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How do you guys, and girls map so well? No matter what I do my maps looks pretty bad. Tutorials don't seem to help me for some reason. What could I try differently?
Rose_Guardian- 04/26/2016 08:30 PM
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Closepractice.
okay more seriously, my #1 focus for mapping is keeping the eye moving.
look at this shit. everything is in a straight line.
people and nature don't design this way (unless it's 100% intentional symmetry, like in a cathedral or something). so, just do your best to MiX iT uP
Line structure:
Obviously, still a shit map, but it's a far better base. You could conceivably turn this into an interesting-looking town with a winding path and some trees and and a well and such. Not putting the same shapes/colors in straight lines means that the eye wanders more. You can also use this to draw the player to an important spot:
wow look at the tower against the blue sky. i wonder if i should go there?
also, a joking-but-kinda-serious mapping tutorial is inside of this game: http://rpgmaker.net/games/8708/
also a super-shitty "tutorial" here, showing my ground-to-top style:
okay more seriously, my #1 focus for mapping is keeping the eye moving.
look at this shit. everything is in a straight line.
people and nature don't design this way (unless it's 100% intentional symmetry, like in a cathedral or something). so, just do your best to MiX iT uP
Line structure:
Obviously, still a shit map, but it's a far better base. You could conceivably turn this into an interesting-looking town with a winding path and some trees and and a well and such. Not putting the same shapes/colors in straight lines means that the eye wanders more. You can also use this to draw the player to an important spot:
wow look at the tower against the blue sky. i wonder if i should go there?
also, a joking-but-kinda-serious mapping tutorial is inside of this game: http://rpgmaker.net/games/8708/
also a super-shitty "tutorial" here, showing my ground-to-top style:
Honestly, just keep practicing. It takes time to learn new skills and some people learn some skills faster than others, but if you keep working at it you'll get there eventually.
Never settle! If you don't like the way something looks for whatever reason, change it. Don't feel like because you mapped X and put some time into it that it should stay that way forever. Mess with the layout or the design of the map. If you like something but wonder if it could look better just copy that map and paste it onto the map in question and rework it and see if it can be better or should stay the same and then pick whichever one looks better to you. Experiment!
Really though, for myself if I don't like the way it looks I will change it until I'm happy or satisfied. Very seldom do I map something that I'm 100% content with the first time around.
Also, even minor edits can go a long way for your vision, doesn't even have to be anything special. It's also good to keep things busy but not too busy that the screen is a tile throw up fest.
Really though, for myself if I don't like the way it looks I will change it until I'm happy or satisfied. Very seldom do I map something that I'm 100% content with the first time around.
Also, even minor edits can go a long way for your vision, doesn't even have to be anything special. It's also good to keep things busy but not too busy that the screen is a tile throw up fest.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I happen to know that, in at least 15% of cases, the answer is "contract with a demon."
I tend to use this rule of thumb a lot. Take the default map size of whatever engine you're using and try to make just that one area look visually interesting. Fill it up without clutter. Like Craze said, keep the eye moving. Then you can expand the map and move it around.
And never, ever start making a map in the editor that starts at 40x40, 50x50 or more, because I can guarantee you it's going to look horrible. Not to mention, the level designer would probably feel a bit stumped as to fill out all that blank space. ><
And never, ever start making a map in the editor that starts at 40x40, 50x50 or more, because I can guarantee you it's going to look horrible. Not to mention, the level designer would probably feel a bit stumped as to fill out all that blank space. ><
D-Don't do that. Don't fill it up with clutter. Bad Luchino! No!
You want to keep in mind white space and how you use it. Don't make your players' eyes spazz out when they look at your map - you want clear, defined lines of travel and points of interest but you do not want to overwhelm the player with too many details.
Larger maps are okay once you have enough skills to plan ahead or fill maps (or both!) but try not to go too big and think about what your map is going to be doing for you. Is it just a path connecting two points? Is it a point of interest or a plot-relevant area? Are scenes going to be happening in the map? Is it just a pit-stop?
If possible, keep it small, but remember that you can always increase the size a bit if you need it. Don't go crazy and increase by 10s, though - try 2-3 tiles at a time. You'll be surprised how much you can do with limited space.
Think about what the areas are outside of their usage as well. The history of the place in question. Is it a harbour town? Maybe it's a small country farm? An abandoned cottage in the middle of an overgrown forest? Make lists of things that you might find in those instances and check out google images for some ideas, too.
Keep in mind that it is for a game, though, so if you need to break a 'realism' point, do so, however unless you're making a game that is deliberately surreal, try to stick to realistic plans where possible. For example, carpets that form weird shapes are a facepalm, or a one-tile window that sits on the top part of a three-tile wall.
Think about size and scope - rule of thumb is one tile is about one meter. Look at how much you can fit in something of that size.
Most of all, practice. Take some maps that you like the look of from other games and try to replicate them in a play-around project. Look at how others have used the tiles you're using. Actually look at maps and try to dissect why the mapper put the path like this or made trees look like that.
You want to keep in mind white space and how you use it. Don't make your players' eyes spazz out when they look at your map - you want clear, defined lines of travel and points of interest but you do not want to overwhelm the player with too many details.
Larger maps are okay once you have enough skills to plan ahead or fill maps (or both!) but try not to go too big and think about what your map is going to be doing for you. Is it just a path connecting two points? Is it a point of interest or a plot-relevant area? Are scenes going to be happening in the map? Is it just a pit-stop?
