KURAIKEN'S PROFILE

author=Liberty
Mirak is not inventing shit for fun. He's right on the money. We don't know you, we don't know if we can trust you. You want to get work from people. So the question is this:

What do we get if the game fails?

That's what it boils down to. You're asking for a lot of work from someone and your expectation seems to be "Do a lot of stuff for free because you want to see the game made. Maybe you'll get recompensation, but probably not."

Creating spritesets is hard work. You don't seem to understand how much it can cost - in both time and effort. People deserve something for their time and you keep saying "IF IT FAILS" as though you're expecting it to fail and fall through. So that's their time and effort wasted.

Yeah, you keep brining that up. Being honest about the possibility of failure is something that *every* indie dev should be. There's no such thing as an idea game that does not run that risk.
Yet my honesty is now seemingly a horrible violation of all that's just and right. I should promise people the stars and fool them into my team with expectations that may or may not turn out. Brilliant idea.

author=Liberty
Why would they bother to work with you?

Because they're interested in the game, want the opportunity to gain some experience, want to find out what it's like? There's a lot of reasons.

And what you seem to be ignoring is that you could ask me the same question.
Why am I working for no money? I'm not the guy who came up with the idea. I joined when the artist was in trouble and didn't have a way forward because he was lacking a writer. So I joined. I didn't take any of the patreon money, I instead said upfront I'd work for no payment until the first release.

So that's where I'm coming from. I joined, full risk, full time, no guarantee of payment or success, and did all that because it's a challenging experience for a game I believe in.

author=Liberty
The biggest issue seems to be that you don't think you can finance an artist so you're not going to bother. You'd rather look for someone to work for you for free instead, and that isn't going to work out well for you.

Hell, you have an artist as part of your dev team. You could just go "Artist will do some art in exchange for work" and a bunch of people would be happy with that! Of course, you're paying that artist what you can, so expecting them to work for free for someone else is probably not going to fly, is it? Why? Because their time is important to you and them. They probably have a bunch of commissions and work for this project to finish...

Yeah, you keep making up stuff. I'm not paying the artist a dime. You know why? 'cause the artist is the original creator, has the patreon account and is the one who isn't paying me because I refuse to get any compensation until the first release.
All that stuff you're accusing me of unrealistically thinking someone might do, I think someone might do...because I'm exactly the guy who's done all of that.
Which you conveniently ignore to continue with your aggressive rhetorics.

author=Liberty
Just like all the other artists you're expecting to jump at the chance to work on your project for nothing.

Let that sink in. Would you and your artist friend work on someone else's game making portraits or scripts or whatever it is you do on the team for no compensation? No. Because it's not your passion project. Even if you think the project is cool or you'd like to play it after it was released, would you commit to making a ton of stuff for such a game? NO! You'd want compensation of some kind for your work.

SAME.

Let this sink in: my "artist friend" became my artist friend after 5 months of working with him. Before that, I didn't know him, and he's living on the other side of the planet.

So would I join some stranger's project for no compentsation because I believe it's an idea with potential and a challenging experience woth having?

Yes. Because when he was struggeling and couldn't find someone to help him, that's exactly what I've done.

author=kory_toombs
Listing the things that you wanted would have saved you so much time.

There's nothing this community likes more than heckling down people who want people to make games for them.

Maybe offer something like 50 USD, plus 5% on any income the game gets in the first 3 months of release. Then at least you have something to go off of.

That's always a risk, but there are people who are all just ideas, no execution.

It's of course unfortunate if you're the one getting hit - especially since I thought the art in the "game concept" should show that we've created maps, dialogues, character art, overhauled the combat system & designed a menu for it, which should indicate that there's a lot more that we might've done. (There is)

But there's no use crying over spilt milk.

50 USD unfortunately don't get anyone very far, though the artist I'm working with (the guy who originally came up with the game idea) has said he'd be willing to fund a pixel artist out of his pocket.
But it's not a solution either. And 5% of $11 a month will scarcely interest anyone.

We were hoping more for an enthusiast, someone who genuinly wants to make an adult RPG like that, who'd fully join the team & also help out with other stuff and leave their own mark on the game by being part of the decision makers. Down that line, 50-90% equal share of Slay's or mine would've been the go-to cut based on time-commitment.
At the same time, we wanted to avoid people who don't have genuine passion for a project like this.

But especially for complex games, it's difficult to convey everything you want in a post and keep it brief enough not to wall-of-text people to death.

author=Marrend

There's nothing this community likes more than heckling down people who want people to make games for them.

