TANKING FOR HEALTH AND... WELL, HEALTH

author=Feldschlacht IV

For instance, Garr in Breath of Fire III is clearly meant to be a tank, but because he doesn't have access to abilities that allow him to draw fire onto himself he isn't really any use to you; lots of games do this and it just leads to useless characters that people won't use.

Well there are the Formations that determine who gets hit the most times; the Attack formation has the point character targeted the most.

Also Peco is the best tank in the game, not so much Garr. People like to ignore the onion since he's silly as fuck lookin' and he starts off at level 1, but when you realize he has the highest HP and Defense growth in the game by far (like, in the hundreds), built in Regen, and you can apprentice him under Fahl to exaggerate all that even further, well, then shit gets real.

I put Peco in the front of the party and he soaked up da hits like mad yo

ALSO realize that in addition to the above, his Counter rate is the highest in the game. So theoretically you can put him in the front and set him to do nothing and he'll still be dishing out damage almost every time he's damaged.

yes

See! I told you. Nobody respects Peco for how he looks. But he's one of the best characters in the game and better at what he does than Garr; hell, his AP/MP is even ridiculous as well, so you can give him hard hitting expensive skills like Super Combo and Triple Blow with impunity.

author=Craze
so does BoF just recycle the same character archetypes every single game, down to their looks?

Ryu and Nina are spiritual (and literal, in the case of BoF I through III, IV and V are in their own universes/timelines) reincarnations of themselves. The tiger dude looks familiar because as you know they're an entire race of them, and actually everyone in the BoF universe (even IV, although this was downplayed in that game) belongs to a certain race or 'clan'.

You played IV first, but IV is honestly the oddball when it comes to the setting of the BoF series because it doesn't take place in the same universe as the first three, but it borrows the same concepts.

Craze convinced me to post these. They come from a very streamlined game that reduces variables and randomization to a very limited degree. Outside of a threat system, all randomization is user-generated (e.g. evasion and miss rates do not exist unless an ability does so).

These are not all of the characters, just the ones related to tanking. Note that the only costs skills have is turn cooldowns.

Terminology:
PWR = effectiveness based on character's innate PWR.
SPD = action priority
CD = cooldown
Summon Effect = the main character has the ability to summon allies. Summoned allies produce a special effect when they enter the field.
Threat = this game has threat but it's a bit different here. In most games threat is based on the character but in this one it is based on the 'slot' the character occupies. Summoning a tank in the place of a nuker is a very valid strategy, as a result.

Sage
Powers
Iron Fist (PWR: 100%/SPD: 4/Effect: Atk., bypass DR/EVA, Blunt type) CD: 0
Defender (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Enc., Take damage and negative states for target ally, * rounds) CD: 0
Iron Will (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Enc., Negative states do not alter ally performance, five rounds) CD: 1
Blessing (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Enc., Reduces damage by 40%, five rounds) CD: 1
Baptism (PWR: 300%/SPD: 5/Effect: Heal, removes all negative states and heals target) CD: 2
Golden Palm (PWR: 150%/SPD:1/Effect: Atk., bypass DR/EVA, +100% skill PWR per foe state, clears states, Blunt type) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Guardianship (Can use Defender immediately)

Most tanks have less than exceptional damage output, but it does not matter much for Sage, as he can cover an ally with high threat. He is extremely good at defending against negative states, which are a big threat in this game.

Lucia
Powers
Frostbite (PWR: 100%/SPD: 3/Effect: Atk., strikes other enemies at 50% PWR, Ice type) CD: 0
Enchanted Mist (PWR: N/A/SPD: 7/Effect: Enc., enemy will miss 40% of the time, three rounds) CD: 0
Frozen Armor (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Enc., Reduce dmg by 20%, striking enemies have SPD-3 next round, three rounds) CD: 1
Deep Freeze (PWR: 200%//SPD: 3/Effect: Atk., bypass DR, Ice type) CD: 1
Stasis (PWR: N/A/SPD: 1/Effect: Atk., freezes enemy in place for two rounds, they cannot be damaged or affected by states) CD: 2
Reflection (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Enc., half of damage dealt by enemies is reflected back upon them for one round) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Cooldown (Ally with the least HP receives -1 to their CDs)

Lucia is your ice mage, but is also very good at playing offensive defense.

