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A NEW COMBAT STRATEGY (CUTTING OFF HEADS, MAKING LIMBS USELESS)
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ShortStar
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CloseSo I'm in the process of making a combat engine for your standard RPG game. It seems like everything else. Agility determines how quick you attack. Lose all HP and death happens. But I was thinking of making something richer like combatants with heads, aim for the head and you have a 50% chance of hitting, but it will do double the damage. Aim for a limb it will do less damage, but weaken the limb so they cannot hurt you as much. Aim for a leg it will slow down a combatant if not prevent them from running. This all would be on top of a standard attack.
This way, combatants can wear specific armor like helmets mean a lot more to your head than it does to your body. BOdy armor doesn't mean much if you're arrow shot through the head.
Would anyone like if RPGs did this? Or is a simple attack enough? I've never played Fallout, but I do know about the VAT targeting system :-)
This way, combatants can wear specific armor like helmets mean a lot more to your head than it does to your body. BOdy armor doesn't mean much if you're arrow shot through the head.
Would anyone like if RPGs did this? Or is a simple attack enough? I've never played Fallout, but I do know about the VAT targeting system :-)
Despain
415
This would be ridiculously tedious in low-level regular battles. Something like this would be falling into the "features for the sake of features" thing.
I can think of two legitimate ways to incorporate this into a regular battle system:
1. make them unique skills. if every character can just do this then there's probably going to be way to much shit going on in the battle and it wouldn't really be as cool. having a special move to target an enemy's limb would be a cool way to implement this without bogging down the core of the battle.
2. bosses. lots of games have bosses with targetable limbs.
I can think of two legitimate ways to incorporate this into a regular battle system:
1. make them unique skills. if every character can just do this then there's probably going to be way to much shit going on in the battle and it wouldn't really be as cool. having a special move to target an enemy's limb would be a cool way to implement this without bogging down the core of the battle.
2. bosses. lots of games have bosses with targetable limbs.
Through the method 1 It'll practically become like FFTA&2's archer skill "TArget: X" wich targets the eyes, vital organs, etc. therefore causing status like "don't Act" at "Target: Hands" etc.
In sum: It won't be much more that your regular slow and blind spells.
In sum: It won't be much more that your regular slow and blind spells.
author=ShortStar
But I was thinking of making something richer like combatants with heads, aim for the head and you have a 50% chance of hitting, but it will do double the damage. Aim for a limb it will do less damage, but weaken the limb so they cannot hurt you as much. Aim for a leg it will slow down a combatant if not prevent them from running.
Vagrant Story did pretty much this. In addition it had different types of weapons, armor, magics, you name it... If I remember correctly, even the materials a weapon was made of could represent more damage to certain parts of the body of certain enemies; so you had to constantly change weapons to find the best strategy for any given fight. - It was tedious at times, but fun.
Low level combat battles... slimes, bees, bats wouldn't have attackable limbs and heads. So then just attack will work. With dogs, bears and so on they would have bears.
But yes, maybe it would make combat into a tedium.
But yes, maybe it would make combat into a tedium.
Despain
This would be ridiculously tedious in low-level regular battles. Something like this would be falling into the "features for the sake of features" thing.
You could always design a game that doesn't have low-level battles, eschewing them for more interesting and engaging battles
but that's crazy talk.
***
As for this "new" idea, it's been done in a few roguelikes (Ivan being the most famous, iirc? Unsure, never played Ivan) and is prominent in the contemporary Fallout games. Etrian Odyssey also does it, but with bindings only (a bound head cancels spells/commands, bound legs stop fleeing and stop a few special attacks on certain enemies, and bound hands cancel attacks). There are effects in the original classes (EO1/2) and the new ones (EO3) that take these a step further - Arbalists in EO3, for example (and if I'm not brainfarting) can deal, say, +25% damage to a bound head. Maybe that's for Gladiators? ahhhhhhh
Avee
5794
Valkyrie Profile: Silmeria did this pretty well too.
Each body part (arms, legs, head, tail, torso, etc.) could drop a different item when broken. It was really fun to attack from different angles to get all the stuff.
Each body part (arms, legs, head, tail, torso, etc.) could drop a different item when broken. It was really fun to attack from different angles to get all the stuff.
Oh yeah, VP2:S has some cool mechanics like that too. The game was too needlessly complicated, but had some really great ideas.
Cozzer
0
The only thing I can say is that this is a big enough change that you'll probably have to design your battle system around it. It's not something that can be added to a standard battle system as an afterthought.
Shinan
4314
I'm a big fan of targeted attacks. I remember in Fallout Tactics (I don't remember if you could target the eyes in the original Fallout) I used to target the eyes with my sniper rifle and blind my enemies, making them basically harmless. Then I could just focus my energy toward other enemies and mop up the harmless ones as they got close.
Of course everyone loves headshots. But I think there's something to be said for proper limbshots also. Crippling enemies so they can't move (not just slow them down a bit, but slow them down a lot. I see many games with legshots that only barely slow down the enemy. Which doesn't make it worth a whole lot in my opinion) or disarming them with a good shot in the arm.
Of course I love these kind of small-scale tactical options in battles. Things like knockback, targeted shots, disarming, counterattacks. All these are more or less incosequential things but they often add a sense of place and dynamicness (that's probably not a word. "dynamism"?) to a fight.
