MUAMMAR GADDAFI DEFEATED

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KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1217
As for the reason America and other nations got involved there is no clear answer.
...
I just don't buy the whole 'America is playing the hero, always protecting civilians from aggressive dictators and human rights violaters'
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My point is there is no clear reason for Americas agreement for intervention

I would like to point out that the USA was extremely hesitant about intervening in Libya, and only after Europe (read: UK and France) moaned and whined did the USA get pulled into the whole mess because they (UK and France) couldn't clean up after their own crap. For once, it was the USA being pulled around.
author=soniX
Until he ordered the Libyan army to attack all civilians without discrimination over peaceful protests that wanted to put an end to his 40+ year

It's not that I haven't heard such claims. But when I heard them, they were always preceded with "There are reports of-" or followed by "-according to (some guy/organization)". Not verifiable, in other words.
Such emotionally charged taglines are just like when news outlets went wild with the Pakistani people celebrating 9/11 a few days after the towers fell. When it was later revealed that the footage was falsified and originally from a Ramadan festival in 1999, every one of them apologized and rescinded the story later on, but only in little blurbs below the advertisement on page 77 in the Saturday edition. Newspapers make that mistake once in awhile. It's just a fatal flaw of the hypercompetitive 24/7 news cycle.

author=Yellow Magic
With all due respect, what better sources of information are there than today's newspapers? Conspiracy theorists? Hearsay? Youtube videos

You're the one trying to drag this into the realm of "conspiracy theory" so you can slap some labels and discredit the messenger, not the message.

For fun, want a good reason not to believe what you read in the morning newspapers?
A lot of journalists have gotten "fat". It's a job, like yours and mine. The pay is adequate, the company sponsors your journalism abroad, and you get to establish name and cred for yourself in the written community. The end result is having a self-styled journalist writing his article at 1am for the 4am deadline, sitting at his computer in his big city condo and telling the world what's going on in Libya based on contacts, hearsay, and various reports/debriefings.
When they do go abroad, they're usually in the protection of allied military. Being flanked by soldiers when you're in a warzone is nice, but you lose journalistic freedom in the process. Officers tell you where you can and can't go for your own safety.
It's not that real investigative journalists don't exist anymore. They're just a minority because the risk/reward ratio doesn't compare to swivel chair journalism.

Just an FYI, I'm not advocating that you never again read a newspaper or anything like that. There are still gem articles and plenty of good writers (even among the swivel chair breed), but if you aren't able to read between the lines and understand the motive of the article, then you're just a child letting yourself be told what to believe.
And when you're able to fully understand what you're reading, you'll find that the most interesting parts of the newspaper are the Crossword and Larry King's Top Ten.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
Depends which newspaper, also, it's better if you're used to the newspaper and it's journalists, then you can sort out the facts from the trends, on certain subjects, yet I beleive any serious journalist is looking for the truth, and newspapers, as far as I'm concerned, are the best source of information. (While I certainly wouldn't say as much for tv.)
I think this is horseshit, sure Gadaffi just lost the war, but I dont believe he died, they just need to calm down the situation in the world, with people rioting, protesting, economy crisis etc. etc. just look at those footages, they are laughable evidence.

author=Feldschlacht IV
As for me, I think it's quite admirable that the Libyan people, with some help of course, took it into their own hands to depose what really was a autocratic dictator. A lot of nations never really get out of the 'oppression/protest/get killed/repeat' stage of the game, and Libya really broke out of that wheel when they collectively decided to take action. I think time will tell how Libya fares under the NTC, but I think things are looking good.

Yes, yes, if you think admirable is to bomb the shit out of country, because thats how the only way USA can win a war since 1945. The only way because " rebels" won, is because USA poke their dick into the situation, because Gaddafi had pots of gold. OSN, USA, NATO doesnt care if there is some dictator, they dont care if someone is oppressed, they dont care if you are dying, they just care about their greed, jeez and if anyone believes they are "peacekeepers" than they are really really really naive, so naive that they are stupid . And how in the hell you can have peace trough war, thats like putting out fire with alcohol...

I don't get you people, everyday you meet with corruption, with bullshit, with slackers, thief's, robbers, idiots, brainwashing and yet you cant apply it on other countries. Its the same shit over and over and over again, thousand years of deceive, treachery, falsehood, greed... do you still believe politics arent corrupted, that bunch of rich cripple fagots aren't hiding away with stolen money in big villas guarded by some bodyguards *cough* police *cough* , because you can just march in, break their necks and take your stolen money back. Man if some politicians aren't corrupt-able or greedy, they get rid of them one or the other way. That applies for almost everything where is money involved or do you live in some kind of fairytale where everyone cares about other and something as greed, backstabbing and vileness doesn't exist ?
kentona
Your mom is a hero
20844
I thought France was the lead and primary military force in this war?
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
author=kentona
I thought France was the lead and primary military force in this war?
France leading primary military force...something is wrong here.
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
I know they were the first to decide to iintervene, and, consequently were very active there, how it ended as forces go, idk.
author=chana
I know they were the first to decide to intervene, and, consequently were very active there, how it ended as forces go, idk.

