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can we literally have one fun discussion about representation without our resident gamergate muppet sliding in to say 'okay but REAL activism is not caring about things and political correctness is a plague :-)'
ubon- 07/24/2015 05:21 PM
Posts 
CloseNo because no one here really wants to have an actual discussion; its all about that mud slinging and bullshit now a days.
Alichains
637
Please don't bring Kermit into this. Yelling about things he doesn't actually know anything about is not his style.
I'm pretty sure his account is set up to automatically notify him via e-mail whenever a thread about social issues is started.
ubon
66
author=Zeigfried_McBacon
No because no one here really wants to have an actual discussion; its all about that mud slinging and bullshit now a days.
the entire topic up to that point was people interested in an actual discussion! it went for one and a half pages of varied but civil hashing-out of opinions before, as always happens, a credulous gamer with something to prove slid in to try and shut people up because he'd been taught to feel threatened by the fact that it's a topic people care about.
pretending that we're all equally complicit in this is worse than useless. if even now you deny that there are certain groups of people who take specific interest in squashing this kind of discussion, particularly when it involves marginalized voices or progressive ideas, then I have to wonder why.
ubon
66
'yeah the topic was great until someone with a gamergate avatar showed up and started regurgitating gamergate talking points specifically to shut the discussion down'
'um that's cool but have you maybe considered that you didn't want a discussion at all? :-)'
'um that's cool but have you maybe considered that you didn't want a discussion at all? :-)'
Alichains
637
I always find it funny that people who claim to support free speech are always so quick to try and shut down any speech they dislike.
author=mawkauthor=Zeigfried_McBaconthe entire topic up to that point was people interested in an actual discussion! it went for one and a half pages of varied but civil hashing-out of opinions before, as always happens, a credulous gamer with something to prove slid in to try and shut people up because he'd been taught to feel threatened by the fact that it's a topic people care about.
No because no one here really wants to have an actual discussion; its all about that mud slinging and bullshit now a days.
pretending that we're all equally complicit in this is worse than useless. if even now you deny that there are certain groups of people who take specific interest in squashing this kind of discussion, particularly when it involves marginalized voices or progressive ideas, then I have to wonder why.
But what's to be done about it, I wonder? All of these threads generally start with genuine debate and actual conversation, until someone with a loud voice who refuses to compromise or allow things to remain civil comes in, and I just end up bailing, because as much as I care about the subject, I don't need the pointless disappointment of it all, especially when it's the same as any countless number of threads that ended up the same way.
In this case, I didn't post in the thread at all, because I saw it coming. Am I bad for avoiding a topic that has merit because I don't want the pain and hostility that seems to always follow?
ubon
66
I don't think that avoiding a topic because you know someone shitty will show up is bad, no. this is a deliberate silencing tactic in pretty common use, and there's very little to be done about it from what I know; I'm a scary monster who can comfortably call out that shit, but many of the people with the most interesting things to say on these subjects are more vulnerable, and saying that people need to willingly leap waist-deep into stuff they find deeply, personally unpleasant for the sake of the discussion would be kind of awful.
in the end, it's just air. I know a lot of brilliant people who don't involve themselves in these debates for the sake of their happiness or mental health, and I feel that's the correct decision. many of them are putting those thoughts to work by creative or systemic means, which will have far more long-term influence than a cat avatar biting a gamergate avatar in half.
in the end, it's just air. I know a lot of brilliant people who don't involve themselves in these debates for the sake of their happiness or mental health, and I feel that's the correct decision. many of them are putting those thoughts to work by creative or systemic means, which will have far more long-term influence than a cat avatar biting a gamergate avatar in half.
author=unity
In this case, I didn't post in the thread at all, because I saw it coming. Am I bad for avoiding a topic that has merit because I don't want the pain and hostility that seems to always follow?
No, in the end, it was for the best. You got a rep to maintain uni and you dont need some thread gone to shit ruin it.
And mawk, just what the hell were you implying with that last line? :/
Wow, that's a very nice way to look about it. Thanks, that cheers me up considerably ^_^ I'll try to remember that in the future.
ubon
66
author=Zeigfried_McBacon
And mawk, just what the hell were you implying with that last line? :/
if I ever mean to imply something, I usually just say it outright. I am very straightforward, because I have no talent for implications or metaphor.
that said, I am also prone to get annoyed at people with uncontroversial centrist opinions when they don't deserve it! so I'm sorry if I came off as though I was judging you as complicit in his actions. my intention was to express frustration with the 'both sides' thing which always crops up in these discussions.
More hugs!
I don't mind talking while it's still nice and comfortable.
I won't stand for someone shouting and shouting everything down. Hard to hear under all that shouting, y'know? Makes my ears hurt.
And if they feel they have to do it, it's not my call to change that.
At some point you gotta avoid the noise if you can't just turn it down.
Mawk, you can relax knowing that it's bullshit. You called it out, and for all interested it is there in plain view, for anyone to decide on their own accord and with their own intellect and opinions.
Someone just shouting it down is only going to demonstrate the pointlessness of that endeavor.
I do see the "both sides" happen a lot, and everybody should know deep down how pointless that is. Just like the "but the children in Africa..!" shut-down or anything of the like. Even if it was true, it contributes absolutely nothing.
We've all been subject to it one way or another, too often even, we are just far too used to it.
I respect your opinions a whole lot, but you gotta let go sometimes and just let people be themselves. Good or bad.
I don't mind talking while it's still nice and comfortable.
I won't stand for someone shouting and shouting everything down. Hard to hear under all that shouting, y'know? Makes my ears hurt.
And if they feel they have to do it, it's not my call to change that.
At some point you gotta avoid the noise if you can't just turn it down.
Mawk, you can relax knowing that it's bullshit. You called it out, and for all interested it is there in plain view, for anyone to decide on their own accord and with their own intellect and opinions.
Someone just shouting it down is only going to demonstrate the pointlessness of that endeavor.
I do see the "both sides" happen a lot, and everybody should know deep down how pointless that is. Just like the "but the children in Africa..!" shut-down or anything of the like. Even if it was true, it contributes absolutely nothing.
We've all been subject to it one way or another, too often even, we are just far too used to it.
I respect your opinions a whole lot, but you gotta let go sometimes and just let people be themselves. Good or bad.
author=mawk
if I ever mean to imply something, I usually just say it outright. I am very straightforward, because I have no talent for implications or metaphor.
Look, I dont want any bad blood here ok? I'll admit that there was some degree hyperbole in that post, but it should have been obvious. If anything, I find a lot of this immature crap going on to be frustrating as well, though some of the reason are different. Im just having one of those days and find myself getting pissed at a lot of things that should normally be meh.
ubon
66
tbh I sometimes wonder if I'm a catalyst for this kind of nonsense? I made a lot of bad friends in the old days, and my methods and aesthetic still attract that kind of person to a degree.
or they just know that I'm fast and loose enough with a topic's subject that they can count on me to help derail things instead of just shutting them down calmly, whoops
or they just know that I'm fast and loose enough with a topic's subject that they can count on me to help derail things instead of just shutting them down calmly, whoops
Alichains
637
I suspect that the best solution would be to have anyone who wants to participate in a discussion to mute Max before hand so that if/when he posts he'll end up just screaming into the wind.
