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Heartache 101 ~Sour into Sweet~
@Flowerthief
The way I see it this game draws from both the general rpg world, in the form of the rpg maker board navigation and the stat leveling, and the date sim/vn. I think in general it leans more towards the VN-part, because the story is the most important part in the game.
I'm not sure why they didn't help you much with game, especially since there was quite an interest on those forums about idolcraft.
I for one found it refreshing the first time I played this because instead of 'merely' making the right choices, I also had to work for it(as in, raise stats). So not sure why the lack of interest from their side.
About the custom content, obviously sharing the big word. So for example you bundle the original tachi file with the game. People will mostly use that, because it allows them to easily make an original characters. Some may add some news items or whatnot. If they would upload that to the website, other people can just it. But we could also add those items to the original tachi that gets bundled with the game. Then in the end you would have a psd file that acts like the character-creation-process when you play an (mmo)rpg. You can choose hair, hair color, lips and so on. Like the tachie sets you made before. You could add the different hair combos to the psd and expand the different possibilities.
Same could be done about backgrounds, although more restrictive(because it requires to change the game itself). If people find a background that is suitable for the game(size, style, looks), they could upload it to the site. And once every * weeks you could add them to the game and instead of 66, people could choose from even more places their stories happen.
As for the 3rd part, the story, that's a tough one. The 'hyper' option creates the possibility of having a short, but complete story. Now the challenge is to encourage/facilitate people writing a detailed but incomplete story, maybe like an 'episode'. But still the question remains, how?>.< I don't have a good idea of how to do that. Enabling stories to be short but still very much rewarding and leaving room for more to build on.
One thing that I must applaud you on, is the manual. When I first read it, I was surprised how much was about the custom content(at that time I was playing, so I was just looking for hints and such). It's quite thorough in explaining and teaching how to make custom content. Most commercial games that offer customization either are 1: difficult to master or 2: only give you the tools without teaching how to use them.
The way I see it this game draws from both the general rpg world, in the form of the rpg maker board navigation and the stat leveling, and the date sim/vn. I think in general it leans more towards the VN-part, because the story is the most important part in the game.
I'm not sure why they didn't help you much with game, especially since there was quite an interest on those forums about idolcraft.
I for one found it refreshing the first time I played this because instead of 'merely' making the right choices, I also had to work for it(as in, raise stats). So not sure why the lack of interest from their side.
About the custom content, obviously sharing the big word. So for example you bundle the original tachi file with the game. People will mostly use that, because it allows them to easily make an original characters. Some may add some news items or whatnot. If they would upload that to the website, other people can just it. But we could also add those items to the original tachi that gets bundled with the game. Then in the end you would have a psd file that acts like the character-creation-process when you play an (mmo)rpg. You can choose hair, hair color, lips and so on. Like the tachie sets you made before. You could add the different hair combos to the psd and expand the different possibilities.
Same could be done about backgrounds, although more restrictive(because it requires to change the game itself). If people find a background that is suitable for the game(size, style, looks), they could upload it to the site. And once every * weeks you could add them to the game and instead of 66, people could choose from even more places their stories happen.
As for the 3rd part, the story, that's a tough one. The 'hyper' option creates the possibility of having a short, but complete story. Now the challenge is to encourage/facilitate people writing a detailed but incomplete story, maybe like an 'episode'. But still the question remains, how?>.< I don't have a good idea of how to do that. Enabling stories to be short but still very much rewarding and leaving room for more to build on.
One thing that I must applaud you on, is the manual. When I first read it, I was surprised how much was about the custom content(at that time I was playing, so I was just looking for hints and such). It's quite thorough in explaining and teaching how to make custom content. Most commercial games that offer customization either are 1: difficult to master or 2: only give you the tools without teaching how to use them.
Heartache 101 ~Sour into Sweet~
I think a big piece of the target audience are the fans of VN's. So people who hang around the forums of renai(forum of the Ren'Py VN engine). The biggest similarities would be that both aim to provide a nice story.
If I compare the two of them, this game and the ren'py engine, I come to the following conclusions: The ren'py engine is not that hard to use and provides more custom options in terms of image placement, event sequence, etc. Of course comparing 1 game to a game engine is a bit unfair, but I do think this game has 2 advantages. Because it uses the rpgmaker engine, it opens all kinds of options that are impossible or near impossible with ren'py. And the 2nd one is that instead of people having to make a whole new story/game from scratch, they already have an existing universe of characters, plots, images, locations and such.
I think the challenge is not only to reach the people who are interested in this and just haven't found this site yet. Like me, I found this place by searching this game's name after following a dead link in a readme of this game, which I stumbled upon on a game-download-blog(yeah, a long way).
