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DUNGEON CRAWLING
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lolzallen
337
lolzallen
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CloseAs I look over the few games that I've contrived and attempted to create, I notice one distinct similarity between each of them:
They're all dungeon crawling games.
Why? There's just something about dungeon crawlers and roguelikes that I'm just taken with. But what?
Is it the loot? The absence or rarity of stores? I can get gold, but God knows if I'll have any use for it. I just know that I want it. I can find items that I'd otherwise have no use for: mirrors, whistles, and broken equipment, but cling to them in the off-chance that I could use them as opposed to simply discarding them for a sack of money from some dead-NPC merchant.
Is it the customization? The fact that I can pick and choose one and two for my character(s)?
Is it the exploration and crawl? The feeling that you're dwelling in such hostile territory that you must cautiously advance lest be slain by a horde of orcs...or worse, a floating eyeball in a narrow hallway?
There are many more virtues of these games than I've listed here, but I think I've summed up the purpose of this thread well enough.
I want to hear what you think about dungeon crawlers. In essence, what do you think makes them fun?
They're all dungeon crawling games.
Why? There's just something about dungeon crawlers and roguelikes that I'm just taken with. But what?
Is it the loot? The absence or rarity of stores? I can get gold, but God knows if I'll have any use for it. I just know that I want it. I can find items that I'd otherwise have no use for: mirrors, whistles, and broken equipment, but cling to them in the off-chance that I could use them as opposed to simply discarding them for a sack of money from some dead-NPC merchant.
Is it the customization? The fact that I can pick and choose one and two for my character(s)?
Is it the exploration and crawl? The feeling that you're dwelling in such hostile territory that you must cautiously advance lest be slain by a horde of orcs...or worse, a floating eyeball in a narrow hallway?
There are many more virtues of these games than I've listed here, but I think I've summed up the purpose of this thread well enough.
I want to hear what you think about dungeon crawlers. In essence, what do you think makes them fun?
I really love the idea of rogue-likes, but don't enjoy playing them for prolonged periods of time. This is why I made EMDE!2 as a tribute to Epic Monster Dungeon Explore, which is a coffee-break clickclickclick rogue-lite (CBCCCRL system) - it's short and fun. This is good.
Numbers are important to me, but at the same time so is a driving force. As such, I like dungeon crawls such as Etrian Odyssey 2 that have very solid gameplay yet also an entertaining cast. I'm not really looking for story, but rather something to care about. In EO2, you care about Lagaard and the Duke/Minister and you do the side-quest to find some precious gems for the Duke's daughter's birthday... and you also ask everybody what to get the lowly innkeep's daughter for her birthday. Even fucking not-anywhere-near-Vanessa-on-the-awesomeness-scale Cass grows on you.
So: it needs numbers, strategy, and something to look forward to. The orb of Zot just doesn't do it for me in the long run.
(FUN FACT: I hope to snare in people with the cast when it comes to Diablocide. Yeah, the battles are fun as hell but really I just want to tell about a dude in armor fanbuttfic'ing a mageboi in the ass AND to have people care about it.)
(wow nobody wants to play my game now wtf)
Numbers are important to me, but at the same time so is a driving force. As such, I like dungeon crawls such as Etrian Odyssey 2 that have very solid gameplay yet also an entertaining cast. I'm not really looking for story, but rather something to care about. In EO2, you care about Lagaard and the Duke/Minister and you do the side-quest to find some precious gems for the Duke's daughter's birthday... and you also ask everybody what to get the lowly innkeep's daughter for her birthday. Even fucking not-anywhere-near-Vanessa-on-the-awesomeness-scale Cass grows on you.
So: it needs numbers, strategy, and something to look forward to. The orb of Zot just doesn't do it for me in the long run.
(FUN FACT: I hope to snare in people with the cast when it comes to Diablocide. Yeah, the battles are fun as hell but really I just want to tell about a dude in armor fanbuttfic'ing a mageboi in the ass AND to have people care about it.)
(wow nobody wants to play my game now wtf)
Kaempfer
1932
I like dungeon crawlers for the replayability. There is also some intangible "survival" aspect of them. One of my favourite genres (and the one with perhaps the lowest number of good games) is just "survival". Gather items and food, build a safezone out of scrap and fight off monsters as you venture further and further into the wilderness/cave to get more and more food/items (the safe zone thing is something I'd like, not something that exists so far as I know).
If it wasn't for the survival aspect, I wouldn't like them. There was also some interesting game where you play as a lone survivour in medieval Finland, but I can't remember the same.
I would really like to see a game somewhere between Dwarf Fortress and a standard roguelike in complexity! That would be neat.
edit: This is why I like post-apocalyptic games so much.
If it wasn't for the survival aspect, I wouldn't like them. There was also some interesting game where you play as a lone survivour in medieval Finland, but I can't remember the same.
I would really like to see a game somewhere between Dwarf Fortress and a standard roguelike in complexity! That would be neat.
edit: This is why I like post-apocalyptic games so much.
Drakonais
2787
I always appreciated in survival games how the first few weapons you get to use are junk like "broken shovel" or "2x4 with a nail."
As for dungeon crawlers, they fascinate me and I have no idea why. I just love rewards, and that's basically what those games are about. A good dungeon crawler with survival aspects would be solid.
