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SET EQUIPMENT WEIGHT -OR- WEIGHT FOR WORTH?
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Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Corfaisus
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CloseNo one wants to feel like the weight of the world is on their shoulders, but fortunately, our RPG characters do all the heavy lifting for us. Unfortunately, without doing them a few favors (WTB phoenix down :/ ), we're not going to be able to get very far. Sometimes, a compromise is just what the doctor ordered; but how much should that compromise compromise in terms of keeping progression moving at a healthy rate?
To get to the point, what do you believe is the best way to go about applying weight to your equipment. Would you prefer each equipment type to weigh down on your agility stat at a consistent number (daggers always weigh 1 while scythes weigh 4), which makes weight little more than an inconsequential throw-in, or would you prefer your equipment to progressively get heavier as your agility stat rises with leveling as if to inspire an invisible stat requirement and a desire to mix-and-match weaker armor (sometimes giving those lower worth pieces any viable use, such as making fuller use of a weapon with half the strength but attacks twice) for stronger weapons or vice-versa?
To get to the point, what do you believe is the best way to go about applying weight to your equipment. Would you prefer each equipment type to weigh down on your agility stat at a consistent number (daggers always weigh 1 while scythes weigh 4), which makes weight little more than an inconsequential throw-in, or would you prefer your equipment to progressively get heavier as your agility stat rises with leveling as if to inspire an invisible stat requirement and a desire to mix-and-match weaker armor (sometimes giving those lower worth pieces any viable use, such as making fuller use of a weapon with half the strength but attacks twice) for stronger weapons or vice-versa?
The more personal choices I have, the more I enjoy a game, so it's good news when weight also makes a difference, more interesting.
Cozzer
0
It doesn't make much sense from an in-universe standpoint for equipment to become heavier as you level up... the best heavy armor in the world is as heavy as the worst one, I guess.
I would make agility an almost static stat (maybe it's 20 at level 1 and 30 at level 100, instead of 20 at level 1 and 500 at level 100) and go with different weights for different item types.
The mix-and-match can still happen, but with different types of items instead that with different "tiers" (a light helmet with an heavy full-plate, or maybe light armor with a heavy two-handed sword...)
I would make agility an almost static stat (maybe it's 20 at level 1 and 30 at level 100, instead of 20 at level 1 and 500 at level 100) and go with different weights for different item types.
The mix-and-match can still happen, but with different types of items instead that with different "tiers" (a light helmet with an heavy full-plate, or maybe light armor with a heavy two-handed sword...)
Crystalgate
694
I would not subtract from the agility stat. It has the effect of making the weight less noticeable on agile characters. If your agility lowers from 50 to 45, that's a 10% loss of agility while a loss from 20 to 15 is a 25% loss. That seems counterintuitive to me. I would make weight have a percentile effect on agility if I wanted to go that route. This also means you don't have to worry about the weight becoming obsolete once a character gains more agility.
I use "soul weight" in Edifice, although I just call it Capacity.
You have five Essence slots, into which anybody can equip anything. However, each Essence uses 1-5 Capacity, and characters simply can't use more than 9 Capacity. By mastering themselves (in a sort of Persona I'll-Face-Myself way), they can equip up to 12 points of Capacity. Still, that's not enough for five super-Essence.
I get that this is not entirely what you mean, but at the same time, it is. You could easily apply this to physical weight by saying "the heavy tank can equip 40lbs of armor, the rogue can equip 20lbs, the mage can equip 10lbs."
Regarding more physical weight, I feel like it should be static - "heavy armor always reduces action speed by 25% and evasion by 15%." Keep it consistent, although of course you might have an Elven Curaiss that weighs half as much, but by the time the player finds that they'll understand what that means perfectly.
To "Equip" is to Partake in a Feast of Souls,
For Essence is but a portion of a Demon's Goals
Twisted by the Sinews of thy Demon's Heart.
The Hand that Dare sieze the Fire shall depart.
You have five Essence slots, into which anybody can equip anything. However, each Essence uses 1-5 Capacity, and characters simply can't use more than 9 Capacity. By mastering themselves (in a sort of Persona I'll-Face-Myself way), they can equip up to 12 points of Capacity. Still, that's not enough for five super-Essence.
I get that this is not entirely what you mean, but at the same time, it is. You could easily apply this to physical weight by saying "the heavy tank can equip 40lbs of armor, the rogue can equip 20lbs, the mage can equip 10lbs."
