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[ARTICLE UP!] EDUCATED CHOICE AWARDS!
Posts
DE
View playlists
CloseThink of it as a sort of Academy Awards, but for indie RPGs on rpgmaker.net.
Certain folk kept clamoring for an "expert" panel to distill for us the good games released this past year.
Also:
EDUCATED CHOICE AWARDS
Not "Games a certain group of people find cool".
@Craze - I have NO IDEA what "crunka" is supposed to mean, even phonetically :)
Think of it as a sort of Academy Awards, but for indie RPGs on rpgmaker.net.
...in terms of the determination process. Misaos is People Choice, ECA is subjectively chosen by a panel.
Certain folk kept clamoring for an "expert" panel to distill for us the good games released this past year.
Read "expert". The double quotes are there for a reason.
Also:...JOKINGLY ARROGANT...EDUCATED CHOICE AWARDS
Not "Games a certain group of people find cool".
Man, you have to understand that, when it comes to subjectively judging intangibles like fun and satisfaction and overall enjoyment, people are going to come up with entirely different ideas. When was the last time you saw an awards show pick every movie/book/song/etc... that you thought should be awarded? Besides, the people who worked on this should be commended, not condemned - they put a lot of work into providing the community with some cohesion and content. They shouldn't be attacked solely on the basis that they chose different games than you would have.
If any one has differing opinions, and want to voice them, ask to become a judge. Or start your own awards.
Lastly, does anyone else find it odd that the Misaos - an event often vilified for its flaws and supceptability to exploitation - is being used to show that the ECAs are flawed?
author=kentona link=topic=3436.msg69952#msg69952 date=1239198584
Lastly, does anyone else find it odd that the Misaos - an event often vilified for its flaws and supceptability to exploitation - is being used to show that the ECAs are flawed?
Nope, I find it startlingly predictable.
You mean "kromka"? It's a slice of bread, though. End of bread is "pi?tka" (pietka).
And yes, this thread is hilarious :) Especially when one statement by yours truly has become the voice of the whole community. And somehow tied with GW's hate of Misaos. You guys would make outstanding politicians.
And yes, this thread is hilarious :) Especially when one statement by yours truly has become the voice of the whole community. And somehow tied with GW's hate of Misaos. You guys would make outstanding politicians.
Who said anything about GW? Complaints came in about the Misaos from here, GW, IGP and Kobra's Realm, just to name the ones I posted.
Also, DE, you aren't the only one voicing displeasure over the ECAs.
Also, DE, you aren't the only one voicing displeasure over the ECAs.
Just make it a list of GAMES YOU MIGHT MAYBE WANT TO PLAY IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE (DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO LOOK; YOU'LL JUST GET PISSY ANYWAY (EVEN IF YOUR GAME IS ON THE LIST))! ALSO, BALMUNG CYCLELOL.
DE: You have shattered my belief in my Polish grandmother's random words. ;_;
BTW: I have played a lot of Balmung Cycle and enjoyed it. It is not the only game out there, however!
DE: You have shattered my belief in my Polish grandmother's random words. ;_;
BTW: I have played a lot of Balmung Cycle and enjoyed it. It is not the only game out there, however!
MayorAnime
282
WARNING: Strongly worded opinion here.
The 'Educated Choice Awards' is highly comparable in concept to the 'Screen Actors Guild Awards', in that it relies more on a judgment of peers within the same craft than it does on popular opinion, or the highly political votes of a single board of non-peers. Either way, it has the potential to become extremely elitest and cliquish.
While I trust the judges mentioned in that article to be unbiased and fair, and it seems to be that way for this initial implementation, I urge a sense of extreme caution to Kentona, Holbert, WIP, and anyone else who spear-heads this endeavor. I also advise, and I mean this in complete sincerity, that the judges be different each time, even if being rotated from a pool.
Ultimately, whatever those responsible for the 'Educated Choice Awards' decide is up to them; however, unless a sense of unbiased is clearly implemented in the beginning, this award will, sooner or later, breed a sense of elitism, create a feeling of cliques (or inner circles), and possibility breed resentment from otherwise easy-going designers.
(And as an aside, to quell any responses of this nature prematurely, I do not personally care if anything I have created ever wins a Misao, an EC Award, or even any accolades. While I like praise, that is not why I am here. I am here to make games, help others make games, and enjoy intelligent conversation. My success and happiness as a Game Designer does not rest on the approval and praise of others, but the fulfillment of my art.)
The 'Educated Choice Awards' is highly comparable in concept to the 'Screen Actors Guild Awards', in that it relies more on a judgment of peers within the same craft than it does on popular opinion, or the highly political votes of a single board of non-peers. Either way, it has the potential to become extremely elitest and cliquish.
