on never works...
Also I hope my expressing my opinion in this topic will not lead to it being completely derailed.
I'm not going to go into a complete discussion here, but I'll say this: People got pissy at you because your initial comments seemed (important word) very much damning with nothing else, since you did not care much about the art style in the first place. It's like, why bother posting if that's all you're going to add, especially as one of the game's first comments? Nothing constructive could've come from it. There's stating what you think, and there's being crass.
That's all I'm saying on this matter.
Estrella
0
You can't please everyone and you shouldn't even bother trying. Even though I'm new to this, really inexperienced and have nothing to show, I'm completely with kentona; what I'm working to make will be to please myself, if it ever gets finished. There seems to be several topics here with discussion about alienating certain audiences from your games. I say screw that line of thinking. Make something that you yourself like, that you feel shows your strengths and personality and hopefully someone out there will like it too. If professional developers only tried to make games that please everyone, the only RPGs we'd likely see are FF, DQ and clones of them.
Though, I'm not suggesting completely ignoring others opinions on your work. If something in your game continually presents a problem for alot of people, it might not be a bad idea to make some changes, but only if the changes you make still fall within your vision of what you wanted to create. Or something. I dunno.
--
As far as art goes, for the most part I really don't care about what artistic direction people want to take with their projects. At least, usually not in a negative sense. If I find something visually appealing I might be more interested in playing it, but if people say something is good and I think it looks like ass I'd still be open to trying it. Really, whats the worst that can happen if I do? I find out I don't like it and wasted a little time downloading it? The only thing that would really stop me from trying something is limitations of free time I have imposed by my life.
I'm working on something right now that I'm trying to create my own graphics for. I'm pretty sure the designs for my characters will turn some people off. Whatever, you know? No pleasing everyone.
Though, I'm not suggesting completely ignoring others opinions on your work. If something in your game continually presents a problem for alot of people, it might not be a bad idea to make some changes, but only if the changes you make still fall within your vision of what you wanted to create. Or something. I dunno.
--
As far as art goes, for the most part I really don't care about what artistic direction people want to take with their projects. At least, usually not in a negative sense. If I find something visually appealing I might be more interested in playing it, but if people say something is good and I think it looks like ass I'd still be open to trying it. Really, whats the worst that can happen if I do? I find out I don't like it and wasted a little time downloading it? The only thing that would really stop me from trying something is limitations of free time I have imposed by my life.
I'm working on something right now that I'm trying to create my own graphics for. I'm pretty sure the designs for my characters will turn some people off. Whatever, you know? No pleasing everyone.
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