Elesti
Powers
Lightning Strike (PWR: 75%/SPD: 6/Effect: Atk., two strikes, random targets, Volt type, user evasion 25%) CD: 0
Whispering Wind (PWR:N/A/ Effect: Spc., transfer half of threat to target ally) CD: 0
Shocker (PWR: 75%/SPD: 9/Effect: Atk/Hex., Shock DoT 75% PWR, five rounds, Volt type) CD: 1
Haste (PWR: N/A/SPD: 4/Effect: Enc., SPD+3 to target ally, evasion 25%, five rounds) CD: 1
Nirvana Assault (PWR: 75%/SPD: 4/Effect: Atk., five strikes, Volt type, user evasion 35%) CD: 2
Paradox (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Enc., ally's used Power this round is not subject to CD) CD: 3
Summon Effect: With the Wind (SPD+2 to all allies for one round)

The game's archetypal dodge tank. Whispering Wind is very useful. She can generate quite a bit of threat on her own, and it reduces the stress on her.

Khan
Powers
Life Wave (PWR: 75%/SPD: 6/Effect: Heal, all allies) CD: 0
Purification Blade (PWR: 100%/SPD: 4/Effect: Atk., Ether type, bypass DR/EVA) CD: 0
Regenerate (PWR: 100%/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Enc./Heal, constant healing over time, five rounds) CD: 1
Believer (PWR: N/A/SPD: 4/Effect: Enc., recovery power of ally is increased by 50%, ten rounds) CD: 1
Nullification (PWR: N/A/SPD: 8/Effect: Hex, PWR = 0 this round) CD: 2
Exorcism (PWR: 450%/SPD: 1/Effect: Atk., Ether type, bypass DR/EVA) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Puritan (Life Wave cast upon entering the field)

The game's paladin type. Healtank. Regenerate stacks with Believer. He is not great at drawing attacks but plays very well with others.

Faraday
Powers
Phalanx (PWR: 100%/SPD: Always first/Effect: Spc., counterattacks when struck this turn, bypass DR/EVA) CD: 0
Countershift (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Spc., damage type of Phalanx changes [Blunt, Slashing, Piercing) CD: 0
Martyr (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Spc., steal half of threat from target ally) CD: 1
Pacify (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Hex, outgoing damage reduced by 40%, five rounds) CD: 1
Ward (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Enc., no states can be applied upon the target ally, five rounds) CD: 2
Valiant (PWR: N/A/SPD: 2/Effect: Enc., gives 1% additional PWR for each two points of threat, five rounds) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Reserve Reverie (Replaced ally is fully healed and has all negative states removed)

Faraday can only deal damage by counterattacking. Thankfully she has the tools to deal out quite a bit of damage and defend allies if the player plays their cards right.

Belta
Powers
Vitality Drain (PWR: 100%/SPD: 5/Effect: Atk., half of drained damage returned to HP, Shadow type) CD: 0
Life Link (PWR: N/A:/SPD: 5/Effect: Enc., healing Belta receives is also received by ally, five rounds) CD: 0
Parasite (PWR: 50%/SPD: 3/Effect: Hex/Enc., constant damage/healing over time, 50% PWR, five rounds, Shadow type) CD: 1
Decrepify (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Hex., SPD-2, incoming damage increased by 25%, five rounds) CD: 1
Power Drain (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Hex/Enc., Enemy loses 25% of their power, Belta gains that power, five rounds) CD: 2
Devil's Smile (PWR: N/A/SPD: 7/Effect: Spc., user's threat is returned to zero) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Demon Graces (Immune to all damage and negative states for the first round)

Belta is a draintank, Life Link is her primary way of protecting others. But consider Devil's Smile for a moment. It might not seem like much for tanking, but it is actually the most effective threat management/tanking skill in the game. Remember, threat is based on the slot the character occupies, not the character themselves.