While I trust the judges mentioned in that article to be unbiased and fair, and it seems to be that way for this initial implementation, I urge a sense of extreme caution to Kentona, Holbert, WIP, and anyone else who spear-heads this endeavor. I also advise, and I mean this in complete sincerity, that the judges be different each time, even if being rotated from a pool.
Ultimately, whatever those responsible for the 'Educated Choice Awards' decide is up to them; however, unless a sense of unbiased is clearly implemented in the beginning, this award will, sooner or later, breed a sense of elitism, create a feeling of cliques (or inner circles), and possibility breed resentment from otherwise easy-going designers.
(And as an aside, to quell any responses of this nature prematurely, I do not personally care if anything I have created ever wins a Misao, an EC Award, or even any accolades. While I like praise, that is not why I am here. I am here to make games, help others make games, and enjoy intelligent conversation. My success and happiness as a Game Designer does not rest on the approval and praise of others, but the fulfillment of my art.)
sweet jesus, people.
You have misaos, which are decided by the great masses of angry mobs, and you ECA's, which are decided by a small group of conspiratorial oligarchal secretive elitists. All sides are covered, done.
You have misaos, which are decided by the great masses of angry mobs, and you ECA's, which are decided by a small group of conspiratorial oligarchal secretive elitists. All sides are covered, done.
Hahaha.
I am convinced people just care too much.
I'll admit the name is obnoxious, but it's like this...
The Misaos are criticized for mass-voting sprees by certain sites. Sites with a proportionally large population often (not always), proportionally, win. This happens. It's happened in the past. That is their nature. That is why games like Balmung Cycle, Master of the Wind and Quintessence will win. Influx from two of our community's biggest sites(GW and RMXP.org). Let it go.
As for the ECAs, they are not unlike the good 'ol List back when people actually cared about GW's Game & Demo forum. BadLuck (and several folks from the #rm2k channel, including me) made a list of games ranked into tiers. It was highly contentious and I am pretty sure the thread erupted into a flame war.
The same backlash is happening to the ECAs. Some people are complaining over the name (whatever dudes, get over it), some are complaining over the content of the list (this always happens when you get a group of selected people - you will NEVER see all the games you want on the list on there), some are complaining about the people that worked on it (I guarantee you will hate any list another group makes just as much as this one). People will complain no matter how it is done.
Really, if you care enough to bitch, make your own list or something. This isn't something you should be taking very seriously in the first place. I found some of the games on the list rather unenjoyable myself.
also, this.
I am convinced people just care too much.
I'll admit the name is obnoxious, but it's like this...
The Misaos are criticized for mass-voting sprees by certain sites. Sites with a proportionally large population often (not always), proportionally, win. This happens. It's happened in the past. That is their nature. That is why games like Balmung Cycle, Master of the Wind and Quintessence will win. Influx from two of our community's biggest sites(GW and RMXP.org). Let it go.
As for the ECAs, they are not unlike the good 'ol List back when people actually cared about GW's Game & Demo forum. BadLuck (and several folks from the #rm2k channel, including me) made a list of games ranked into tiers. It was highly contentious and I am pretty sure the thread erupted into a flame war.
The same backlash is happening to the ECAs. Some people are complaining over the name (whatever dudes, get over it), some are complaining over the content of the list (this always happens when you get a group of selected people - you will NEVER see all the games you want on the list on there), some are complaining about the people that worked on it (I guarantee you will hate any list another group makes just as much as this one). People will complain no matter how it is done.
Really, if you care enough to bitch, make your own list or something. This isn't something you should be taking very seriously in the first place. I found some of the games on the list rather unenjoyable myself.
Lastly, does anyone else find it odd that the Misaos - an event often vilified for its flaws and supceptability to exploitation - is being used to show that the ECAs are flawed?
also, this.
I just realized that in spite of my strongly Polish ancestry, I don't know even a word of Polish. hahaha.
Anyway...
I personally don't feel those games should have been included on the list but enough other people did that they went up there. This is how a panel works.
Let me try to simplify/vulgarize what Karsuman is saying:
::deep breath::
PICK ONE, YOU FUCKERS. Either hate the Misaos because they are a stupid popularity contest or hate the ECAs because they are picked subjectively by a small panel of community "luminaries" (I have BOLDED THE IRONIC DOUBLE QUOTES FOR YOUR EASE IN VIEWING).
It is retarded to hate both. Literally, you all said that you hated the Misaos because they are not the ECAs. Now you are saying you hate the ECAs because they are not the Misaos.
In conclusion: ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHGHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Anyway...
Can anyone honestly and even remotely objectively say that 1873 and Harbinger are better than those two games?
I personally don't feel those games should have been included on the list but enough other people did that they went up there. This is how a panel works.
