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HELP SAYA IMPROVE HER PIXEL ART
Posts
Feldschlacht IV
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Closeauthor=Darken
guys i have something to confess... I like Korn's Word Up better than Cameo's original
oh g...o...d...
Illustrious
520
People take it personally when the art they care about is being altered.
Like I can go too far if I say editing art in general offends me when I actually have edited rmvx tiles myself among other things. Still there are things I care about enough to not want to see altered at all. For me, art from my favorite jrpg games may fall into that category of things. But yeah, I understand even I do not strictly adhere to my moral high ground. I admit it's an issue of whether I care about it or not. Universally, I will always dislike art I perceive as a total copy or something or somehting that comes too close. Haven't thought once to kill myself over it though.
Like I can go too far if I say editing art in general offends me when I actually have edited rmvx tiles myself among other things. Still there are things I care about enough to not want to see altered at all. For me, art from my favorite jrpg games may fall into that category of things. But yeah, I understand even I do not strictly adhere to my moral high ground. I admit it's an issue of whether I care about it or not. Universally, I will always dislike art I perceive as a total copy or something or somehting that comes too close. Haven't thought once to kill myself over it though.
author=Illustrious
editing art in general offends me
If the editing of art did not exist art itself would not literally exist.
Illustrious
520
author=Feldschlacht IV
If the editing of art did not exist art itself would not literally exist.
And to whatever extent this is true, I am not bothered by most things I see created. If I am, I certainly would write that art/book/movie/song off. Most of the time it's different enough for me. I had something to say because in the case of the SD3 rip tracing, it did not feel different enough. She has come far enough with it I can say I am starting to like it.
author=Illustrious
If I am, I certainly would write that art/book/movie/song off.
So basically you're saying that if you found out that your favorite song/music/movie/etc was a heavily inspired version of something else before it (hint: 80% of all artistic expression. Probably some of your favorite shit as well) you MAGICALLY wouldn't find it enjoyable anymore? It would MAGICALLY be ugly/unlistenable/gross?
That's silly as fuck.
Illustrious
520
Sees original work first and knockoff later:
Well yeah, if I am basically getting the same thing as I experienced before and already liked. If it falls into realm of not being different enough, why would I care? Something that evolved to become enough of a new thing may get my attention.
Sees knockoff first and later finds original work:
Well, I understand what you say is a bit different where you see the new art first and the old art later. Still the level of difference is relevant. If it were like the exact same thing, I would probably think the new creation was pointless. I would likely gravitate to the old piece because it deserves the credit, and hell I am not getting anything different from this copycat thing anyway.
Heart of the issue is whether its different at all or a copycat. No one is wholly original, similarities between art is natural. Inspiration and education from art is natural. Some things are entirely plagaristic. With that being said, I hope you have a different idea of what I mean.
Well yeah, if I am basically getting the same thing as I experienced before and already liked. If it falls into realm of not being different enough, why would I care? Something that evolved to become enough of a new thing may get my attention.
Sees knockoff first and later finds original work:
Well, I understand what you say is a bit different where you see the new art first and the old art later. Still the level of difference is relevant. If it were like the exact same thing, I would probably think the new creation was pointless. I would likely gravitate to the old piece because it deserves the credit, and hell I am not getting anything different from this copycat thing anyway.
Heart of the issue is whether its different at all or a copycat. No one is wholly original, similarities between art is natural. Inspiration and education from art is natural. Some things are entirely plagaristic. With that being said, I hope you have a different idea of what I mean.
ElectricalKat
254
author=Illustrious
As someone who has been around this scene basically since it first existed, I probably can be quick to assume Saya intends to also stick around for years honing her skills. She may or may not. Possibly, I am making a tall order for someone who really is just working in rpgmaker/pixel art casually. It depends what she wants to gain by making original graphics. It can make sense she is learning something about pixel art by tracing, but I just would not include this kind of material in an actual project. If the goal is present these graphics for an audience or to make this stand out among games that use rips, it probably will not go too far on that end.