But also to encourage the making of custom content. One way to do that is to provide people with more tools. So like the original psd that was used for the tachi, but not only translated, but also with more items added. Or encourage people who add new items to their tachi, like the "21 Ways"-character who has a new hat and guitar, to upload their changes too. That way there will be more ways for people to easily customize their character. Same thing with the backgrounds, a dozen more can be added to accommodate people.
Now this would make it more convenient for people to write their own story, because they can already create something unique without too much effort, so the only thing left is to write a story.
That brings me two the second point, writing a story. That is a big hurdle to take. I think a lot of people who played this game have thought of the idea to write a story. But once you start writing, it can often lead to a disappointment. Not because the tools are bad, but a lot of people are not used to writing, or in my case, my ambitions are too high(still hoping I'll finish it one day). A good way to tackle this is to promote and facilitate shorter stories. Now I must admit that's easier said than done, because I don't really have a good idea about that either.
But if people would get the feeling that writing a story that consists of only 10 stories(in the editor) could already be nice and meaningful, it will motivate them to do so. This could be achieved by several people working together on 1 story, so divided one character. Or something else, where a short story still feels worthy enough to be released, but it leaves room for adding more later.
Just as a disclaimer:
I think the game is great, and I really like the fact that it allows for customization. Especially since it's not possible in most games or a real pain in the ass. I'm writing this, and look at things critically , because I think the idea has potential and I hope it will become a huge success.
Edit:
Or maybe a way to convince the hentai fans to focus their attention to a non 18+ game like this, which offers more story and challenge:p.
If I compare the two of them, this game and the ren'py engine, I come to the following conclusions: The ren'py engine is not that hard to use and provides more custom options in terms of image placement, event sequence, etc. Of course comparing 1 game to a game engine is a bit unfair, but I do think this game has 2 advantages. Because it uses the rpgmaker engine, it opens all kinds of options that are impossible or near impossible with ren'py. And the 2nd one is that instead of people having to make a whole new story/game from scratch, they already have an existing universe of characters, plots, images, locations and such.
I think the challenge is not only to reach the people who are interested in this and just haven't found this site yet. Like me, I found this place by searching this game's name after following a dead link in a readme of this game, which I stumbled upon on a game-download-blog(yeah, a long way).
But also to encourage the making of custom content. One way to do that is to provide people with more tools. So like the original psd that was used for the tachi, but not only translated, but also with more items added. Or encourage people who add new items to their tachi, like the "21 Ways"-character who has a new hat and guitar, to upload their changes too. That way there will be more ways for people to easily customize their character. Same thing with the backgrounds, a dozen more can be added to accommodate people.
Now this would make it more convenient for people to write their own story, because they can already create something unique without too much effort, so the only thing left is to write a story.
That brings me two the second point, writing a story. That is a big hurdle to take. I think a lot of people who played this game have thought of the idea to write a story. But once you start writing, it can often lead to a disappointment. Not because the tools are bad, but a lot of people are not used to writing, or in my case, my ambitions are too high(still hoping I'll finish it one day). A good way to tackle this is to promote and facilitate shorter stories. Now I must admit that's easier said than done, because I don't really have a good idea about that either.
But if people would get the feeling that writing a story that consists of only 10 stories(in the editor) could already be nice and meaningful, it will motivate them to do so. This could be achieved by several people working together on 1 story, so divided one character. Or something else, where a short story still feels worthy enough to be released, but it leaves room for adding more later.
Just as a disclaimer:
I think the game is great, and I really like the fact that it allows for customization. Especially since it's not possible in most games or a real pain in the ass. I'm writing this, and look at things critically , because I think the idea has potential and I hope it will become a huge success.
Edit:
Or maybe a way to convince the hentai fans to focus their attention to a non 18+ game like this, which offers more story and challenge:p.
Custom content (archived discussion)
author=LordNight
*edit*
wait, then it is necessary for me to remove all those quotes?
i just thought that its good to separate conversation from thought bubble
I don't think it's necessary, but it's different from all the other files. Most stories seem to use () around text for thought bubbles or narration like (on my way to the classroom). And all the speech doesn't seem to be surrounded by anything.
I think it would nicer if all stories use the same syntax/setup, but it's all just a matter of looks.
Heartache 101 ~Sour into Sweet~
author=flowerthief
Ah, user-defined variables? I can see the merit in that.
What if, instead of the user defining them, a set number of stock variables are provided? For instance VAR1, VAR2, VAR3, etc. Those variables would be unique within a sub-directory. So if User A creates a story that fiddles with VAR1 and User B also creates a story that fiddles with VAR1, as long as the two story files are in different directories it will be okay because they are actually considered different variables. That's the implementation I would lean towards.
Yeah, something like that would work. Just some random names for the variable or a few specific and a few generic names would do it. I didn't mean to suggest an option for the user to define the name of the variable themselves, because that would only cause more work for you and it has little advantage.
