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Considering a Pass/Fail
Marrend- 03/16/2011 02:47 PM
- 1527 views
Since last blog entry, I've been considering the various possibilities on what could happen with a Pass/Fail.
Reasons why this could PASS:
*Intro sequence - There might not be an elaborate opening cutscene, but players do gain control within the first two minutes of the game, give or take.
Reasons why this could FAIL:
*Mapping - The maps look like they took no more than five minutes to make. I can't totally deny this, but I haven't gotten much feedback on this front outside of "do it over", or "get better" without any direction of what specific areas I need to "do over" or "get better" at. Which is why the Let's Try of Legacy Reborn was actually valuable, despite my initially poor reaction.
*Encounters - This is another point that the Let's Try for Legacy Reborn was valuable, despite my reaction. For this game, I haven't gotten much feedback on encounters of late. From playtesting, I find that there isn't much strategy behind them. I've never had too much of a hard time, though I do tend grind quite a bit. Maybe it's because of my proclivity to grind that I find fights later on in the game to be annoyingly easy? It might not be a factor in the first fifteen minutes of gameplay, but it's something I have observed.
Things that could go either way:
*Music - There are some MIDI sequences made to sound more or less like they are from certain professionally made SNES-era games. Indeed, vgmusic.com is in the credits section of the manual that nobody ever reads. In any event, some people curse games with such "rips", while others praise them.
*Characterization - I've heard various conflicting accounts on how well the characters are developed. I've done nothing spectacular on this front, as there's no particular consensus.
*Graphics - The graphical style is very much VX RTP. There seems to be a lot of hate for this kind of graphical style, but there are those that don't seem to mind as much.
*Accessibility - There are moments in the game that are written to cater to those who know nothing about RPGs. As such, some explanations could be a tad long-winded. Hopefully, I could be randomly confusing in-game material with material in the manual.
*Story - I don't have much feedback on the game's story, or overall writing. Thus, I have no idea how this could factor.
*Puzzles - The puzzle-solving element is relatively new to the design, so the amount of commentary on this is pretty limited at the current build. That it took me over a year to figure out that the game could use something other than what amounts to the default combat engine as possible gameplay elements are, perhaps, worthy of an Ironhide facepalm.
Final Decision: While it's true that I could use decent feedback for a change, I'm beginning to think I'm putting too much stock in this idea. I need to accept that, since this is basically a first attempt, there's probably going to be more things that I do wrong than things that I do right. But let this not be a reason for me to get sloppy. Indeed, if I had the time and energy to worry about one person's opinion, I should have used that time and energy to worry about getting this game to "Complete" status.
Reasons why this could PASS:
*Intro sequence - There might not be an elaborate opening cutscene, but players do gain control within the first two minutes of the game, give or take.
Reasons why this could FAIL:
*Mapping - The maps look like they took no more than five minutes to make. I can't totally deny this, but I haven't gotten much feedback on this front outside of "do it over", or "get better" without any direction of what specific areas I need to "do over" or "get better" at. Which is why the Let's Try of Legacy Reborn was actually valuable, despite my initially poor reaction.
*Encounters - This is another point that the Let's Try for Legacy Reborn was valuable, despite my reaction. For this game, I haven't gotten much feedback on encounters of late. From playtesting, I find that there isn't much strategy behind them. I've never had too much of a hard time, though I do tend grind quite a bit. Maybe it's because of my proclivity to grind that I find fights later on in the game to be annoyingly easy? It might not be a factor in the first fifteen minutes of gameplay, but it's something I have observed.
Things that could go either way:
*Music - There are some MIDI sequences made to sound more or less like they are from certain professionally made SNES-era games. Indeed, vgmusic.com is in the credits section of the manual that nobody ever reads. In any event, some people curse games with such "rips", while others praise them.
*Characterization - I've heard various conflicting accounts on how well the characters are developed. I've done nothing spectacular on this front, as there's no particular consensus.
*Graphics - The graphical style is very much VX RTP. There seems to be a lot of hate for this kind of graphical style, but there are those that don't seem to mind as much.
