DUNGEONS
Posts
Pages:
1
I'm having a lot of trouble making dungeons for some reason and the worst part is I can't seem to pinpoint what that something is. Does anyone have any tips?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Recommend you look through some of the game design tutorials. They're in the website's Articles section.
I'll save you some effort and link to one of the better ones: Brickroad's Dungeon Theory Article
I'll save you some effort and link to one of the better ones: Brickroad's Dungeon Theory Article
Mazes tend to have something, I think it's called the critical path or w/e, that is the shortest, if not only route from the entrance to the exit. The fastest way to design a dungeon, let's say of the cave variety, is to start by filling it in with the ceiling tile. Then, in under a minute, draw a critical path that winds to your content. Then draw any other arms that lead to dead ends and possibly any other arms that re-intersect with the critical path. Again, you can do this in under a minute. So far, all of the paths are just narrow, one tile wide. From here, broaden anything you have room to / want to broaden, and fill-in the walls that would be attached to your various paths. Make some number of maps, like 4-6, connect their entrances to their exits, and make a few false exits also on your wrong paths that lead into empty rooms. Finally, fill the dungeon in with all of the fixings, like bridges, broken bridges, bottomless pits, bodies of water, all of the little details like stalagmites and rocks, treasure, monsters, etc.. Occasionally, you can make a section inside map A that is like a tunnel or passage that will bring you to the entrance of map B, and when you walk through the exit of map B, you come out in another area of map A. Often, you may want to draw different levels of elevation within a single map, that involves some climbing of stairs or w/e.
That's the fastest way to generate generic but fine content, and often, your analysis paralysis is going to be what's stopping you from moving forward in any aspect of RPG design. If you look at any mapping tutorial, you'll see that they can draw you a great map in a pretty short length of time. It's all about just doing it.
Then, when possible, try to give your dungeons original flavor / gimmicks. For every aspect of game design, I keep a notepad file that contains every creative idea I've ever had for that area (like one for skill design, one for plot, one for monster design, one for town design, etc.). You can just pull ideas from your notepad randomly or deliberately, or we can list a collection of ideas in this thread, or maybe they're in an existing thread. Three similar ideas I had are 1) a dungeon that is simultaneously being raided by another party, so the faster you raid it, the more loot you get, 2) a dungeon that is being raided by a party ahead of you, and you always see them walking through the exit maybe 15 steps ahead of you, and 3) you go into a dungeon, and sometime later, an NPC comes-up from behind you, and they came from town to give you something or tell you something that might help you in the dungeon. You can have a merchant or even a small village inside the dungeon. Obviously people like to insert puzzles into dungeons, especially of the rock-rolling variety and the lever/switch/button-pressing variety (especially when those switches actually alter the dungeon's floor plan). You can make a dungeon whose true purpose in the grand scheme of things is to get captured by the bad guys mid-raid (unbeknownst to the player). We've seen in the past dungeons where you can only use magic, dungeons where you switch between multiple parties, dungeons that repeatedly take you above grounds and then underground again, dungeons where you gain a party member, dungeons where wearing heavy metal is disabling (due to magnetism), dungeons where your method of movement is in flux (i.e. bridges that appear and disappear, move, retract, etc.), dungeons where you can optionally release an optional boss, dungeons that require finding a secret passage or other secret trick to get past them, dungeons where you encounter an old friend or an old enemy, you can make a gimmick where your appearance is altered for the remainder of the game (i.e. you lose your hat, you lose an arm, you get sick in that dungeon and your skin changes color, hair gets burnt off, etc.), etc..
That's the fastest way to generate generic but fine content, and often, your analysis paralysis is going to be what's stopping you from moving forward in any aspect of RPG design. If you look at any mapping tutorial, you'll see that they can draw you a great map in a pretty short length of time. It's all about just doing it.
Then, when possible, try to give your dungeons original flavor / gimmicks. For every aspect of game design, I keep a notepad file that contains every creative idea I've ever had for that area (like one for skill design, one for plot, one for monster design, one for town design, etc.). You can just pull ideas from your notepad randomly or deliberately, or we can list a collection of ideas in this thread, or maybe they're in an existing thread. Three similar ideas I had are 1) a dungeon that is simultaneously being raided by another party, so the faster you raid it, the more loot you get, 2) a dungeon that is being raided by a party ahead of you, and you always see them walking through the exit maybe 15 steps ahead of you, and 3) you go into a dungeon, and sometime later, an NPC comes-up from behind you, and they came from town to give you something or tell you something that might help you in the dungeon. You can have a merchant or even a small village inside the dungeon. Obviously people like to insert puzzles into dungeons, especially of the rock-rolling variety and the lever/switch/button-pressing variety (especially when those switches actually alter the dungeon's floor plan). You can make a dungeon whose true purpose in the grand scheme of things is to get captured by the bad guys mid-raid (unbeknownst to the player). We've seen in the past dungeons where you can only use magic, dungeons where you switch between multiple parties, dungeons that repeatedly take you above grounds and then underground again, dungeons where you gain a party member, dungeons where wearing heavy metal is disabling (due to magnetism), dungeons where your method of movement is in flux (i.e. bridges that appear and disappear, move, retract, etc.), dungeons where you can optionally release an optional boss, dungeons that require finding a secret passage or other secret trick to get past them, dungeons where you encounter an old friend or an old enemy, you can make a gimmick where your appearance is altered for the remainder of the game (i.e. you lose your hat, you lose an arm, you get sick in that dungeon and your skin changes color, hair gets burnt off, etc.), etc..
