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CHRONO CROSS APPRECIATION/DEPRECATION/WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN THREAD
Posts
yamata no orochi
184
yamata no orochi
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CloseChrono Cross just came out yesterday on the Playstation Network, available for PS3s and PSPs everywhere. Think about that for a second.
Playstation-era JRPGs can be a pretty controversial subject. Was Final Fantasy VIII an avant-garde masterpiece or a broken soap opera populated by unlikable characters? Did Xenogears really have The Best Story in a Video Game Ever, or is it instead a barely-finished regurgitation of Evangelion and an intro class in psychology? About the only game that people seem to agree was pretty cool without reservations was Suikoden II, and even that didn't have a great translation (granted, most of them did back then.) And of all these games, one of the most controversial was Chrono Cross--a game that received a rave reception when it was released, only to later be labelled as a failure that not only had terrible gameplay and arguably one of the most convoluted plots in any videogame ever but was also (to add insult to injury) a horrible sequel to SNES-era masterpiece Chrono Trigger.
BUT I remember the game fondly from my childhood and never had a chance to play it all the way through, so I am working on it right now! So far, I can understand the hate to a degree--recruitable party members add replay value but have very little depth, characters frequently espouse philosophy at every opportunity and finding a hidden Uplift element in the beginning of the game requires talking to a pot four or five times until it starts yelling at you.
On the other hand, the game is aesthetically brilliant--the island motif is whimsical, a world away from other JRPGs and generally really well done. The element system is a neat compromise between character individuality and Final Fantasy VIII-era customization where all characters are the same. The subject matter is heavy as hell, and the occasional flashes of plot evident in the opening village are a lot stranger and more disturbing than Chrono Trigger ever was. And the soundtrack is magnificent, of course. Overall the game feels like a weird fusion of Xenogears and Chrono Trigger (which makes sense considering the writer of Xenogears was director and writer of Chrono Cross, as well as the Zeal segment in Trigger) and while it's imperfect and a little bizarre it's certainly very interesting, and a world away from the more populist Final Fantasy games.
Anyway, I'll continue playing through this, and maybe posting reactions if things get better or take a major turn for the worse. Anyone have anything interesting to say about Chrono Cross? Experiences with the game? Proof of the game's terribleness or of Masato Kato's insanity? Let's Plays (The Dark Id did a pretty good one)? Anything's good so long as it isn't something like "Chrono Cross is bad, end of story"--actual reasons would be great. This is one of the most batshit insane JRPGs ever released for the Playstation, after all.
Some neat articles:
Jeremy Parish's take, which takes the middle ground.
Pitchfork's retrospective, which is considerably more snarky but also surprisingly restrained.
ADDENDUM: Vagrant Story is probably the Playstation game most loved by critics to this day, but even it has an active hatedom, so...
Playstation-era JRPGs can be a pretty controversial subject. Was Final Fantasy VIII an avant-garde masterpiece or a broken soap opera populated by unlikable characters? Did Xenogears really have The Best Story in a Video Game Ever, or is it instead a barely-finished regurgitation of Evangelion and an intro class in psychology? About the only game that people seem to agree was pretty cool without reservations was Suikoden II, and even that didn't have a great translation (granted, most of them did back then.) And of all these games, one of the most controversial was Chrono Cross--a game that received a rave reception when it was released, only to later be labelled as a failure that not only had terrible gameplay and arguably one of the most convoluted plots in any videogame ever but was also (to add insult to injury) a horrible sequel to SNES-era masterpiece Chrono Trigger.
BUT I remember the game fondly from my childhood and never had a chance to play it all the way through, so I am working on it right now! So far, I can understand the hate to a degree--recruitable party members add replay value but have very little depth, characters frequently espouse philosophy at every opportunity and finding a hidden Uplift element in the beginning of the game requires talking to a pot four or five times until it starts yelling at you.
On the other hand, the game is aesthetically brilliant--the island motif is whimsical, a world away from other JRPGs and generally really well done. The element system is a neat compromise between character individuality and Final Fantasy VIII-era customization where all characters are the same. The subject matter is heavy as hell, and the occasional flashes of plot evident in the opening village are a lot stranger and more disturbing than Chrono Trigger ever was. And the soundtrack is magnificent, of course. Overall the game feels like a weird fusion of Xenogears and Chrono Trigger (which makes sense considering the writer of Xenogears was director and writer of Chrono Cross, as well as the Zeal segment in Trigger) and while it's imperfect and a little bizarre it's certainly very interesting, and a world away from the more populist Final Fantasy games.