If possible, keep it small, but remember that you can always increase the size a bit if you need it. Don't go crazy and increase by 10s, though - try 2-3 tiles at a time. You'll be surprised how much you can do with limited space.
Think about what the areas are outside of their usage as well. The history of the place in question. Is it a harbour town? Maybe it's a small country farm? An abandoned cottage in the middle of an overgrown forest? Make lists of things that you might find in those instances and check out google images for some ideas, too.
Keep in mind that it is for a game, though, so if you need to break a 'realism' point, do so, however unless you're making a game that is deliberately surreal, try to stick to realistic plans where possible. For example, carpets that form weird shapes are a facepalm, or a one-tile window that sits on the top part of a three-tile wall.
Think about size and scope - rule of thumb is one tile is about one meter. Look at how much you can fit in something of that size.
Most of all, practice. Take some maps that you like the look of from other games and try to replicate them in a play-around project. Look at how others have used the tiles you're using. Actually look at maps and try to dissect why the mapper put the path like this or made trees look like that.
Gredge109
4151
This is one of those things I reeeally had to work on, and I wound up picking up tips from other creators quite a bit to improve my own style. Playing other people's RPG Maker games helped a lot. There's a temptation to mainly play fully-custom games, but I especially recommend - when learning how to map - playing games made with very well-done RTP, as that's what you'll most likely be using. And some creators have fantastic RTP mapping skills. I still have many things to learn about mapping with the RTP, but I learned to love it. Which brings me to my next question...
Liberty, have you thought about making another mapping tutorial or article by chance? Something like a Rules of Thumb?
There's a lot I wish I knew about mapping.
Such as general size standards (20x20, 30x30, etc.), or starting from the default (17x13) and then expanding it out. And then dungeons and caverns: should an entire dungeon floor be on one map, or should it be split? If it's split, then by how much, and for what reason is it not one map? Things like that.
And most importantly this nagging thing:
Should the ceiling tiles be repeated around the edges, or should only the outline be mapped and the rest of the ceiling black? Things like that.
That would be an awesome article/tutorial I'm sure several people would benefit from, and google hasn't led me to any tutorials that cover dungeons and caverns in particular.
Liberty, have you thought about making another mapping tutorial or article by chance? Something like a Rules of Thumb?
There's a lot I wish I knew about mapping.
Such as general size standards (20x20, 30x30, etc.), or starting from the default (17x13) and then expanding it out. And then dungeons and caverns: should an entire dungeon floor be on one map, or should it be split? If it's split, then by how much, and for what reason is it not one map? Things like that.
And most importantly this nagging thing:
Should the ceiling tiles be repeated around the edges, or should only the outline be mapped and the rest of the ceiling black? Things like that.
That would be an awesome article/tutorial I'm sure several people would benefit from, and google hasn't led me to any tutorials that cover dungeons and caverns in particular.
Rose_Guardian
2346
Thank you everyone. Sorry for the late reply I went to bed last night.
@Gredge109 That map you showed me looks pretty decent actually. Don't know if it is yours, but it's not bad.
@Gredge109 That map you showed me looks pretty decent actually. Don't know if it is yours, but it's not bad.
Yeah, don't do the "clutter" thing. Some types of maps like factories or office spaces can slide with clutter, but a grassland or a forest can be the most beautiful map in the world and I wouldn't feel immersed or wowed if I'm squeezing in and out of it like a hamster maze. Think of both how the map looks and how the player is going to interact with it.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
It mostly depends on the "clutter;" how much the filler stands out from the background base, how similar each bit is to the other bits, etc.
Really, you might look up some tutorials on composition. Not all of them are relevant (foreground/middleground/background doesn't quite work the same way; you have no choice but to work with a boring-ass grid) and honestly the Golden Ratio stuff is pretty bunk, but things like focal points and color contrast are really, really useful.
Really, you might look up some tutorials on composition. Not all of them are relevant (foreground/middleground/background doesn't quite work the same way; you have no choice but to work with a boring-ass grid) and honestly the Golden Ratio stuff is pretty bunk, but things like focal points and color contrast are really, really useful.
Clutter can be used well, but yeah it depends on the area, really.
I like to do post apocalypse and zombie games so clutter works well for my environments of ruined cities and ravaged landscapes. When I think of clutter I think of debris and junk laying around. Piles of rocks or papers strewn about empty streets. More traditional jrpgs and the like don't usually have that stuff unless it's a ruin or something. It's also hard to work with clutter if you're using RTP, because it stands out really well.
I wouldn't say disregard clutter entirely because it has its place.
I like to do post apocalypse and zombie games so clutter works well for my environments of ruined cities and ravaged landscapes. When I think of clutter I think of debris and junk laying around. Piles of rocks or papers strewn about empty streets. More traditional jrpgs and the like don't usually have that stuff unless it's a ruin or something. It's also hard to work with clutter if you're using RTP, because it stands out really well.
I wouldn't say disregard clutter entirely because it has its place.
author=Luchino
Fill it up without clutter.
Think you misread my post, Libby. xD
And keep nature as 'organised chaos'. We don't want to see trees, plants, shrubs, flowers etc. planted in neat little rows in wildernesses, unless its in a park, mansion, royal grounds etc.
I think all the well-known level designers on this site should get together and compose some sort of 'Mapping Bible' with examples of our works.
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