Wow,you 've seen the subject through and through, would like to see one of your games, sometimes ? The first part really interested me, being really new to game making, it gives a clear method of dungeon designing (as surprising as it may seem to more experienced makers, at first, you can be absolutely clueless in how to map such or such a place : dungeons and forests, in particular!).
Thanks.
I used to be awful at dungeon design, then I youtubed things like "RPG Maker mapping tutorial" and sometimes included a term like "dungeon," "town," or "world." I tend to like the ones that are sped-up and have no commentary. If you watch a good dungeon drawn in 5 minutes (sped-up), it's easier to shut your brain off a bit and just do it. Here's some tutorials that influenced me, and any other tips I can share:
Town: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBkiyOaMyIw&feature=related
World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHbcjjg2p3E
Draw an outline in 1/8th magnification. Try to make it reasonably jagged.
Dungeon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRiMluZw9R4
This starts with drawing a crooked oval outline. That tends to be a good starting point for drawing caves.
Town: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMK8dKjVF3U
Waterfall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcv1ifUCKSc&feature=related
Notice how these tutorials both begin with grabbing the wall tile and drawing a crooked line (then turning it into a hillside)? That turns out to be a better starting point than I would have thought.
The theme is... don't get bogged down by analysis paralysis and chasing something perfect. There is not one perfect map, there's unlimited possibilities of great maps.
I used to be awful at dungeon design, then I youtubed things like "RPG Maker mapping tutorial" and sometimes included a term like "dungeon," "town," or "world." I tend to like the ones that are sped-up and have no commentary. If you watch a good dungeon drawn in 5 minutes (sped-up), it's easier to shut your brain off a bit and just do it. Here's some tutorials that influenced me, and any other tips I can share:
Town: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBkiyOaMyIw&feature=related
World: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHbcjjg2p3E
Draw an outline in 1/8th magnification. Try to make it reasonably jagged.
Dungeon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRiMluZw9R4
This starts with drawing a crooked oval outline. That tends to be a good starting point for drawing caves.
Town: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMK8dKjVF3U
Waterfall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcv1ifUCKSc&feature=related
Notice how these tutorials both begin with grabbing the wall tile and drawing a crooked line (then turning it into a hillside)? That turns out to be a better starting point than I would have thought.
The theme is... don't get bogged down by analysis paralysis and chasing something perfect. There is not one perfect map, there's unlimited possibilities of great maps.
author=chanaAwesome, thanks. Still working on my first project. Set the bar too high, so it's been taking a while. I've got plenty of good maps, though :-D
Wow,you 've seen the subject through and through, would like to see one of your games, sometimes ?
I think you fumbled the dungeon link - it shows a non-interactive room with no order of progression.
author=ChaosProductionsWell it's a demonstration of one way that you can quickly outline the map, fill-in walls, add pits, add these interior islands of rock (I can't think of a better term), quickly fill in the details, and so on. Some people would have trouble doing that in 10 minutes or less without seeing a guide. I've drawn dungeon maps that were approached pretty similarly, except the movement was more restricted , and there were fewer correct paths and much more incorrect paths; which is one problem that tutorial had.
I think you fumbled the dungeon link - it shows a non-interactive room with no order of progression.
It is helpful, if your imagination is strained for how to draw a dungeon, but it doesn't have everything you need in one place. You still have to draw from other advices, like my suggestion of starting with the ceiling filled in, grab the floor tile, draw the critical path, draw every other path, then broaden the paths almost to the full extent that you have room for, usually, and then fill-in the walls and everything else. Just for a generic dungeon. Include any added complexities as desired, like multiple levels of elevation in a single map, wading through water, falling down a waterfall, levers that alter the terrain, bridges, broken bridges, bottomless pits, hopping across stepping stones in lava, riding on an animal's back, moving obstacles like an axe on a pendulum, puzzles such as of the rock-rolling variety, etc.
Pages:
1
