Of course everyone loves headshots. But I think there's something to be said for proper limbshots also. Crippling enemies so they can't move (not just slow them down a bit, but slow them down a lot. I see many games with legshots that only barely slow down the enemy. Which doesn't make it worth a whole lot in my opinion) or disarming them with a good shot in the arm.
Of course I love these kind of small-scale tactical options in battles. Things like knockback, targeted shots, disarming, counterattacks. All these are more or less incosequential things but they often add a sense of place and dynamicness (that's probably not a word. "dynamism"?) to a fight.
Dyhalto
7536
Front Mission 3 had a good system of targetting individual components of the mech and not just the mech in general. Sometimes it just made more sense to aim for the gun arm which was doing all the damage. Also, it was fun getting enemy pilots to eject and squishing them.
I guess I'll join the "not really a fan of this" club--in Fallout, at least, I just eventually wound up always and unfailingly targeting the head (once I could reliably hit anything but the torso) so it just became a rote step in the combat process which I didn't really think about.
Front Mission used limb-targeting to significantly better effect, however. It was sometimes genuinely nerve wracking deciding what to shoot for (or even if you weren't aiming for anything in particular, what to HOPE you hit, if that makes sense).
Front Mission used limb-targeting to significantly better effect, however. It was sometimes genuinely nerve wracking deciding what to shoot for (or even if you weren't aiming for anything in particular, what to HOPE you hit, if that makes sense).
Anyone remember Hybrid Theory? It was one of the few N64 rpgs, and it had a system similar to this, where your battles were one-on-one melee duels, and you could execute tons of karate-based attacks, like a left-arm chop to the neck, or a sweep kick to the right leg. Not only could you target specific body parts (iirc) your limbs leveled up individually, and you could focus on right fist, left fist, right leg, left leg, etc...
If you removed pointless low-level fights for specified, possibly individually scripted, fights; fights build around this system (either duels or fights where you have to be creative with this system to win) it would work.
Having to do this 4 or 5 times every level of a dungeon while searching for treasure would be quite boring.
If you removed pointless low-level fights for specified, possibly individually scripted, fights; fights build around this system (either duels or fights where you have to be creative with this system to win) it would work.
Having to do this 4 or 5 times every level of a dungeon while searching for treasure would be quite boring.
zaeran
1327
Though not turn based, Monster Hunter games have the same concept, to the point of severing limbs and such. As all systems, it really is simply dependent on implementation.
My advice if you choose to proceed with this is to start simple. Don't try anything over ambitious starting out.
My advice if you choose to proceed with this is to start simple. Don't try anything over ambitious starting out.
Zaeran, even though the Monster Hunter series is like a Hack 'n Slash RPG with almost epic fights all the time. All the creatures you hunt are on the level of being BOSS or MINI BOSS. I'd love to see a game where it resembles real life where the battles are a matter or life and death and don't happen every 20 to 30 steps.
It depends. I love it in Despair Labyrinth when your companion has a Cut <body part> spell that acts to circumvent a strong boss that's basically just a STR Down stat.
Fallout's VAT system also has two implementations. FO3 and FO1-2 and they have their own critics.
Hybrid Theory also had this. I forgot a fighting game that also had this in real time.
It depends just because it's so rooted in how you actually do it.
Here I'll give you a basic example in a non-RPG manner:
Both Bushido Blade and Kengo have what's called 1 hit kills. You angle a certain slash enough and the character dies.
Kengo had the better more enjoyable system with parries and body dependent bleedings but people loved Bushido Blade more. Probably because it involve different weapon.
Long term you can even look at it from a fetishist point of view. Some love the fact that the whip attacks a part differently than a sword compared to a reverse edged sword.
Some love the fact that you can simply target body parts.
Some hate the fact that every creature has human body parts.
I even go both ways. To me it's often the animation more than the type of system that sells it to me. I love how in Dragonball Z for the Genesis, Piccolo would sometimes lose his arm and regrow it sprite style. Pointless but I love it. On the other hand, I thought I would love Fallout's system but eventually it got too boring because the risks were rarely there. You might as well have Brigandine GE's/FE's system of a choice between a high powered critical atk with low % or low power atk w/ high % of hitting.
It's all in how the combat system actually is when it's part of the game and not just the features.
Fallout's VAT system also has two implementations. FO3 and FO1-2 and they have their own critics.
Hybrid Theory also had this. I forgot a fighting game that also had this in real time.
It depends just because it's so rooted in how you actually do it.
Here I'll give you a basic example in a non-RPG manner:
Both Bushido Blade and Kengo have what's called 1 hit kills. You angle a certain slash enough and the character dies.
Kengo had the better more enjoyable system with parries and body dependent bleedings but people loved Bushido Blade more. Probably because it involve different weapon.
Long term you can even look at it from a fetishist point of view. Some love the fact that the whip attacks a part differently than a sword compared to a reverse edged sword.
Some love the fact that you can simply target body parts.
Some hate the fact that every creature has human body parts.
I even go both ways. To me it's often the animation more than the type of system that sells it to me. I love how in Dragonball Z for the Genesis, Piccolo would sometimes lose his arm and regrow it sprite style. Pointless but I love it. On the other hand, I thought I would love Fallout's system but eventually it got too boring because the risks were rarely there. You might as well have Brigandine GE's/FE's system of a choice between a high powered critical atk with low % or low power atk w/ high % of hitting.
It's all in how the combat system actually is when it's part of the game and not just the features.
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