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SO HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR BACKSTORY?
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Yellow Magic
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CloseI've been thinking about making this topic for a while but I've been struggling with phrasing, but seeing as I'm pretty bored now I thought I might as well give it a go.
I finished Zone of the Enders: The Fist of Mars yesterday for the umpteenth time and one thing that struck me this time round was the colossal amount of background information concerning characters, mechs and past notable incidents,presented in the form of references accessible through the options menu. Granted a good amount of it was never mentioned in the game itself (FoM was merely a spin-off after all, a few plot elements in the original 'Zone of the Enders' game were included in one of the references for that reason I'm guessing), but reading about the motives of villains and tragic pasts of characters made their actions much more interesting. Additionally it made the dialogue in FoM feel more natural (or as natural as it could be, with a localisation that was pretty erratic in terms of quality, but hey it was a 2001 game from a franchise that no one seemed to care about because they stink - oops I am ranting sorry). Most importantly though, in my opinion, it prevented the need for flashbacks (a pet-peeve of mine - as they are (a) frequently done horribly in Japanese games and those inspired by them, i.e. amateur RPGs (weren't they a huge problem in Naufragar? I don't remember) and (b) illogical in terms of point-of-view, but I'm probably the only one who cares about that point).
So my question to you is: when it comes to character backstory, would you prefer references like the one in the aforementioned game which you can read in your own time, or are you more of a flashback person? Or perhaps you're a fan of villains that explain how they were abused as children while the protagonists either lie tied-up next to a tree or for some reason just stand around instead instead of beating the living shit out of them (in which case do not post here you're not welcome - just kidding)
p.s. please don't say well-done
I finished Zone of the Enders: The Fist of Mars yesterday for the umpteenth time and one thing that struck me this time round was the colossal amount of background information concerning characters, mechs and past notable incidents,presented in the form of references accessible through the options menu. Granted a good amount of it was never mentioned in the game itself (FoM was merely a spin-off after all, a few plot elements in the original 'Zone of the Enders' game were included in one of the references for that reason I'm guessing), but reading about the motives of villains and tragic pasts of characters made their actions much more interesting. Additionally it made the dialogue in FoM feel more natural (or as natural as it could be, with a localisation that was pretty erratic in terms of quality, but hey it was a 2001 game from a franchise that no one seemed to care about because they stink - oops I am ranting sorry). Most importantly though, in my opinion, it prevented the need for flashbacks (a pet-peeve of mine - as they are (a) frequently done horribly in Japanese games and those inspired by them, i.e. amateur RPGs (weren't they a huge problem in Naufragar? I don't remember) and (b) illogical in terms of point-of-view, but I'm probably the only one who cares about that point).
So my question to you is: when it comes to character backstory, would you prefer references like the one in the aforementioned game which you can read in your own time, or are you more of a flashback person? Or perhaps you're a fan of villains that explain how they were abused as children while the protagonists either lie tied-up next to a tree or for some reason just stand around instead instead of beating the living shit out of them (in which case do not post here you're not welcome - just kidding)
p.s. please don't say well-done
catmitts
4862
I don't really like either of them and kind of think stuff like that should just exist in the background without being openly articulated. Like you just see the effects of it all without having to deal with pedantic fake history garbage or flashbacks or whatever the fuck, which reduces the world and characters in the game from uh stuff which has the slight incomprehensibility of the real into just some boring list of completely meaningless details. It emphasizes how constructed everything is, I think, and it's basically about showing off how much work you've put into it when really your job as designer is to keep that shit to yourself and orchestrate it all as quietly as possible from behind the scenes. I guess an example of what I mean would be Frank in the film "Blue Velvet" where he obviously has some horrible stuff in his head but you only see glimpses of it, in is eyes or some sudden flash of anger or some seeming non-sequitor, and it makes it a lot more interesting and powerful than just some generic cause-and-effect backstory garbage.