Xanadu
Powers
Mimicry (PWR: N/A/SPD: 1/Effect: Enc., Replaces Mimicry Power with the first CD: 0 Power of mimed ally) CD: 0
Magic Lust (PWR: N/A/SPD: 6/Effect: Spc., removes all positive states) CD: 0
Dazzling Lights (PWR: N/A/SPD: 3/Effect: Hex, 25% Miss Rate upon all enemies, three rounds) CD: 1
Diamond Skin (PWR: N/A/SPD: 2/Effect: Enc., +50% MAXHP) CD: 1
Duplication Matrix (PWR: N/A/SPD: 3/Effect: Spc., target ally receives all states Xanadu has) CD: 2
Dimension Door (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Hex, the enemy is removed from the field for two rounds) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Doppleganger (Select the ally to mime the Summon Effect of)

Xanadu is a very 'meta' character, and has very little/no damage output. Contrast him with other characters I have listed here and see what he can do, though. =)

You want to have a fun read-up on tanking: the MMO City of Heroes has one of the and most specialized tanking systems in any game, if you want someone to tank you found a "Tanker" class character.

http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Tanker

The primary Defensive sets are:

Dark Armor: Focuses on lower enemy accuracy or causing status effects to them (Fear so they hit less, etc), healing yourself by sucking life force from nearby enemies, and offers better elemental defense and defense from the rare damage type Psionic.

Fiery Aura: Focuses less on the pure damage reduction to keep a higher aggro rating by causing more damage to surrounding foes and managing how they move by setting them on fire.

Ice Armor: Protection based on defense instead of resist (which equates to dodge instead of damage reduction) - increasing your maximum "healthy" using layers of ice and making foes slower and hurt less by the cold air and icy protection and to mitigate when that 200 HP punch isn't turned into a zero (by being a miss), but instead is an actual 200 HP hit!

Invulnerability: Highest standard damage reduction against the most common damage types, and most skills are more effective by keeping the Invul tanker surrounded by foes (main skills grants extra defense for each foe in melee range, etc) - absolutely no psionic protection!

Stone Armor: All around average - uses a combination of defense and resist to reduce damage from all sources. Grants some advanced generation of health and better status protection, but slows the tank down so it's harder to run around and grab aggro from adds.

Willpower: Better status protection and some advanced regeneration based on how many foes you're fighting, but the defense and resist bonuses are less, this is your typical "tough guy" type of tank.

Due to the structure of the game, tanking was more important in CoH than any other game I've played.

But each Tanker class had at least one major weakness, either a very particular status effect they didn't resist, or a lower status resist (ie. if you get put to sleep 5 times you can only defense against the first 4 until the first wears off) or lacking against one particular damage type (Psionic most often) - or they were good against everything but not great.

Tanks need to have at least one or two mechanisms to make them vulnerable - don't give these to a lot of foes, and make it obvious when they do have them - makes them immediate targets for removal either through another means (debuffs or status effects) or require the player to adopt different strategies to cope with the situation (damage bursts to remove or a stronger character with lesser tanking abilities to keep the hate of that one while the tank handles the rest.)

For Example:

Imagine one character is designed to be a tank and depends on keeping appropriate defensive skills 'active' to protect against damage types (versus just having a crap-ton of HP or defense on armor) and using aggro mechanisms (including limited use "OH SHIT" buttons) - but certain enemies have skills that can turn off those defenses, creating a period of time where your tank is weaker until they've spent a turn or two reactivating them. This makes those enemies more effective for the tank to NOT handle or to synergize with their team and have them taken care of in another way (see: characters-who-are-not-tanks.)

Also imagine there are only a couple ways to directly heal your characters in combat - pure "heal spam" is removed! Another aspect then becomes managing your resources before they run out - and you can't suddenly refill your stats with items - you can't use items! And while you had some healing "OH SHIT" buttons if you chose, those are on a long timer and you needed to span their use out.

The tank suddenly becomes important AND a focal point for combat. Your focus revolves around managing your enemies so each class can do what they specialize in (either by design or by your choice.) What enemies can do becomes more than just "Which one should I spam attack against first?"

Summary:

The point is tanks should be powerful, but need to have natural enemies to neutralize them somehow (and ways for you to counter that neutralization - mix up "best" ways for with a variety of enemies to make varying tactics.)

And do not ignore the aspect of how the tank plays - what's involved managing aggro and defense? Are you an offensive class as well? Is it frustrating because the way you want to play the character is blocked by need (ie. you want to smash faces with all your cool sounding "Smash Face" attacks - but you can't spare a turn from keeping a different game mechanics satisfied?)

author=Karsuman
Craze convinced me to post these. They come from a very streamlined game that reduces variables and randomization to a very limited degree. Outside of a threat system, all randomization is user-generated (e.g. evasion and miss rates do not exist unless an ability does so).

These are not all of the characters, just the ones related to tanking. Note that the only costs skills have is turn cooldowns.