*Accessibility - There are moments in the game that are written to cater to those who know nothing about RPGs. As such, some explanations could be a tad long-winded. Hopefully, I could be randomly confusing in-game material with material in the manual.
*Story - I don't have much feedback on the game's story, or overall writing. Thus, I have no idea how this could factor.
*Puzzles - The puzzle-solving element is relatively new to the design, so the amount of commentary on this is pretty limited at the current build. That it took me over a year to figure out that the game could use something other than what amounts to the default combat engine as possible gameplay elements are, perhaps, worthy of an Ironhide facepalm.
Final Decision: While it's true that I could use decent feedback for a change, I'm beginning to think I'm putting too much stock in this idea. I need to accept that, since this is basically a first attempt, there's probably going to be more things that I do wrong than things that I do right. But let this not be a reason for me to get sloppy. Indeed, if I had the time and energy to worry about one person's opinion, I should have used that time and energy to worry about getting this game to "Complete" status.
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In any event, some people curse games with such "rips", while others praise them.
Not everybody is a composer and not every song on the internet is virginal and unused. Eff people who are anti-rips.
The graphical style is very much VX RTP.
Is it "very much" or is it JUST VX RTP? Graphics that fit RTP style = fine. VX RTP = ugly, garish and awful.
There are moments in the game that are written to cater to those who know nothing about RPGs. As such, some explanations could be a tad long-winded. Hopefully, I could be randomly confusing in-game material with material in the manual.
Super easy. "Would you like to hear more? >Yes >No"
Seems pretty good though, I have no major objections to anything here that would make an instant fail.
Don't underestimate the value of feedback, no matter the form. Link actually stopped his project after his PoF for a whole new engine.
The result doesn't really matter and you're always free to dismiss my thoughts about anything about your game. Just take what makes sense to you and reject what you think is irrelevant.
I'm quite happy to read that you are considering all those things. This kind of introspection can't hurt.
The result doesn't really matter and you're always free to dismiss my thoughts about anything about your game. Just take what makes sense to you and reject what you think is irrelevant.
I'm quite happy to read that you are considering all those things. This kind of introspection can't hurt.
author=Creation
Don't underestimate the value of feedback, no matter the form. Link actually stopped his project after his PoF for a whole new engine.
Well, just to clarify, it wasn't the feedback from the PoF that made me decide to change engines :P I've been hearing that about the hit detection since I first posted my game here.
It was the fact that Rhuan offered to walk me through the Sphere engine and I found it so easy to use that I changed my mind. The PoF attention enabled the connection to Rhuan, so for that I'm grateful.
Alright, I tried out the game. I'm gonna be honest, I didn't much like it. I'll give whatever feedback I can about the game though!
-First thing I remember most: The interchangeability of the First and Last names. Or rather, you call one girl something that starts with a J, you talk to her, then your "objective" later is talk to someone with a "U" name. I just went and talked to everyone until I found her... who was my friend there that I knew by another name. I'd go with saying their full name only to introduce themselves, and keep to only one name consistently throughout.
-I'm sorry, the girl that is popular whose name starts with an M, she talks too much and is completely boring. Well, actually none of the characters are interesting. I have a hard time telling them apart. Actually you get some random Katai guy in the dream school but are walking around with some glasses guy in the normal one. I didn't even notice the swap was pulled on me. I looked in the editor and realized that because in game that never came to mind. No wait. The only likable character was the old man that sells you his "friends".
Speaking of which, you can't tell what any of the items do. You put a random unhelpful description. I am fine with that if it would have also accompanied something that described what it does. Coffee? Does this recover my HP or MP? I used some drink to try to heal a character and it recovered their MP instead. If anything, this should first be gameplay descriptive, and then you can add flavor to it.