Anyway, I'll continue playing through this, and maybe posting reactions if things get better or take a major turn for the worse. Anyone have anything interesting to say about Chrono Cross? Experiences with the game? Proof of the game's terribleness or of Masato Kato's insanity? Let's Plays (The Dark Id did a pretty good one)? Anything's good so long as it isn't something like "Chrono Cross is bad, end of story"--actual reasons would be great. This is one of the most batshit insane JRPGs ever released for the Playstation, after all.
Some neat articles:
Jeremy Parish's take, which takes the middle ground.
Pitchfork's retrospective, which is considerably more snarky but also surprisingly restrained.
ADDENDUM: Vagrant Story is probably the Playstation game most loved by critics to this day, but even it has an active hatedom, so...
I never played it, as I didn't have a Playstation 1 or 2. Chrono Trigger is perhaps the best RPG ever though, so maybe I will give Chrono Cross a shot...?
although this is probably one of the best musical pieces I've ever heard in a videogame:
although this is probably one of the best musical pieces I've ever heard in a videogame:
author=kentona
I never played it, as I didn't have a Playstation 1 or 2. Chrono Trigger is perhaps the best RPG ever though, so maybe I will give Chrono Cross a shot...?
although this is probably one of the best musical pieces I've ever heard in a videogame:
Even Chrono Cross's worst detractors can't deny the game has an incredible score. I have not played the game so I cannot comment further!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Chrono Cross: Extremely great music. Lousy game. Has almost nothing to do with Chrono Trigger.
Playing it, you get the feeling that, extremely late in the game's development, the development team decided that the game was not going to sell well, and so they scattered a small number of vague, poorly thought out Chrono Trigger references throughout it at the last minute and marketed it as a sequel. Sadly, that's not actually the case. It was just made by people who had probably never played more than an hour or two of Chrono Trigger, and didn't think it was anything special or see any reason to try to imitate it.
Playing it, you get the feeling that, extremely late in the game's development, the development team decided that the game was not going to sell well, and so they scattered a small number of vague, poorly thought out Chrono Trigger references throughout it at the last minute and marketed it as a sequel. Sadly, that's not actually the case. It was just made by people who had probably never played more than an hour or two of Chrono Trigger, and didn't think it was anything special or see any reason to try to imitate it.
I played it quite a lot! However I didn't give any thought to the game's design or "fun", really - I'd paid money for it, and that seemed to be enough reason for me to enjoy playing it. Also it was pretty so I kept playing it.
It's sitting on my shelf right now; I actually brought it with me so I could start a new file! The plot is all fuzzy in my memory and I'm not sure how I'll feel about the gameplay now that I play games with a more critical eye. Making games has forever ruined playing them.
But I'll never forget Solt and Peppor and Ketchup. (Was that even how you spelled their names?) Or that flamboyant hero dude (Jean?) who was pretty useless without the "Hero" set of equips. (But Zappa was the best, he was the coolest dude ever to me and never left my party as soon as I got him.) AND THAT FREAKING MIGUEL FIGHT AUGH FUCK THAT GUY.
I was also intensely confused about spending so much of my time as a furry when previously I had been human. ...Really I remember being confused about a lot of things.
And yes, the music is amazing.
It's sitting on my shelf right now; I actually brought it with me so I could start a new file! The plot is all fuzzy in my memory and I'm not sure how I'll feel about the gameplay now that I play games with a more critical eye. Making games has forever ruined playing them.
But I'll never forget Solt and Peppor and Ketchup. (Was that even how you spelled their names?) Or that flamboyant hero dude (Jean?) who was pretty useless without the "Hero" set of equips. (But Zappa was the best, he was the coolest dude ever to me and never left my party as soon as I got him.) AND THAT FREAKING MIGUEL FIGHT AUGH FUCK THAT GUY.
I was also intensely confused about spending so much of my time as a furry when previously I had been human. ...Really I remember being confused about a lot of things.
And yes, the music is amazing.