I meant it as joke, just look at the history of French military and don't count napoleon.
kentona
Your mom is a hero
20844
Why wouldn't we count Napoleon?
chana
(Socrates would certainly not contadict me!)
1584
Thanks for the capital N Kentona! and yes, without Napoleon, France would not exist, at least as it is, everything, in France, is based on the Revolution and the napoleonic legal codes (not to mention a quantity of administrative institutions). Not counting Napoleon just won't do!

Edit : oh, and as history goes, there's a before Napoleon, quite a while...
Adon237
if i had an allowance, i would give it to rmn
1743
About time. He thought he could get it back, he should have known he was done.
KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1217
And how in the hell you can have peace trough war, thats like putting out fire with alcohol...

Not impossible to accomplish, you just need to eradicate all your enemies.
author=some guy on the internet
Yes, yes, if you think admirable is to bomb the shit out of country, because thats how the only way USA can win a war since 1945. The only way because " rebels" won, is because USA poke their dick into the situation, because Gaddafi had pots of gold. OSN, USA, NATO doesnt care if there is some dictator, they dont care if someone is oppressed, they dont care if you are dying, they just care about their greed, jeez and if anyone believes they are "peacekeepers" than they are really really really naive, so naive that they are stupid.

As someone who is currently serving in the US military I can tell you flat out we had no major involvement in this whole Libya business.

And how in the hell you can have peace trough war, thats like putting out fire with alcohol..

World War II okay bye.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
author=Dyhalto
You're the one trying to drag this into the realm of "conspiracy theory" so you can slap some labels and discredit the messenger, not the message.
Until such messengers come up with better media than shock-value images of George Bush and dead Arabs coupled with cheesy techno music (like, actual evidence? with sources?) I won't be taking them seriously anytime soon. Sorry, but there's a right way and a wrong way to convey potentially perspective changing, even scarring messages, and such videos/websites/whatever aren't the former.

Nice to hear such scepticism regarding journalism, but with little hard evidence on either side I'd prefer to read a quality newspaper over the sound of confirmation bias. Of course if there are better sources of information out there I'd love to hear about them.
Despite
When the going gets tough, go fuck yourself.
1340
author=Bonehead11
I meant it as joke, just look at the history of French military and don't count napoleon.


Oh you mean like when the french helped the Americans win the war against Britain?
KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1217
As someone who is currently serving in the US military I can tell you flat out we had no major involvement in this whole Libya business.

I don't mean to discredit you or anything, but I remember reading that a large part of logistical support, such as aerial refueling and surveillance, were performed by US forces (either directly or through NATO) because other NATO members didn't have the gear or simply couldn't get its act together. Am I remembering wrong?
No, you're correct about our support role, but most of the major, active part of Libya's foreign aid was mostly by European powers. It's incorrect to state that America 'bombed the shit' out of anyone (this time! I am not saying I support all of our military intervention strategies; I sure as hell don't) because relative little of that actually occurred on our side. This sure as hell wasn't the magnitude of Operation Enduring Freedom or Operation New Dawn.
author=chana
Depends which newspaper

Not really.
The news tends to be less interested in reporting the news and more so in polarizing it. If you notice, news papers and news networks have taken on an identifiable political stance and thus are politically active entities. One major city newspaper is republican oriented and the other is democrat (we have equivalents in all other western countries). News outfits turn their best profit when people are excited and want to keep up. So when there isn't a major event going on in the world, you can always say "Those damn (opposition) want to doom us all!" The result of this is that we have a pre-defined, limited space for debate. The discussion is back-and-forth slander type material.
A perfect example is last summer's debt ceiling dog & pony show. The US can pay it's debt off tomorrow afternoon if it wants. Draft and pass the appropriate legislation, have the US Treasury print a single $14 Trillion bill, give it to the Federal Reserve, nationalize them, then remove $14 Trillion from circulation. Note : I'm oversimplifying for the sake of argument. But no, the news was all about this stupid irrelevant debt ceiling and whether we should raise it or let the world collapse and the sky fall and the rivers burn. Oh noes, does nobody have duh answer?

author=Yellow Magic
Of course if there are better sources of information out there I'd love to hear about them.

You can subscribe to Russia Today on youtube.
They're an upstart international news reporting agency who're rapidly gaining ground and for good reasons. Yes, they're a Russian state funded news network. Just don't expect them to report on scandals and wrongdoings in Russia.
author=kentona
Why wouldn't we count Napoleon?
He wasnt French? Well he was born in land wich was under French rule, but he wasnt a fully fledged Frenchie...you know what I mean.

author=Feldschlacht IV
As someone who is currently serving in the US military I can tell you flat out we had no major involvement in this whole Libya business.
Who calls the shots around in UN and NATO ? Remember generalizing is a friend, yeah like I want to write out every single soldier who was participating.

author=Feldschlacht IV
World War II okay bye.
You know what they say, what comes around goes around.

author=Despite
Oh you mean like when the french helped the Americans win the war against Britain?
The key word is HELPED, it was not their war.