What if I slipped in frequent links leading back to the table of contents
That might make it easier for people. I'm just saying it because when I started writing a story I noticed I kept scrolling back and forth because I wasn't sure where in this big list I could find the explanation I was looking for. But it's up to you. I already divided the help file into 7 separate files to make it more convenient for myself.
On a completely different topic: Too bad I came across this game about 6 months after it went public, seems some of the initial participants are gone. Although I'm convinced there are still a lot of people out there who would be interested in the game if they knew about it.
Heartache 101 ~Sour into Sweet~
author=MarrendI read the custom content pages and I found what you mentioned(bottom of the page). Basically it would be impractical because it's a way to possibly screw up other character's route, as in making it impossible or too easy to pass a attribute check. Although telling people to turn on the clean mode would prevent interference with the built-in character it still create risks if the story is played with other custom characters as well.
Talk of something akin to <ATTRIBUTE> UP or <ATTRIBUTE> DOWN, or like code, was discussed during the creation of 21 Ways, but nothing ever came of it. I think flowertheif presented a valid reason for not including it, but I forget what the reasoning was.
Edit: And it's mentioned in the FAQ of the website. Although that one only mentions the official stats.
In that case I would still like to suggest nr 1b. Adding a custom(if needed hidden) stat. This would allow us to increase that stat through the storyline, making sure the player would pass/fail certain checks. In theory it would also be possible by using "story * = done" as some kind of stat, but that would be complicated in certain stories.
Being able to set the value of the custom stat would also be cool(if possible), because then you can make sure someone passes a check, without having to know the background. I would like to avoid telling people "you have to have at least 40 look" or just downright make them fail an event. It's possible to warn them to increase their stat, but that doesn't give as much flexbility.
author=MarrendThat's true, I just checked and it's indeed already there. I thought it wasn't possible because I hadn't see it happen before yet.
I'm not sure what you mean by "multiple possible endings". Does that functionality not already happen in some way, shape, or form?
Heartache 101 ~Sour into Sweet~
I don't know if you still add new functionality to the game or not, but I have some suggestions/ideas for the custom-content-creation.
1. Option to manipulate stats, so mind/soul/money,etc. Because right now it's limited to affection only.
1a. Preferably able to manipulate stats with an amount defined in script, so like "MIND = +20" or "MIND = DECREASE 20".
1b. Some custom stats/variable. Like limit it to numbers only maybe. That way we can for example introduce a different stat or even a secondary currency. This also makes it easier to control/predict the value of that stat. Can use some generic names for the stats: Hearts, token or whatever.
That's actually the suggestion I think is the nicest. I think some other people would also like it.
Apart from that I added another two suggestions, which I don't care as much for, but I thought I'd share them anyway.
2. Testing multiple OR conditions. For example:
(CONDITION = DAY 1
CONDITION = NOT DAY 8)
OR
(CONDITION = DAY 14
CONDITION = NOT DAY 21)
OR
(CONDITION = DAY 28
CONDITION = NOT DAY 35)
3. Multiple possible endings
Ps. Stuff like custom images would of course also be cool, but I tried to stick with suggestions that I think might be technically possible(well, nr 1 maybe). Although I know a custom image taking up the whole background could be used for the same purpose.
Edit:
Perhaps cut the help-file into several files? Because right now it's just one long page. The index on top is convenient, but you still have to scroll back and forth quite a bit.
Edit2:
Removed suggestion nr 3 because Marrend pointed out that functionality already exists.
1. Option to manipulate stats, so mind/soul/money,etc. Because right now it's limited to affection only.
1a. Preferably able to manipulate stats with an amount defined in script, so like "MIND = +20" or "MIND = DECREASE 20".
1b. Some custom stats/variable. Like limit it to numbers only maybe. That way we can for example introduce a different stat or even a secondary currency. This also makes it easier to control/predict the value of that stat. Can use some generic names for the stats: Hearts, token or whatever.
That's actually the suggestion I think is the nicest. I think some other people would also like it.
Apart from that I added another two suggestions, which I don't care as much for, but I thought I'd share them anyway.
2. Testing multiple OR conditions. For example:
(CONDITION = DAY 1
CONDITION = NOT DAY 8)
OR
(CONDITION = DAY 14
CONDITION = NOT DAY 21)
OR
(CONDITION = DAY 28
CONDITION = NOT DAY 35)
Ps. Stuff like custom images would of course also be cool, but I tried to stick with suggestions that I think might be technically possible(well, nr 1 maybe). Although I know a custom image taking up the whole background could be used for the same purpose.
Edit:
Perhaps cut the help-file into several files? Because right now it's just one long page. The index on top is convenient, but you still have to scroll back and forth quite a bit.
Edit2:
Removed suggestion nr 3 because Marrend pointed out that functionality already exists.