Chrono Cross has some good tunes. Their usage in the game however is pretty much appalling. Here listen to this and don't turn it off for... about an hour or two. That awesome world map theme Kentona posted? You'll probably hear it for about ten minutes across the entire game since it's only played on part of the world map that's small and becomes irrelevant before long. Meanwhile the piece of audible garbage I posted is played in a giant retarded fetch quest with no sort of breaks. Hell for a bit you couldn't even leave. Then there's the battle msuic which, being a PS1 RPG 'n all, you'll hear a lot of. I fucking hate it too. There's other tracks like this but I just wanted to post the two I hate with all my being.
Then one of my favorite tracks is... only played in the opening demo? Hell I don't think most people even knew it had one.
Chrono Cross has fucking awful music. I regularly muted the music so I wouldn't have to listen to it. The soundtrack on the other hand is pretty good.
Other comments: Looked nice, plot and characters were dumb, barely remember the battle systems. Had a few dumb fetch quests. Garai's a dick.
*edit*
Forgot Miguel. He's a dick too. Thanks Pentagon Buddy.
Then one of my favorite tracks is... only played in the opening demo? Hell I don't think most people even knew it had one.
Chrono Cross has fucking awful music. I regularly muted the music so I wouldn't have to listen to it. The soundtrack on the other hand is pretty good.
Other comments: Looked nice, plot and characters were dumb, barely remember the battle systems. Had a few dumb fetch quests. Garai's a dick.
*edit*
Forgot Miguel. He's a dick too. Thanks Pentagon Buddy.
Still downloading it, My internet is slow xP
I only download games when i hear a piece that catchs me. This game had dozens. Intro, Radical dreamers and WM 2 to name a few.
Mitsuda is a genious
I only download games when i hear a piece that catchs me. This game had dozens. Intro, Radical dreamers and WM 2 to name a few.
Mitsuda is a genious
Came very close to finishing the game before the Playstation broke. Don't think I can be bothered playing through 90% of it just again to get to the ending; didn't like the battle system very much and the fact that there are an insane number of playable characters I couldn't get myself to care about doesn't help either. Also Miguel.
However brilliant score bla bla
However brilliant score bla bla
prexus
309
author=LockeZ
Chrono Cross: Extremely great music. Lousy game. Has almost nothing to do with Chrono Trigger.
Playing it, you get the feeling that, extremely late in the game's development, the development team decided that the game was not going to sell well, and so they scattered a small number of vague, poorly thought out Chrono Trigger references throughout it at the last minute and marketed it as a sequel. Sadly, that's not actually the case. It was just made by people who had probably never played more than an hour or two of Chrono Trigger, and didn't think it was anything special or see any reason to try to imitate it.
I found this to be the case the first time I played through it.
After playing through Chrono Trigger and Cross recently, I found there is a lot more there between the two games than may be readily apparently. You can find a lot of information online regarding the ties between the two. I think a large part of the problem had to do with the interpretation of the Chrono series by the Cross team. I doubt they only played an hour or two of Trigger, but it is clear that they didn't understand exactly what was so great about it. The Narrative style is completely different and makes it a fair bit harder to connect the two.
They did add another ending to Chrono Trigger DS that tied in Cross a little better
spoiler
They added a fight with Lavos/Schala, mimicing the proper final boss in Chrono Cross.
Avee
5794
I own Chrono Cross since 2000 and never played past Termina. I just can't get into it. Chrono Trigger, on the other hand, I play a little every year.
Chrono Trigger was mostly written and designed by Yuji Horii, the guy behind the Dragon Quest series, and Hiroyuki Ito. But Chrono Cross was made by other guys.
Nowadays I never trust the companies (the producers and developers) when it comes to buying a game. I rather look up who are the writers and designers to make my mind. That way I am rarely disappointed with my purchases.
By the way Yasunori Mitsuda is the composer for CT and CC. I support him by buying his albums and having a look at the other games he scored (Xenogears, Shadow Hearts, Sands of Destruction...)
Chrono Trigger was mostly written and designed by Yuji Horii, the guy behind the Dragon Quest series, and Hiroyuki Ito. But Chrono Cross was made by other guys.
Nowadays I never trust the companies (the producers and developers) when it comes to buying a game. I rather look up who are the writers and designers to make my mind. That way I am rarely disappointed with my purchases.