The Misaos are criticized for mass-voting sprees by certain sites. Sites with a proportionally large population often (not always), proportionally, win. This happens. It's happened in the past. That is their nature. That is why games like Balmung Cycle, Master of the Wind and Quintessence will win. Influx from two of our community's biggest sites(GW and RMXP.org). Let it go.
As for the ECAs, they are not unlike the good 'ol List back when people actually cared about GW's Game & Demo forum. BadLuck (and several folks from the #rm2k channel, including me) made a list of games ranked into tiers. It was highly contentious and I am pretty sure the thread erupted into a flame war.
The same backlash is happening to the ECAs. Some people are complaining over the name (whatever dudes, get over it), some are complaining over the content of the list (this always happens when you get a group of selected people - you will NEVER see all the games you want on the list on there), some are complaining about the people that worked on it (I guarantee you will hate any list another group makes just as much as this one). People will complain no matter how it is done.
Let me try to simplify/vulgarize what Karsuman is saying:
::deep breath::
PICK ONE, YOU FUCKERS. Either hate the Misaos because they are a stupid popularity contest or hate the ECAs because they are picked subjectively by a small panel of community "luminaries" (I have BOLDED THE IRONIC DOUBLE QUOTES FOR YOUR EASE IN VIEWING).
It is retarded to hate both. Literally, you all said that you hated the Misaos because they are not the ECAs. Now you are saying you hate the ECAs because they are not the Misaos.
In conclusion: ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHGHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I do not like the Misaos because they are meaningless to me and I do not like these because they are meaningless to me. I have reached a happy medium!
In the interest of full disclosure.
49 - Demon Tower
39 - SkyE
23 - Mage Duel
22 - Cavern of Doom
18 - USG
16 - Alter AILA Genesis
16 - 1873
14 - The Mirror Lied
11 - Quintessence
10 - Master of the Wind
10 - Harbinger
8 - Weird game by craze?
8 - Dragon Fantasy II
7 - Balmung Cycle
7 - Demon Legacy
6 - Ruptured Souls
6 - Origin
5 - Dungeon Crawl
5 - Starless Umbra
4 - Eleg's Eve
4 - Secrets of the Light
3 - Iffermoon
As a side note, I did not vote for Cavern of Doom, Quintessence, Alter AILA, 1873, The Mirror Lied and Harbinger(I am not lame enough to vote for my own buggy mess of a game).
49 - Demon Tower
39 - SkyE
23 - Mage Duel
22 - Cavern of Doom
18 - USG
16 - Alter AILA Genesis
16 - 1873
14 - The Mirror Lied
11 - Quintessence
10 - Master of the Wind
10 - Harbinger
8 - Weird game by craze?
8 - Dragon Fantasy II
7 - Balmung Cycle
7 - Demon Legacy
6 - Ruptured Souls
6 - Origin
5 - Dungeon Crawl
5 - Starless Umbra
4 - Eleg's Eve
4 - Secrets of the Light
3 - Iffermoon
As a side note, I did not vote for Cavern of Doom, Quintessence, Alter AILA, 1873, The Mirror Lied and Harbinger(I am not lame enough to vote for my own buggy mess of a game).
Mr.Nemo
1295
i'm just happy I wasn't considered for any internet award of anykind. Boy would that have been awkward... :S
author=Max McGee link=topic=3436.msg70274#msg70274 date=1239392012
PICK ONE, YOU FUCKERS. Either hate the Misaos because they are a stupid popularity contest or hate the ECAs because they are picked subjectively by a small panel of community "luminaries" (I have BOLDED THE IRONIC DOUBLE QUOTES FOR YOUR EASE IN VIEWING).
It is retarded to hate both. Literally, you all said that you hated the Misaos because they are not the ECAs. Now you are saying you hate the ECAs because they are not the Misaos.
In conclusion: ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHGHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
What if I hate both for reasons completely unrelated to the number of judges(
Blind
2262
author=MayorAnime link=topic=3436.msg70116#msg70116 date=1239281037This please.
I also advise, and I mean this in complete sincerity, that the judges be different each time, even if being rotated from a pool.
MayorAnime
282
author=Max McGee link=topic=3436.msg70274#msg70274 date=1239392012
PICK ONE, YOU FUCKERS. Either hate the Misaos because they are a stupid popularity contest or hate the ECAs because they are picked subjectively by a small panel of community "luminaries" (I have BOLDED THE IRONIC DOUBLE QUOTES FOR YOUR EASE IN VIEWING).
Here is a novel idea: Get rid of both the Misaos and the ECAs. Do away with anything other than the 'Release Something' Events. Whether it be maturity, philosophical point of view, or personal choice, neither is creating a spirit of 'Friendly Competition', or creating a 'drive to get people to make more games'. It's causing resentment, drama, cliques, and dividing lines.
Sad.
I would recommend doing away with both, and establishing a more contest driven event, like the Release Something...only with ranks, awards, and pie.