I'm not really arguing that ignorance is bliss or whatever and that explaining things robs them of their power (the mirror stole my souuuuuul) but I do think it's important to recognise whether this kind of explicit worldbuilding stuff actually adds anything important to what you're trying to produce and whether giving the flying eyeball monsters on level 3 some elaborate backstory about genetic experimentation is going to add to their effect or reduce it. Uh, basically I think that doing worldbuilding and backstory right consists of just showing the player bits and pieces and little details to add up into a cohesive and hopefully compelling whole in the mind of the player. These bits and pieces might be part of a huge in-depth structure which you've mapped out in every detail but I think it's important to realise that sometimes revealing this structure comes at a cost of evocativeness (a word??) and overall effect.
I'm not really arguing that ignorance is bliss or whatever and that explaining things robs them of their power (the mirror stole my souuuuuul) but I do think it's important to recognise whether this kind of explicit worldbuilding stuff actually adds anything important to what you're trying to produce and whether giving the flying eyeball monsters on level 3 some elaborate backstory about genetic experimentation is going to add to their effect or reduce it. Uh, basically I think that doing worldbuilding and backstory right consists of just showing the player bits and pieces and little details to add up into a cohesive and hopefully compelling whole in the mind of the player. These bits and pieces might be part of a huge in-depth structure which you've mapped out in every detail but I think it's important to realise that sometimes revealing this structure comes at a cost of evocativeness (a word??) and overall effect.
sunshinesan
534
I like them to be entirely different games, or a huge chunks of the actual games. For example Fire Emblem 7 takes place a generation before Fire Emblem 6, and that kinda warrants it as a hugely elaborate backstory (I think)
I have more examples, but they do more with shows than games.
And I partially agree with catmitts. Sometimes a backstory is needed and is thoroughly thought out to fully accompany the main story. But if you are just throwing in it to illustrate some characteristics of your characters, than you're better off just using their demeanors in the main time plane. Even worse if you are just throwing it in there to show off your planning or prolong the game, etc.
I think the key here is involvement, if you are just as involved in the backstory as you are with the "main story", than that's what makes it not boring, uncalled for, etc.
Also, Dennis Hopper played the best villains ever.
I have more examples, but they do more with shows than games.
And I partially agree with catmitts. Sometimes a backstory is needed and is thoroughly thought out to fully accompany the main story. But if you are just throwing in it to illustrate some characteristics of your characters, than you're better off just using their demeanors in the main time plane. Even worse if you are just throwing it in there to show off your planning or prolong the game, etc.
I think the key here is involvement, if you are just as involved in the backstory as you are with the "main story", than that's what makes it not boring, uncalled for, etc.
Also, Dennis Hopper played the best villains ever.
Shinan
4314
well-done
I know it can be sort of annoying and out of place occasionally. But I like... it strewn out. Like the Audio logs in Bioshock or the documents in Resident Evil. Mass Effect also had a lot of interesting backstory in its Log thingie though I would have liked the ones that were spoken word to be able to be played while doing other stuff. I would have liked driving around on planets in my Vehicle Of Disaster while listening to a soothing voice talking about the history of the planet (and the universe). That's why I liked Bioshock's audio logs since you could play them while shooting bad guys.
If it's in a log like in Mass Effect it shouldn't be required reading though. It's great for maximum enjoyment but you should be able to basically understand all plot points without having to read through a Mammoth Encyclopedia of Backstory.
I also like things being slightly ambiguous so not everything has to be spelled out. Some things might just not be known. (except to the creator of course)
I know it can be sort of annoying and out of place occasionally. But I like... it strewn out. Like the Audio logs in Bioshock or the documents in Resident Evil. Mass Effect also had a lot of interesting backstory in its Log thingie though I would have liked the ones that were spoken word to be able to be played while doing other stuff. I would have liked driving around on planets in my Vehicle Of Disaster while listening to a soothing voice talking about the history of the planet (and the universe). That's why I liked Bioshock's audio logs since you could play them while shooting bad guys.