The next thing, yes the maps. They're bland, and it's not because they aren't filled with stuff. One of the bigger problems is lack of variety. Each school floor looks the same, the dungeon maps are just floor, wall, and 2 objects so they come out looking like the same types of things. I'd even suggest getting new tiles, but if you're gonna work from those, then you could at least do a few things to add variety: Varying heights, changing up the graphics sometimes, adding landmarks (something really unique looking so it can be used as reference). Otherwise they just end up as labyrinths full of enemies that you just pretty much run from. Not just the dungeon parts, but the school as well. You can perhaps make each floor different, and just do something to make it look more unique. Instead of the 1 tile stairs up/down, you might want to use the stairs tiles
I think the battle system has been tackled by someone else, but you should probably just give people some diverse skills even at the start. They don't need elemental magic to do so. Sportsguy, why can't he do some sports related skills? "Hit enemy with a bat: Damage + Stun" Lecturer (I don't remember what that girl was): Boring Lecture to put enemies to sleep. Nurse type character, has a basic heal. Chrono Trigger had a variety of skills for each character before they managed to learn spells. It kept people from doing things like Attack, Attack, Attack, Special Attack, Special Attack, Special Attack. Also, despite elementals, it was pretty much grouped into: "Guys use attack spells that get stronger, Girls use some attack spells and have healing".
Not only that, but there's a lot of enemy groups. The more enemy groups you're putting on the map, the far less likely you'll want to fight them all. I just zipped right past them and fought only when I was blocked. I'm glad they weren't random encounter.
I wasn't a fan of the puzzles honestly. The rock pushing is so common and it's just slow, so it doesn't even feel like fun, just a chore. The next ones are word puzzles and I didn't like it at all. Plus if you entered the correct name wrong (Like say, "Tree" instead of "tree"), you still had to fight enemies for it and it was counted as wrong. The Fire statues were battle 3 enemy groups one after another. I just happily clicked thinking it was one slightly stronger group, not some succession of enemies.
And all this... and you don't really accomplish anything. This is the same "GO TO ELEMENTAL CAVE" type of thing except you do it from a high school instead of a generic overworld.
Then everything was all default, it would have at least added some personality to have the characters shown in battle or something instead of just fighting RTP enemies. A new windowskin too would have been good.
The audio is mixed. I'm familiar with Treasure Hunter G so while I like those songs, it reminds me of THG instead. But they were better than just flipping back to RTP for a boss song of all things.
I dunno what else to tell you. It was short but nothing really happened. I think you need to put more work overall. Sorry, that's all I got now!
-First thing I remember most: The interchangeability of the First and Last names. Or rather, you call one girl something that starts with a J, you talk to her, then your "objective" later is talk to someone with a "U" name. I just went and talked to everyone until I found her... who was my friend there that I knew by another name. I'd go with saying their full name only to introduce themselves, and keep to only one name consistently throughout.
-I'm sorry, the girl that is popular whose name starts with an M, she talks too much and is completely boring. Well, actually none of the characters are interesting. I have a hard time telling them apart. Actually you get some random Katai guy in the dream school but are walking around with some glasses guy in the normal one. I didn't even notice the swap was pulled on me. I looked in the editor and realized that because in game that never came to mind. No wait. The only likable character was the old man that sells you his "friends".
Speaking of which, you can't tell what any of the items do. You put a random unhelpful description. I am fine with that if it would have also accompanied something that described what it does. Coffee? Does this recover my HP or MP? I used some drink to try to heal a character and it recovered their MP instead. If anything, this should first be gameplay descriptive, and then you can add flavor to it.
The next thing, yes the maps. They're bland, and it's not because they aren't filled with stuff. One of the bigger problems is lack of variety. Each school floor looks the same, the dungeon maps are just floor, wall, and 2 objects so they come out looking like the same types of things. I'd even suggest getting new tiles, but if you're gonna work from those, then you could at least do a few things to add variety: Varying heights, changing up the graphics sometimes, adding landmarks (something really unique looking so it can be used as reference). Otherwise they just end up as labyrinths full of enemies that you just pretty much run from. Not just the dungeon parts, but the school as well. You can perhaps make each floor different, and just do something to make it look more unique. Instead of the 1 tile stairs up/down, you might want to use the stairs tiles
I think the battle system has been tackled by someone else, but you should probably just give people some diverse skills even at the start. They don't need elemental magic to do so. Sportsguy, why can't he do some sports related skills? "Hit enemy with a bat: Damage + Stun" Lecturer (I don't remember what that girl was): Boring Lecture to put enemies to sleep. Nurse type character, has a basic heal. Chrono Trigger had a variety of skills for each character before they managed to learn spells. It kept people from doing things like Attack, Attack, Attack, Special Attack, Special Attack, Special Attack. Also, despite elementals, it was pretty much grouped into: "Guys use attack spells that get stronger, Girls use some attack spells and have healing".