It's kind of a knee-jerk reaction. Where users see a post about getting a team together for a project, authored by a person with zero site history, and has no discernible skill-set of their own. The assumption that the person is the 'idea guy' that will put forth zero effort towards the project, themselves. I haven't been paying too much attention here, so, I don't know if the posts were worded to trigger those kinds of responses in the user-base. Regardless, the site has certainly seen a number of recruitment threads that have gone nowhere.

We've all had projects that end up going nowhere, becomes vaporware, or whatever. It's sometimes very frustrating when that happens, but it can, and does, happen. The thread-author seems cognizant of the possibility of such failure. Though, I think that's why users are questioning this project. They want to know that, despite the possibility of failure, that they will get something out of it. That whatever they get isn't "exposure", because there would effectively be no end-product with which to get exposure from.

It's a fair enough concern.
Unfortunately, I felt it would be very unfair to promise some kind of "absolute security" that the project could not possibly fail. No one can assure or guarantee success, especially in times like this. (Though people who spend most of their time at home working are probably safer.)

I've worked on this for 5 months, the artist has been at it for 8 months+. That sounds pretty dedicated for a full-time investment.

Ultimately, it doesn't seem likely that, given all the negativity, we're going to find a team member or helper here, but it certainly was a learning experience for me.

author=Liberty
Quite frankly, I doubt you'll find any decent artists to join such a large undertaking without the option of at least some sort of recompense. People with skills can easily make money elsewhere on other commissions and see a better payoff than the maybes you present. And get more respect for their creations, too.

I'd recommend you take this to forums that aren't as well-versed in how game development works and the effort required to create great work - which is what you're after. You're after completely custom work for your game and that can drive costs up into the hundreds, if not thousands, if you paid someone who isn't described by you and others as 'a hobbyist pixel artist'.

Sorry, your posts just reek of entitlement. You're not asking for a few poses or edits. You're not asking for a few icons. You're asking for a dedicated pixel artist to create a whole fucking game's worth of various assets just for your game. Exclusivity is going to make that a bitch to fund.

I highly recommend that, until you have a budget to spend on a decent pixel artist, you make use of paid packs or something. There's a lot of stuff out there that should at least fit for stand-in until you have the backing and cash-flow to pay for a proper artist. Your current stance of "we want someone to do a ton of work, possibly for free, depending on sales, maybe, we don't know" is not drawing anyone sane and capable to you, and why would it? They can just go do commissions with a thousand other paying developers instead.

I think you've misunderstood what I've written.

I have, on multiple occasions, said very directly that we're not looking for someone to create everything custom up from the spot.
People have kept claiming that's what I'm saying even though I have already made it very clear that that's not the case.

We have over 100 maps mapped, based on assets we've bought. I've worked in a custom generator project that allows me to create sprites within moments.
I've created photoshop action scripts and other utilities to speed up the processes by making tedious jobs automated.

Right now, the most pressing assets we need are a few wolves based on the artwork for enemies our artist has done, 1 monster character on the map, and blood effects we can put on the floor.

That's it. We're not talking tilsets, we're not talking battle enemies, we're not talking facesets, we're not talking generic npcs, we're not talking busts, we're not talking lightmaps, we're not talking event based light effects, we're not talking combat animations, we're not talking icons, we're not talking combat UI or menu Ui.
All these things are already been handled by me and the artist I'm working together with.

The list here:

• Characters, Animals, Monsters & Objects (pixel characters, not large artwork)
• Tileset work (not entire tilesets but modifications of and additions to existing tilesets)
• Animations (effects such as blood spurts or status effect popups)
• Icons (Weapon, Equipment, States, etc.)

Lists Tilsets, Animations & Icons mostly as things to make it seem like there is actually stuff to work on, which is why it has "modifications, or additions" as in: change this color slightly.
Animations and Icons are primarily 1 animation, a blood spurt for the bleeding effect, and one icon for exactly that bleeding effect.

We already have 3 paid for tilsets that I've modified and edited into ~ 6-7 variants. We've got a full list of icons, except a good bleeding icon.
We're bought 3 animation packs, but we have no blood spurt animation.
Most of this is based on things that are possibly in theory if the artist himself is interested in changing or altering what we already have.

author=Mirak
A note you should add is if you're willing to sign a legal contract that binds you to fulfill the promises of your potential payment methods listed here:

• The game has a patreon that may eventually cover long-term development after we start releasing builds. If we reach the point where there is actual financial support for the game, we’re going to negotiate with the artists to see how to best move forward.

Including giving the pixel artists a legal method of contact in order to ensure that neither you nor your buddy profit in any way without giving the artists their share.

Also could you elaborate a bit on what you mean with "the point where there is actual financial support for the game"? If you're talking about patreon support, what kind of prerequisites need to be filled to reach that point? Are there any points below that milestone that involve receiving funds to which the artists have no claim to? A bit more info on that very delicate matter would be very helpful, considering this is in your words an ambitious project, and pixel work is quite possibly the heaviest load in an ambitious MV project.