If it's in a log like in Mass Effect it shouldn't be required reading though. It's great for maximum enjoyment but you should be able to basically understand all plot points without having to read through a Mammoth Encyclopedia of Backstory.
I also like things being slightly ambiguous so not everything has to be spelled out. Some things might just not be known. (except to the creator of course)
Darken
3952
@catmitts: That is why I am skeptical about buying the next metroid game: Other M. I am sure it is good on its own but I heard a lot about how they're giving Samus a backstory. I feel that is just going to ruin Samus for me as a badass bounty hunter veteran who saw it all and needs no introduction. When everything about her is explained, there is not much to ponder about. It kinda seems pointless.
Common metroid rant aside, how much you want explain really depends on the audience you are shooting for. I like to keep stuff like surrounding countries, history, etc. really vague and just focus on the characters and situations they encounter... makes it more of an adventure. Some people like having everything explained, some people don't I guess.
Common metroid rant aside, how much you want explain really depends on the audience you are shooting for. I like to keep stuff like surrounding countries, history, etc. really vague and just focus on the characters and situations they encounter... makes it more of an adventure. Some people like having everything explained, some people don't I guess.
In a typical JRPG, I would ignore most backstory that isn't relevant to the plot or me getting badass items. However, if you're going for an epic with a fully fleshed-out world (like World of Warcraft) or a continuing series (like Final Fantasy) more information and lore about the world is fun for longtime fans.
For JRPG character backstories, it depends on the game. I prefer a game with realistic characters who have realistic motivations to one without, though. Flashbacks aren't bad if done tastefully. If it's a long flashback, make it controllable by the character. Don't take the controls from me for more than a couple minutes, max, and don't even take them for that long until I've been playing the game for at least 45 minutes.
For JRPG character backstories, it depends on the game. I prefer a game with realistic characters who have realistic motivations to one without, though. Flashbacks aren't bad if done tastefully. If it's a long flashback, make it controllable by the character. Don't take the controls from me for more than a couple minutes, max, and don't even take them for that long until I've been playing the game for at least 45 minutes.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
My dad (who is in his 50s, and is not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination, but plays a few of my games on occasions) could not stand the way the story was presented in, say, Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft - where huge portions of the story are not available in the game itself, and you have to spend 30 minutes reading the Warcraft 3 instruction manual or hours and hours looking up WoW information online in order to understand what's going on. I don't mind this approach, however, because A) I don't mind not really understanding what's going on, and B) I am hardcore enough to usually read everything anyway.
In constrast, both I and my dad really liked the way the story was presented in Final Fantasy 13 - where enough tidbits of the backstory are presented at relevant times to let you understand what's going on, but more details are available in the game's datalog for those are interested. One of the best things about the way FF13 does it is that new entries are added to this datalof throughout the game, after almost every major cut scene. Any time a person or event is casually mentioned for the first time, an entry will appear in the datalog giving more background info. This continues through the entire game. Personally, I found myself reading all of them for about the first 10% of the game, and then only looking up things that I found myself wondering about. My dad is about 25% of the way through the game and has read every single one so far.
Some people care about understanding the details, and some people want to get to the action. Obviously the best way is to give all the details during exciting cut scenes, so that there's never really a break from the action, but for things like descriptions of political climates or the origins of magic, this is sometimes too hard to do.
In constrast, both I and my dad really liked the way the story was presented in Final Fantasy 13 - where enough tidbits of the backstory are presented at relevant times to let you understand what's going on, but more details are available in the game's datalog for those are interested. One of the best things about the way FF13 does it is that new entries are added to this datalof throughout the game, after almost every major cut scene. Any time a person or event is casually mentioned for the first time, an entry will appear in the datalog giving more background info. This continues through the entire game. Personally, I found myself reading all of them for about the first 10% of the game, and then only looking up things that I found myself wondering about. My dad is about 25% of the way through the game and has read every single one so far.