(Lengthy Quote)

Wow, this sounds very fun! This is essentially my favorite type of game that I want to make/play. I want an RPG where combat completely revolves around the actions a character can perform and the way in which the player uses them. As much as I love Final Fantasy, it's really fun to get away from the Attack, Magic, Defend, Item mantra.

Each character listed is very interesting! Would you be willing to post more from other types other than tank? :D

ashriot: Sure.

Summoning Powers
Rapid Summoning (PWR: N/A/SPD: Instant/Effect: Spc., swaps ally, PWR-50%/HP-50% first turn) CD: 1
Chaotic Summoning (PWR: N/A/SPD: Instant/Effect: Spc., swaps in random ally to replace target) CD: 1
Ritual of Summoning (PWR: N/A/SPD: Instant/Effect: Spc., swaps ally) CD: 2
Warped Summoning (PWR: N/A/SPD: Instant/Effect: Spc., swaps ally, -1 CD to other Mortana Powers) CD: 3
Emergency Summoning (PWR: 100%/SPD: Instant/Effect: Spc./Heal, swaps ally in with healing) CD: 3
Greater Summoning (PWR: N/A/SPD: Instant/Effect: Spc., can swap multiple allies at once) CD: 4

These are from Mortana, the harbinger. Mortana is unique from other characters in that can customize her skillsets a bit. She comes with Ritual of Summoning and can pick up to one other Summoning skill.

I would post her other abilities, but I never finished them!

Summoning skills activate Summoning Effects. Greater Summoning can activate multiple Summoning Effects at once.

Note that you can use a Summoning to swap characters between slots, but cannot do so at the same time as swapping in a character.

Other notes: If Mortana is downed for too long, it is automatic game over because the characters souls' are attached to her.

Juno Powers
Mark (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Hex, Increases incoming damage by 40%, three rounds) CD: 0
Quick Exit (PWR: N/A/SPD: 1/Effect: Spc., swap out to another ally and activate their summoning effect) CD: 0
Snipe (PWR: 250%/SPD: 1/Effect: Atk., Piercing type, +50% critical hit chance) CD: 1
Volley (PWR: 100%/SPD: 3/Effect: Atk., hits all, Piercing type) CD: 1
Succubus Needle (PWR: 1%/SPD: 5/Effect: Atk/Hex, confusion, if affected struck state fails, three rounds, Piercing type) CD: 2
Prodigy (PWR: N/A/SPD: Always last/Effect: Spc., Duplicates action of target ally) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Ambush (PWR +50% first round)

Juno is an ambush attacker with serious damage potential. She has two powerful actions in Snipe and Volley, but cannot spam the due to them both having CD:1. Prodigy and Quick Exit are as powerful as they sound.

Melior
Powers
First Aid (PWR: 150%/SPD: 6/Effect: Heal, heals target ally) CD: 0
Hippocratic Oath (PWR: N/A/SPD: 3/Effect: Enc., ally is healed by 100% PWR when user casts Heal powers, ten rounds) CD: 0
Placebo (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Heal, removes all negative states from target ally, +10% PWR next round per state) CD: 1
Life Giver (PWR: 100%/SPD: 3/Effect: Heal, brings back a downed ally) CD: 1
Preventive Medicine (PWR: 150%/SPD: 7/Effect: Spc., ally raises at start of next round when slain, five rounds) CD-2
Breakthrough (PWR: N/A/SPD: Always first/Effect: Spc., activates all Summon Effects at once) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Prayer (Hippocratic Oath on ally with highest threat)

Melior's most notable quirk is that he cannot do any damage at all, but he can heal pretty damn well. Hippocratic Oath automatically takes effect whenever Melior casts First Aid, Placebo or Life Giver.

Shefany
Powers
Fairy Fire (PWR: 125%/SPD: 2/Effect: Atk., Fire type) CD: 0
Word of Recall (PWR: N/A/SPD: Always first/Effect: Spc., SPD+2, ally removed from the battle after they use their Power) CD: 0
Inferno (PWR: 275%/SPD: 4/Effect: Atk., strikes random target) CD: 1
Empower (PWR: N/A/SPD: 6/Effect: Enc., increases PWR by 40%, five rounds) CD: 1
Manna Lust (PWR: 200%/SPD: 6/Effect: Spc./Heal, removes all positive states from the enemy, heals user) CD: 2
Burning Hail (PWR: 250%/SPD: 2/Effect: Atk., hits all, Fire type) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Fire Starter (Fairy Fire is cast on a random enemy, produces no threat)

Undeniably good at dealing damage, Shefany the fairy has to watch her threat closely. Word of Recall allows her to remove herself or an ally from the field (albeit it is more effective when used on an ally, as their skill takes place first). Manna Lust is a very powerful self-heal, but she is still not very durable and it has a high CD, so it is not too reliable.