1. The first milestone is the first public release, upon which we'll see over the next 2-3 weeks to what degree people are interested & willing to support the game. Once that happens, we intend to establish a legally binding contract with with all team members. The revenue share or payment, however, is very much based on the degree of involvement.

As the different roles outline, we're flexible in what time commitment someone can put in, but whatever isn't done by that person has to be done by us (which is what we're currently doing).

2. The most important thing to keep in mind is that there are never any guarantees. Especially not with indy games. Teams can disband, projects can fail, artists can decide to leave and take their art elsewhere, interest of the community can end up lacking. If you're looking at it from a financial point of view and are interested in working on the project for merely financial gain, it's difficult to end up happy.
Say you join the team, get a 1-1-1 33% split of revenue because you work on it full time. After a few months you decide to leave. This means that you got 33% of initially maybe 1k euro for a full time job, during the early stages while revenue was lowest.
That's why I especially want people to have goals of their own, so even if someone jumps in, realizes it's not something they want to do or more work than they expected, they can still leave feeling they gained something.

and pixel work is quite possibly the heaviest load in an ambitious MV project.

I think that's probably what everyone who has a particular section he works on thinks. But searching & designing the sounds of 100+ spells or keying their combat animations isn't a small thing either. Or drawing full-body busts, CG pictures etc. Or designing detailed cut-scenes, designing & balancing challenging battles, writing the quest designs, game dialogues and overarching story that's beyond your "Let's save the princess story".
Ambitious RPG Maker projects are always work, in every aspect.

author=unity
Applicants also will want to be sure to know exactly what they're getting into, which you can only get if you look at their design doc. I was wondering why the description of the game was so vague on this page.

Details like this from the design doc:

In Incandescent Shade, you play Ren, a young “femboy”/trap

and the fact that the game has "innocent vs corruption" features where sex apparently corrupts you, is def something potential applicants will want to consider before applying.

The game does actually not involve corruption-sex, it's rather that Ren can choose what kind of sexual encounters to engage in (seducing people in quests for gains, or romancing party members, etc.) and those have an effect on how Ren sexually develops and open new possibilities while closing others. Innocence/Corruption is more based on whether sex becomes something that Ren is addicted to and gives into - or something that he enjoys but he seeks positive, emotional sex, rather than being consumed by lust.

The description isn't kept vague to veil things, it's to keep the overview brief so people don't die by wall of text. ;) There's a reason we've attached a more elaborate game concept with pictures to the thread.

author=orange-
I think you should definitely get the artist under the same Patreon/monetization you guys intend to be. I've got a decent amount of experience in making jRPGs with fully custom assets and I'd say 70% of the entire work load in making a jRPG is making graphics. (this of course varies from game to game but it's still a huge amount of work) Leaving a person who'd do that much out is madness. So my tip is to look for someone who'd be a dedicated team member with equal importance to you.

For a game with fully custom assets, including tilesets, including own character sprites on a new standard, etc. I'd agree that it's a huge amount of work. But as I responded above - if you want quality, everything becomes a huge amount of work. You can spend a few days, staring at javascript lines, trying to figure out how to make something work like a variable bust-display that automatically displays a bust based on what outfit your character wears and with the correct emotion, without having to script a variant of dialogue for every outfit that may at some point exist. ;)

We're not just making a standard adult jRPG, though. There's an actual story that plays an important role, and we're putting a lot of effort into a combat design that goes beyond "press the attack button". It's more a party-based RPG with a full-blown story that features sexual content in addition to everything else.

Asset-wise, we've bought tilsets that allow for non-RTP maps and we're using (for standard non-main characters) a generator base I've worked on with others at the end of last year that allows improved Dark-Fantasy characters to be created in moments. So we won't have a fully unique entirely new-created asset-base specific to the project, and there are ways to not have to draw everything from zero.

Ideally, the pixel artist would be interested enough in the game that he can work as a full team member - which also entails other work beyond spriting. (Currently, the pixel sprites we need are relatively limited at this stage compared to other stuff that needs to be done.)

But as I keep saying: money shouldn't be the motivating factor.
Games never take off on patreon like a rocket, someone who needs or wishes for compensation would, even with a sizeable share, probably jump off the moment they realize making games is not bathing in a money-pit but a lot of labor for something you have to like and wish to see realized.

That's why one of our primary criteria is that someone has to be interested in the game & wants to see it get created. Otherwise they'll jump ship the moment they realize how much work it is - or if they feel the patreon isn't making them enough money. (Any skilled artist can get a much more stable, much more reliable income by seeking actual employment.)