Some people care about understanding the details, and some people want to get to the action. Obviously the best way is to give all the details during exciting cut scenes, so that there's never really a break from the action, but for things like descriptions of political climates or the origins of magic, this is sometimes too hard to do.
Crystalgate
694
I prefer to have whatever is needed to understand what's going on spelled out. The more in-dept, but not necessarily needed, stuff can be put in a journal or otherwise be a bit buried. If you do make part of the backstory buried, then I suggest you make sure that both what's on the surface and what's buried is interesting. You can make a character appear bland, but have interesting backstory if the player does a bit of digging, but chance is I won't dig at all.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Yeah, that's true. I only look up the things that interest me.
Like, in Warcraft 3, as the game opens, a character named Thrall is the warchief of the Orcish Horde, and yet openly opposes everything the Horde stands for. A lot of the game's plot revolves around how these conflicts play out, but it made for an incredibly interesting character, and made me wonder how came to be the warchief, so I read about his backstory in the manual. In fact, I even went to Borders and bought the novel about his ascent to power.
But in the same game, if you don't read the backstory in the manual, the Night Elves are presented simply as sleepy, peaceful forest denizens who are mad that they got invaded. If you do bother to read up on them, they actually have a pretty complex backstory involving their split from the High Elves and their battle against demonic corruption, but there's nothing in-game that made me want to look for it. There's no hook. So I just let that part of the game be boring.
Like, in Warcraft 3, as the game opens, a character named Thrall is the warchief of the Orcish Horde, and yet openly opposes everything the Horde stands for. A lot of the game's plot revolves around how these conflicts play out, but it made for an incredibly interesting character, and made me wonder how came to be the warchief, so I read about his backstory in the manual. In fact, I even went to Borders and bought the novel about his ascent to power.
But in the same game, if you don't read the backstory in the manual, the Night Elves are presented simply as sleepy, peaceful forest denizens who are mad that they got invaded. If you do bother to read up on them, they actually have a pretty complex backstory involving their split from the High Elves and their battle against demonic corruption, but there's nothing in-game that made me want to look for it. There's no hook. So I just let that part of the game be boring.
Well, I'm considering flashbacks because a number of background plot points are part of character's pasts are things they would never mention because a) they don't remember it properly anyway because of the nature of the event and b) they'll be scrutinized and c) it'll probably screw another character up in the head.
That's for CC, which even though it's a fangame I have put a lot of effort into putting in a detailed backstory, to make sure all the currently occurring events have motives, issues, consequences.
I have also put in an Information Terminal because I find with a lot of players is that they skip through the dialogue. It's not only for story, either, it's for where you've got to go next, which is really frustrating, but must, in my opinion, be compensated for.
In my other game series it's intentionally designed that all the 'backstory' is the past. It is slowly detailed through playing the stories and mentioned in dialogue and it is up to the player to piece it together. The important background conflicts occurred over 300 years ago, after all, and though the effects of it can be seen its a story of vengeance and fixing wrongs done by others so looking back isn't exactly a good idea.
All current stories play out as games- for example in the one I'm making for a competition, one character is at the 'midpoint' of his character story, which actually was begun in another story occurring a few months beforehand, and isn't tied up until later.
(They're all short games and I'm going to get them done :V)
That's for CC, which even though it's a fangame I have put a lot of effort into putting in a detailed backstory, to make sure all the currently occurring events have motives, issues, consequences.
I have also put in an Information Terminal because I find with a lot of players is that they skip through the dialogue. It's not only for story, either, it's for where you've got to go next, which is really frustrating, but must, in my opinion, be compensated for.
In my other game series it's intentionally designed that all the 'backstory' is the past. It is slowly detailed through playing the stories and mentioned in dialogue and it is up to the player to piece it together. The important background conflicts occurred over 300 years ago, after all, and though the effects of it can be seen its a story of vengeance and fixing wrongs done by others so looking back isn't exactly a good idea.