Testing
author=Marrend
I know you don't have a computer at the moment, but I do want you to be aware of a little snag I've run across.
I'm trying to test STORY 1. The particular story I want to test has has Masako, Aoi, and introduces a new character.
Script 'Story test Console' line 78: TypeError occured
no implicit conversion from nil to integer
I must assume that something in my new character's story file is messing things up. I used the Notepad++ route, but as far as I can tell, there's nothing technically wrong with the code. However, since we want to eventually get to the bottom of this, here's what I got so far for the story file. Forgive the hide tag:
joruri_profile.txt, masako_profile.txt, jun_and_aoi.txt
# Including the base profile for this character, her relation, and the cameo character (Aoi Watanabe) for this .
STORY 1
CONDITION = 3 DONE IN masako_story.txt
# The player must have successfully meet Masako.
# Aoi does make a cameo appearance here, but knowing who she is should not affect the outcome of this event.
INTRODUCE = 19
PLACE = Children's Park
After looking into it and testing I found out the problem with your Joruri script!:D
Apparently you have to put PLACE before INTRODUCE. So if you switch those 2 lines around, it should work.
Edit: I'm not sure why it's like this though, because the 21 story has INTRODUCE before PLACE and that one does pass the story-test-mode
Edit2: The ID mentioned at the INTRODUCE lines never seem to match the real ID of the character. I checked the custom content and they're all like that. The built-in character seem to be different, their introduce ID seems to match their real one.
Edit3: And the reason why you have this issue and 21 and other stories don't have it is......the PLACE. It seems to give this error if the PLACE is in the city, so (Train, Library...Children's Park...Club..etc) but it doesn't give an error if the intro happens in the school.
Might have to put this in the manual.
Custom content (archived discussion)
Notepad++ Hima Syntax
@hima
I've made a zip of Notepad++ which includes your syntax highlight.
Link
Notepad++ does have a 7zip/zip version, but that one includes everything, which might not be useful for the people who are just going to use this for Hearthache. So what I did is download the installer version and installed it using these settings:
Auto-completion Files: Off (this is for other languages)
Plugins: Spell-Checker + Plugin Manager
Localization: All On
Themes: All On
Auto-Updater On
User Manual: On
Don't use %APPDATA%: On (else it would be places in the wrong place)
Other 3: Off
The settings I didn't mention, like Context Menu Entry and such aren't relevant because those settings are independent off the program.
Alternatively, people can also just download & install Notepad++ the normal way and just add this file:
Link
Only works if you haven't added any other user "defined languages yourself". If you don't know what I'm talking about, you didn't, don't worry.
It seems that importing the heartache.xml into Notepad++ doesn't do anything complicated. It basically copies the entire content to the userDefineLang.xml file and removes "fontName=""" and a space from the file.
English Character model
Also, after downloading the model-psd from the japanese site, I've gone ahead and tidy it up a bit. I added english names to all the layers and put them in folders so hopefully it will be easier to use. I'm also putting a link to it here, hopefully it will make the step to using it to create custom content smaller.
Link
Edit: I just noticed that in one of the previous pages there's also a post with an edited psd-file. Maybe put a link to the english-psd up somewhere so it's easier for people to find?
Edit2: Changed the link for the translated psd. I put a folder inside another folder by mistake.
@hima
I've made a zip of Notepad++ which includes your syntax highlight.
Link
Notepad++ does have a 7zip/zip version, but that one includes everything, which might not be useful for the people who are just going to use this for Hearthache. So what I did is download the installer version and installed it using these settings:
Auto-completion Files: Off (this is for other languages)
Plugins: Spell-Checker + Plugin Manager
Localization: All On
Themes: All On
Auto-Updater On
User Manual: On
Don't use %APPDATA%: On (else it would be places in the wrong place)
Other 3: Off
The settings I didn't mention, like Context Menu Entry and such aren't relevant because those settings are independent off the program.
Alternatively, people can also just download & install Notepad++ the normal way and just add this file:
Link
Only works if you haven't added any other user "defined languages yourself". If you don't know what I'm talking about, you didn't, don't worry.
It seems that importing the heartache.xml into Notepad++ doesn't do anything complicated. It basically copies the entire content to the userDefineLang.xml file and removes "fontName=""" and a space from the file.
English Character model
Also, after downloading the model-psd from the japanese site, I've gone ahead and tidy it up a bit. I added english names to all the layers and put them in folders so hopefully it will be easier to use. I'm also putting a link to it here, hopefully it will make the step to using it to create custom content smaller.
Link
Edit: I just noticed that in one of the previous pages there's also a post with an edited psd-file. Maybe put a link to the english-psd up somewhere so it's easier for people to find?
Edit2: Changed the link for the translated psd. I put a folder inside another folder by mistake.
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