Velgara
Powers
Giant Swing (PWR: 50%/SPD: 3/Effect: Atk., hits all, Slashing type) CD: 0
Venom Fang (PWR: 75%/SPD: 5/Effect: Atk./Hex, Bleeding DOT 50% PWR, five rounds, Slashing type) CD: 0
Terrify (PWR: N/A/SPD: 9/Effect: Hex, SPD-4, five rounds) CD: 1
Frenzy (PWR: N/A/SPD: Always last/Effect: Enc., increases target PWR by 60% and incoming damage by 30%, five rounds) CD: 1
Virus (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Hex, Virus DOT 75% PWR, cannot be removed, halves healing effectiveness, five rounds) CD: 2
Vile Thorns (PWR: 75%/SPD: 5/Effect: Atk., SPD advantage over enemy's action increases the # of attacks, Slashing type) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Supernatural Fervor (-2 CD of a Power used on the first turn)

If this was an MMO, this guy would be the DPSer. He can stack poisons and Vile Thorns becomes pretty amusing in combination with Terrify. Gotta be careful, however, he will generate tons of threat and he has no defensive options.

Astrid
Powers
Emergency Care (PWR: 100%/SPD: Always first/Effect: Heal, heals target ally) CD: 0
Ammo Swap (PWR: N/A/SPD: 5/Effect: Atk., change selected ammo type ) CD:0
Sibyl Nodarch Mk 3 (PWR: 175%/SPD: 3/Effect: Atk., shoots selected ammo type) CD: 1
Support Fire (PWR: N/A/SPD: 1/Effect: Enc., -1 CD cost for actions, three turns) CD: 1
Tranquilizer (PWR: 1%/SPD: 3/Effect: Atk./Hex, put enemy to sleep for two rounds, being struck awakens, but +25% PWR) CD: 2
Wild Hunt (PWR: N/A/SPD: 3/Effect. Hex, bypass DR/evasion, ignore resistances, three rounds) CD: 3
Summon Effect: Preparation (Free opportunity to swap ammo)

Astrid is a specialist and can take particularly good advantage of enemy weaknesses. She can also heal, stop an enemy in their tracks, and make it so allies do not need to worry about enemy resistance, either. Support Fire allows people to use CD 1 skills in rapid succession but can be easily squandered if used poorly.




And that's the rest of them. For now, anyway.

Very cool, Karsuman! I'm eager for more information about the game :)

An idea approaches! Command?

Summoner Tank
This tank summons minions into battle: generic soldiers, monsters, elementals, espers, shadow copies of himself, or anything else that the enemies can target. The minions you can summon are not anywhere near as useful in combat as your main party members. They might actually not even be able to perform any actions at all, or they might use some sort of weak damage or weak healing or weak tanking skills. They might be controllable, but are more likely automated. Once these minions are summoned, they will be added to your party until the battle ends or until they die, whichever comes first. (In rare cases, they may persist after battle, but overall this probably doesn't work very well.)

And since they're in your party, enemies who use single-target attacks to attack random allies will sometimes target these minions. If the minions have a provoke skill, then they are far more effective at taking hits. But if the enemies use area attacks, they are far less effective. It's probably good to give enemies *some* area attacks so that these minions aren't ridiculously overpowered, especially if they can provoke.

There should probably be a limit to the number of minions you can summon at once. Maybe just one. Maybe two or three. Maybe the number increases as the summoner's stats increase: higher charisma means more minions. Maybe you get more minions after certain plot events or sidequests. Having more minions than real party members probably isn't a good idea near the beginning of the game, unless your number of real party members is very low (1 or 2 real members). A team of 4 playable characters and 8 minions can be pretty overwhelming when the player is still getting used to the battle system, and feels extremely powerful, so it's best left until late in the game. You also need to decide if the minions can level up. Do they have their own XP that they earn if they survive battles? Is their level based on the summoner's level?

diablo II has classes other than barbarian...?