All current stories play out as games- for example in the one I'm making for a competition, one character is at the 'midpoint' of his character story, which actually was begun in another story occurring a few months beforehand, and isn't tied up until later.
(They're all short games and I'm going to get them done :V)
Mikemc
2101
Actually I prefer medium-rare myself.
Playable back stories are fun because you learn stuff without having to sit there and only watch it.
- Mike
Playable back stories are fun because you learn stuff without having to sit there and only watch it.
- Mike
TheDigitalMonk
1148
Definitely have MORE backstory to a character than is presented during the main storyline. Here's why:
1. It makes the game deeper because there's more than just what's on the surface, just like in real life.
2. It can be used as an incentive to do side-quests (you can have character backstory as a REWARD for sidequests instead of just more treasure or money or other worthless things). This will also keep your story from getting bogged down.
1. It makes the game deeper because there's more than just what's on the surface, just like in real life.
2. It can be used as an incentive to do side-quests (you can have character backstory as a REWARD for sidequests instead of just more treasure or money or other worthless things). This will also keep your story from getting bogged down.
MKID232
435
I dunno. I feel that if you decide to answer all the main story's unanswered questions post-game, you did something wrong.
Pasty
908
i prefer my backstory out of the way. seriously i try as much as possible to cram that stuff into VIRTUAL BOOKSHELF and i don't regard expository history as something a player should have to sit through when that time could be better used for characterization.
Adun
0
Key word being 'involvement' and 'playability' mentioned several times already.
I'd rather have sequelz, prequelz and gaidenz oh my! as opposed to having to do a lot of reading. Barring that, just let the player pace it through interactive objects in the game world like historical books, crystals, spheres, cows, or whatever.
I'd rather have sequelz, prequelz and gaidenz oh my! as opposed to having to do a lot of reading. Barring that, just let the player pace it through interactive objects in the game world like historical books, crystals, spheres, cows, or whatever.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
For some people, there's such a thing as too many cut scenes and too many flashbacks.
For almost everyone, this line is drawn somewhere before you get to Xenosaga. But for some people, even Chrono Trigger has too many cut scenes and flashbacks. 3 minutes without gameplay is too long.
However, for the most part I'm fine with not being able to please everyone. Everyone draws the line at a different point. Some of them will get over it because it's close enough to what they like, and the others can play a different game.
For almost everyone, this line is drawn somewhere before you get to Xenosaga. But for some people, even Chrono Trigger has too many cut scenes and flashbacks. 3 minutes without gameplay is too long.
However, for the most part I'm fine with not being able to please everyone. Everyone draws the line at a different point. Some of them will get over it because it's close enough to what they like, and the others can play a different game.
Billwilliams
1159
The backstory should not be critical to gameplay. Nice to have but don't force it down the player's throat.
The problem is that you will always think that your great epic story that you poured your heart and soul into is "the shit." Just remember that your game is more important than your story. If it's not go write a novel.
The problem is that you will always think that your great epic story that you poured your heart and soul into is "the shit." Just remember that your game is more important than your story. If it's not go write a novel.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Eh. There is definitely something to be said for games as a storytelling medium. They have the potential to connect to the player in a way that a book or movie cannot. If done well, a game will make you feel like things that happen to the main character are happening to you personally. This is why even poorly written SNES and PSX games, with their abominable translations and stilted dialogue and idiotic plot twists, can move you to tears.
But story and backstory are not the same thing. Backstory is, by definition, not immediately relevant. So it's told in half-assed ways, or via flashbacks. And thus, the lack of interactivity is often what makes it harder for the player to connect to it. You no longer feel like you're there.
But story and backstory are not the same thing. Backstory is, by definition, not immediately relevant. So it's told in half-assed ways, or via flashbacks. And thus, the lack of interactivity is often what makes it harder for the player to connect to it. You no longer feel like you're there.