As for dungeon crawlers, they fascinate me and I have no idea why. I just love rewards, and that's basically what those games are about. A good dungeon crawler with survival aspects would be solid.
lolzallen
337
@Craze
True. Although some roguelikes(Nethack, IVAN, Powder, ADoM, etc) have captured my interest, I realize that I've not played them for long. It's a feat for one to keep me playing for even a whole afternoon. The idea of short roguelikes that have a set goal that is clearly in grasp is excellent; they capture a good select few of aspects while still being easily beaten in the time it'd usually take to get tired of them.
edit: I enjoyed Diablocide, by the way. The cast is probably the strongest aspect of it, as they don't only have unique personalities, but roles and services in battle as well.
@Kaempfer
The replayability aspect is probably one of the strongest I've noticed in DC/RLs.
The concept of survival and attachment to one's character is remarkable; however, there are some games that have actually done permadeath incorrectly. For example: IVAN itself is a very entertaining game. However, because of its sheer difficulty and nigh impossibility, losing your character becomes nearly routine, thus causing the permanency to lose its shine.
I absolutely adored Dwarf Fortress. It had the feeling of survival and management, whereas it also invoked panic in the player whenever something hazardous to the fortress appeared.
@Drakonais
The rewards of some DCs are pretty important.
Sometimes, for me, I wouldn't even consider rewards being handfuls of gold or amazing equips. Everytime I conquer a major enemy in a DC/RL, I get the feeling of "Holy shit, I just did that.", and become thrilled as I'm allowed to venture further into the game, pressing through deeper parts of the dungeon that I've never seen before.
As for endings, I've never even expected much. Maybe a "YOU ARE HERO" message box is enough for me. If I actually beat a game like Nethack, I'd feel rewarded enough that I could show off my e-peen while I brag about how I actually beat it.
True. Although some roguelikes(Nethack, IVAN, Powder, ADoM, etc) have captured my interest, I realize that I've not played them for long. It's a feat for one to keep me playing for even a whole afternoon. The idea of short roguelikes that have a set goal that is clearly in grasp is excellent; they capture a good select few of aspects while still being easily beaten in the time it'd usually take to get tired of them.
edit: I enjoyed Diablocide, by the way. The cast is probably the strongest aspect of it, as they don't only have unique personalities, but roles and services in battle as well.
@Kaempfer
The replayability aspect is probably one of the strongest I've noticed in DC/RLs.
The concept of survival and attachment to one's character is remarkable; however, there are some games that have actually done permadeath incorrectly. For example: IVAN itself is a very entertaining game. However, because of its sheer difficulty and nigh impossibility, losing your character becomes nearly routine, thus causing the permanency to lose its shine.
I absolutely adored Dwarf Fortress. It had the feeling of survival and management, whereas it also invoked panic in the player whenever something hazardous to the fortress appeared.
@Drakonais
The rewards of some DCs are pretty important.
Sometimes, for me, I wouldn't even consider rewards being handfuls of gold or amazing equips. Everytime I conquer a major enemy in a DC/RL, I get the feeling of "Holy shit, I just did that.", and become thrilled as I'm allowed to venture further into the game, pressing through deeper parts of the dungeon that I've never seen before.
As for endings, I've never even expected much. Maybe a "YOU ARE HERO" message box is enough for me. If I actually beat a game like Nethack, I'd feel rewarded enough that I could show off my e-peen while I brag about how I actually beat it.
thedjt
622
post=109552
I've never even expected much. Maybe a "YOU ARE HERO" message box is enough for me.
Now that is an idea...
deboo
85
In general, I've never liked dungeon crawlers...I always find dungeons to be the worst part of an RPG.
I think it just gets too tedious too quickly for me. I've never been bothered about 'getting to the next level,' i usually level up as little as i possibly have to.
I prefer the running around towns talking to people part of a game. I think i just prefer the variety that brings.
I can understand why people like them though.
I think it just gets too tedious too quickly for me. I've never been bothered about 'getting to the next level,' i usually level up as little as i possibly have to.
I prefer the running around towns talking to people part of a game. I think i just prefer the variety that brings.
I can understand why people like them though.
Ramshackin
1462
For me, the best part of a dungeon crawler is the rewards, loot, and progress. The game has to have a lot of cool items with unique effects. There is nothing more addicting than the rush of beating a previously impossible boss, getting a huge reward, and unlocking the next area.
I really like it when games show your progress. Things like what percent of enemies defeated, items found, and dungeons beat. It just makes the game feel so much bigger and encourages you to keep playing.
I really like it when games show your progress. Things like what percent of enemies defeated, items found, and dungeons beat. It just makes the game feel so much bigger and encourages you to keep playing.
lolzallen
337
@Feld
Hell yeah. My ears still hurt from the sound effects.
@boobledeboo
I see where you're coming from. Having variety is actually a crucial thing. However, there are a plethora of DCs that still have variety. Take Crystal Chronicles, Etrian Odyssey, or Stone Soup, for example.
@Ramshackin
I partially agree. In games like Castlevania, I was always motivated to keep playing even after beating the game just to find that one item that I'm missing or fully explore that one place that I nearly skipped.
Hell yeah. My ears still hurt from the sound effects.
@boobledeboo
I see where you're coming from. Having variety is actually a crucial thing. However, there are a plethora of DCs that still have variety. Take Crystal Chronicles, Etrian Odyssey, or Stone Soup, for example.
@Ramshackin
I partially agree. In games like Castlevania, I was always motivated to keep playing even after beating the game just to find that one item that I'm missing or fully explore that one place that I nearly skipped.
ferris95
50
I like dungeon crawling when it's done right, like in my favorite game Golden Sun 2. The dungeons all had unique enemies and great puzzles, especially in the lighthouses.
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