I should mention that I didn't read Saya's post within the Screenshots topic before now. Yes, I can see why everyone thinks that she wants to use these exact graphics in her game, and I can understand why you're taking this position. It was probably a serious miscommunication or misunderstanding on her or our part...moving on.
Anyway, I agree with you about potential players recognizing those graphics, and it would apply to more people than only us inside the RPG Maker community. If Saya had released a game using those graphics to the outside world, she would have likely been called out for it, and received a much...harsher response.
I don't believe it was her intent to imply that she created all of those tiles on her own, just that we - as people who have played so many games, and created things of our own in the past - kind of assumed this (and I probably would have as well), since she didn't provide enough details beforehand. It isn't a tall order to ask for an "original" aesthetic (I placed that in quotes because the word original is relative - both you and Mog have debated that well enough), but we are all influenced from somewhere, whether we realize it or not.
If Saya does stay as you mention, and continues to practice her work, I'm confident that she will eventually develop her own style from this experimenting.
author=Kat
If Saya had released a game using those graphics to the outside world, she would have likely been called out for it, and received a much...harsher response.
I don't think people, as in, non game makers like us, care nearly as much about this issue like we do. After all, people liked Exit Fate.
I am not saying that Saya should not have her own original style. I'm just saying that...it's not really a big deal either way.
Illustrious
520
author=Darken
guys i have something to confess... I like Korn's Word Up better than Cameo's original
Blasphemy! This philistine will have none of it.
P.S. I love the Cameo version of the song.
Perihelion
665
There's nothing wrong with copying existing art for learning as long as you don't try to pass it off as your own and don't try to use it commercially. She neglected to mention she used SD3 as a basis, but I don't think the intention was to pretend she made it from scratch. Since it was most likely just an oversight, we should probably stop fussing over it and get back on topic.
Saya, the main trick for palettes is to use one shadow color for all of the ramps. You can make adjustments for lightness or whatever as necessary, but having similar colors will make it look unified. Also, for internal anti-aliasing, let me reuse a quick edit I did for someone else a couple days ago:
Look at the third frame. See how I used the middle shade to transition between colors? This makes it look a lot smoother. You want smooth curves and smooth transitions between shades if you want your art to look refined.
Saya, the main trick for palettes is to use one shadow color for all of the ramps. You can make adjustments for lightness or whatever as necessary, but having similar colors will make it look unified. Also, for internal anti-aliasing, let me reuse a quick edit I did for someone else a couple days ago:
Look at the third frame. See how I used the middle shade to transition between colors? This makes it look a lot smoother. You want smooth curves and smooth transitions between shades if you want your art to look refined.
Tracing teaches you jack shit. It is OK to try to emulate someone else's style, especially at the beginning when you don't know how to draw too well and you need to learn the basics. But copy-pasting works of others will lead you nowhere. When I was still learning pixelart I used to rip A LOT of graphics from various games to use as reference. I experimented with various palettes and styles until I developed my own. You won't learn anything by, god, I hate that word, TRACING.
You're saying you don't know much about palettes and that you're a beginner in this whole pixelart thing. If so, then don't attempt to make a whole set of custom graphics for a game in some crazy resolution. Wait till you're better at it and really, stick to 320x240. If you want to make the game in XP/VX, then simply double the size of your graphics, but with no filters. And remember - no one was born with mad pixelz skillz. When I first started I knew nothing about colors. It took me years to wrap my head around this whole RGB business. Take it slow and develop your skills, but not through tracing, for Christ's sake.
Oh, and calling your traced image an original creation is bad. It's no different than plagiarism, it's rude, and don't do it again. Like, ever.
You're saying you don't know much about palettes and that you're a beginner in this whole pixelart thing. If so, then don't attempt to make a whole set of custom graphics for a game in some crazy resolution. Wait till you're better at it and really, stick to 320x240. If you want to make the game in XP/VX, then simply double the size of your graphics, but with no filters. And remember - no one was born with mad pixelz skillz. When I first started I knew nothing about colors. It took me years to wrap my head around this whole RGB business. Take it slow and develop your skills, but not through tracing, for Christ's sake.