By the way Yasunori Mitsuda is the composer for CT and CC. I support him by buying his albums and having a look at the other games he scored (Xenogears, Shadow Hearts, Sands of Destruction...)
I started to play it again, and just got sickened by the battles.
It is slow, when getting into a battle, and I would rather them recapture the battle system that Trigger had. 3D graphics, but Trigger's battle system/layout, would have made it a bit better.
It is slow, when getting into a battle, and I would rather them recapture the battle system that Trigger had. 3D graphics, but Trigger's battle system/layout, would have made it a bit better.
True Fact: Chrono Cross is one of WELL LESS THAN TEN jRPGs that I've played from beginning to end and beaten.
yamata no orochi
184
author=Avee
Chrono Trigger was mostly written and designed by Yuji Horii, the guy behind the Dragon Quest series, and Hiroyuki Ito. But Chrono Cross was made by other guys.
Nowadays I never trust the companies (the producers and developers) when it comes to buying a game. I rather look up who are the writers and designers to make my mind. That way I am rarely disappointed with my purchases.
Chrono Cross was actually both written and directed by Masato Kato. He's most famous (infamous?) for his role as one of the writers of Xenogears, but he also wrote the whole Zeal section of Chrono Trigger (one of the most imaginative sections of the game, to be fair)
You can see his influence in Cross--interesting ideas compounded by messy execution. Can't fault him for shooting for the moon, though!
author=kentona
I never played it, as I didn't have a Playstation 1 or 2. Chrono Trigger is perhaps the best RPG ever though, so maybe I will give Chrono Cross a shot...?
Chrono Cross gets wrong almost everything that Chrono Trigger got right (excellent pacing, a memorable cast of characters, almost no filler.) The crucial difference I think is that Chrono Trigger is sheer unpretentious fun while Chrono Cross is essentially an art game wrapped up in a JRPG-blockbuster wrapper. It's slow, infuriating and even incomprehensible but never less than interesting and occasionally transcendent.
So it's good (in my opinion at least, and I haven't even finished the game yet!) but for very different reasons that Chrono Trigger is good. Keep an open mind and you probably won't be disappointed.
Unless you come to despise it with a passion instead, but honestly Chrono Cross is that kind of game!
I'm liking it a bit more, if you don't think of it as some sort of sequel, and just play it as an unrelated game, given that is what it most likely is.
I still would rather them have the same 'on map' battle system that trigger used, on this game, as that would have been far more interesting, and faster.
I still would rather them have the same 'on map' battle system that trigger used, on this game, as that would have been far more interesting, and faster.
Avee
5794
author=Dudesoft
Chrono Cross rocked.
Chrono Trigger sucked.
That's just my opinion.
This is the first time I've met someone who thinks so. I respect the opinion and am very interested in knowing what did you like and dislike about both games ^^
AveeDudesoftThis is the first time I've met someone who thinks so. I respect the opinion and am very interested in knowing what did you like and dislike about both games ^^
Chrono Cross rocked.
Chrono Trigger sucked.
That's just my opinion.
Chrono Trigger is the definition of SNES RPG vanilla. It's not terrible, it's just not very good either.
I think Chrono Trigger is a definite masterpiece, especially retroactively, but I can understand why someone wouldn't think it's great.
With Trigger, I found the battlesystem tedious, the art style I can't even look at, the writing was not in my interest, and the whole larvae taking over time story just eh. I liked the music though.
Chronic Cross I enjoyed the challenge, loved the music, enjoyed the art style, loved the fact there's like 50 some odd party members, it was like constantly meeting temporary members.
The world and whole vibe of the islander style of villages was brilliant.
Best of all the writing was a gold mine for rpg maker parody.
Back when I was into these kind of games, I was really into making fun of games.
Plus recently, I played it again, and it was like pokemon. Gotta catch em all!
I know most people prefer Trigger. It's just not for me...
Chronic Cross I enjoyed the challenge, loved the music, enjoyed the art style, loved the fact there's like 50 some odd party members, it was like constantly meeting temporary members.
The world and whole vibe of the islander style of villages was brilliant.
Best of all the writing was a gold mine for rpg maker parody.
Back when I was into these kind of games, I was really into making fun of games.
Plus recently, I played it again, and it was like pokemon. Gotta catch em all!
I know most people prefer Trigger. It's just not for me...