Not only that, but there's a lot of enemy groups. The more enemy groups you're putting on the map, the far less likely you'll want to fight them all. I just zipped right past them and fought only when I was blocked. I'm glad they weren't random encounter.
I wasn't a fan of the puzzles honestly. The rock pushing is so common and it's just slow, so it doesn't even feel like fun, just a chore. The next ones are word puzzles and I didn't like it at all. Plus if you entered the correct name wrong (Like say, "Tree" instead of "tree"), you still had to fight enemies for it and it was counted as wrong. The Fire statues were battle 3 enemy groups one after another. I just happily clicked thinking it was one slightly stronger group, not some succession of enemies.
And all this... and you don't really accomplish anything. This is the same "GO TO ELEMENTAL CAVE" type of thing except you do it from a high school instead of a generic overworld.
Then everything was all default, it would have at least added some personality to have the characters shown in battle or something instead of just fighting RTP enemies. A new windowskin too would have been good.
The audio is mixed. I'm familiar with Treasure Hunter G so while I like those songs, it reminds me of THG instead. But they were better than just flipping back to RTP for a boss song of all things.
I dunno what else to tell you. It was short but nothing really happened. I think you need to put more work overall. Sorry, that's all I got now!
Is it "very much" or is it JUST VX RTP? Graphics that fit RTP style = fine. VX RTP = ugly, garish and awful.
If one is inclined to think that default RTP is ugly, wouldn't that person think that graphics that could easily be mistaken for default RTP think those graphics would be ugly as well? I dunno. Perhaps I've misinterpreted something here.
I hate to say admit this, but Ocean's post probably has more useful information for me than any other feedback I've gotten thus far. It's given me a few things to think about, certainly. In any event, I want to try a certain exercise in characterization before I do anything major to the design.
Judging from what I saw from Ocean's post, there's a version that I haven't played (I don't remember there being a rock pushing puzzle) so I don't know if my criticism will be up to date.
One problem with giving feedback regarding the maps was that they were some sort of supernatural trials in a supernatural world. That means the map aren't governed by that many rules. They can be extremely unrealistic, they just have to look good. That makes it hard to give any specific directions since just to much is available. Further, they were so short I could not see any specific trait in them. Had I been able to spot a specific trait in the maps, I could have tried telling you how to make the best out of those traits or something. As it is (was?) it's hard to give you advice since all I knew is that the maps should look better, but I have no idea how.
I have one tip though. Take a look at this map first: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/sms/golvellius/golvellius/maps/crawkyforest.jpg
Ignore the weird artifact near the middle. What we have here is a forest made by a rather primitive tileset. Notice however the contrast between clearings and the denser parts of the forest. Also notice how the game differs between the two big clearings by putting water in one and dead treas in the other. I suggest you use a similar strategy, keep it simple, but don't make everything look the same.
One problem with giving feedback regarding the maps was that they were some sort of supernatural trials in a supernatural world. That means the map aren't governed by that many rules. They can be extremely unrealistic, they just have to look good. That makes it hard to give any specific directions since just to much is available. Further, they were so short I could not see any specific trait in them. Had I been able to spot a specific trait in the maps, I could have tried telling you how to make the best out of those traits or something. As it is (was?) it's hard to give you advice since all I knew is that the maps should look better, but I have no idea how.
I have one tip though. Take a look at this map first: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/sms/golvellius/golvellius/maps/crawkyforest.jpg
Ignore the weird artifact near the middle. What we have here is a forest made by a rather primitive tileset. Notice however the contrast between clearings and the denser parts of the forest. Also notice how the game differs between the two big clearings by putting water in one and dead treas in the other. I suggest you use a similar strategy, keep it simple, but don't make everything look the same.
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