Oh, and calling your traced image an original creation is bad. It's no different than plagiarism, it's rude, and don't do it again. Like, ever.
author=Jude
There's a difference between derivative works and blatant rip-offs, Feldschlacht.
Of course; it goes without saying that;
author=Peri
There's nothing wrong with copying existing art for learning as long as you don't try to pass it off as your own and don't try to use it commercially.
author=DE
Oh, and calling your traced image an original creation is bad. It's no different than plagiarism, it's rude, and don't do it again. Like, ever.
I'm not suggesting she makes a living off this nor claim it as her own. I'm just saying that as a start it isn't bad.
Agreed with what DE said. Definitely try at a lower resolution first, otherwise you'll trying too hard to fill up space and it's much harder to pixel at that resolution. A low res RMXP/RMVX can certainly be done, I did that for Azulea.
http://rpgmaker.net/games/1911/images/14470/
Have a bunch of tutorials.
http://www.derekyu.com/?page_id=218
http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/photoshop_pixelart_tutorials.php
http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/shading.html
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixels/tutorials.asp
http://pixel-zone.rpgdx.net/shtml/tutorials.shtml
http://rpgmaker.net/games/1911/images/14470/
I'm not suggesting she makes a living off this nor claim it as her own. I'm just saying that as a start it isn't bad.It is both bad and unnecessary to learn. Referencing, studying, that is what you should do, not tracing. This is why art teachers have you drawing still lives first, not tracing great art pieces.
Have a bunch of tutorials.
http://www.derekyu.com/?page_id=218
http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/photoshop_pixelart_tutorials.php
http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/shading.html
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixels/tutorials.asp
http://pixel-zone.rpgdx.net/shtml/tutorials.shtml
Saya
30
author=DE
Oh, and calling your traced image an original creation is bad. It's no different than plagiarism, it's rude, and don't do it again. Like, ever.
I was never trying to pass off the tracing of SD3 as my own work straight from scratch. Granted, I was a bit vague in my terminology, so I apologize for that. So, now that we've FINALLY gotten that out of the way, can you all stop treating me like a criminal and get down to business?
As for making the game in low resolution: I hate to say it, but having the wrong resolution REALLY REALLY bothers me. It's like an obsessive compulsive habit of mine to have exactly the right resolution. For this reason, I was considering using RM2k3, but I feel guilty using abandonware when I can be using the legal product.
Thanks for the tutorials Ocean! I'll be sure to check those out.
Anyhow. I've moved onto this right here:
It looks a bit flat right now, I need to implement shadows and get the cliffs to loop better horizontally in some places. Still, the palette doesn't clash so much anymore, although I'm considering recoloring the dirt tiles (and I still need to break up the grass-grid).
And this is just for fun:
Using Rudra as a reference, I drew a balcony. Do the shadows and dithering look right?
the grid on the tiles is so obvious :C
I mean if you look at it here
What I would suggest is making all directions first and see if they seamlessly blend in together. It's really hard for me to explain! I mean if you look over here (I really hope this is a good example XD) The grid isn't really visible or barely noticeable
I mean if you look at it here
What I would suggest is making all directions first and see if they seamlessly blend in together. It's really hard for me to explain! I mean if you look over here (I really hope this is a good example XD) The grid isn't really visible or barely noticeable
Try making you grass tiles 128x128 when first spriting them. It's a little easier to avoid tiling that way. Might take up a bit more of the tileset, but it looks better. (+doesn't really matter in XP)
Umm, I also recommend changing a bit the palette... The browns are somehow annoying me greatly. But it's not bad. Also, the stones are REALLY tiled. I see the same rock, like, over and over (3 identical rocks piled up in every tile) this is probably caused by the gigantness of the rocks that compose the... The hill? I don't remember the name. Anyways, I recommend variating the piling tiles so you don't end up with the same (highly tile-showing) rock over and over in the same tile column.
Just make tile columns with different tiles = make more versatile tiles... (?)
I wonder if I'm understandable...
Just make tile columns with different tiles = make more versatile tiles... (?)
I wonder if I'm understandable...