***
Regarding more physical weight, I feel like it should be static - "heavy armor always reduces action speed by 25% and evasion by 15%." Keep it consistent, although of course you might have an Elven Curaiss that weighs half as much, but by the time the player finds that they'll understand what that means perfectly.
Cozzer
0
You could also make something similar to D&D and give heavier equipments agility limits, instead of penalities.
Something like: if you wear this heavy armor, your agility is no more than 30.
This way, slow characters can use heavy armors without big penalities.
You could also vary the limits/penalities based on strength (a weak character will be more hindered by an armor than a strong one)
Something like: if you wear this heavy armor, your agility is no more than 30.
This way, slow characters can use heavy armors without big penalities.
You could also vary the limits/penalities based on strength (a weak character will be more hindered by an armor than a strong one)
Cozzer
This way, slow characters can use heavy armors without big penalities.
I'm honestly rather make speed dependent entirely on armor.
Cozzer
0
author=Craze
I'm honestly rather make speed dependent entirely on armor.
That would be a bit too much streamlining for my tastes, expecially in systems where speed is a very important factor (like ATBs or CTBs).
My idea is: a high-speed character has a fighting style that relies on agility (think a swashbuckler), so a heavy armor would hinder him; a slower character wouldn't feel its effects as much because he didn't count on his agility from the beginning.
Something I thought about a while ago. You could make it so that theres an event that calculate the party's whole weight as a whole and if it's higher than a certain threshold it would decrease the character walk speed, which would make it more difficult to dodge touch encounters as so on, but I guess this only works in conjunction with touch encounters.
I'd argue that the higher the character's strength, the less weight matters. One can decrement agility, but how much it decrements should depend on strength. For example, a physically strong character wearing heavy armor might not see as much slow-down as a physically weaker character attempting to wear the same armor.
But that's just me talking.
But that's just me talking.
TheNecromancer
3160
I don't care for games that even do that. Next thing my RPG character will need to stop and take a piss every few hours if he's drinking a lot of potions. I could do with less realism in my fantasy games. But I guess some people are compelled towards realistic games :/
To answer the question, Marrend has a good thought there. If you're going to add this realistic quality to the game, make it realistic. The same weight on a physically stronger person won't slow them down as much as the dainty wizard girl. Of course, you could give the wizard a spell to alleviate the weight to balance that out. It's a valid design choice that would offer new options, but I still don't like it. However, if you're going to use it make it interesting. Don't just slap on arbitrary values for the sake of having it in there.
The strongest armor in the game could be made of denser material, thus making it heavier. So if we're thinking in the real, yeah the strongest armor can weigh tons more than the weakest armor. Or is it only semi-real? As real as the designer wants to make it. So any choice is a valid choice and will vary greatly on opinion.
I can tolerate weight in a game when it only limits your capacity to carry stuff. Like you can only carry 70lbs worth of stuff and it slows you down a bit if you are over(or just caps your ability to carry more). That value should increase as your STR does, like in Baldur's Gate I think.
Each character typically has a strength or weakness in the AGI stat, that's part of their character build. Let AGI be determined by the character and not the gear, I say. I can see the potential to have any character fit any role, though. I still don't like the idea.
To answer the question, Marrend has a good thought there. If you're going to add this realistic quality to the game, make it realistic. The same weight on a physically stronger person won't slow them down as much as the dainty wizard girl. Of course, you could give the wizard a spell to alleviate the weight to balance that out. It's a valid design choice that would offer new options, but I still don't like it. However, if you're going to use it make it interesting. Don't just slap on arbitrary values for the sake of having it in there.
The strongest armor in the game could be made of denser material, thus making it heavier. So if we're thinking in the real, yeah the strongest armor can weigh tons more than the weakest armor. Or is it only semi-real? As real as the designer wants to make it. So any choice is a valid choice and will vary greatly on opinion.
I can tolerate weight in a game when it only limits your capacity to carry stuff. Like you can only carry 70lbs worth of stuff and it slows you down a bit if you are over(or just caps your ability to carry more). That value should increase as your STR does, like in Baldur's Gate I think.
Each character typically has a strength or weakness in the AGI stat, that's part of their character build. Let AGI be determined by the character and not the gear, I say. I can see the potential to have any character fit any role, though. I still don't like the idea.
Crystalgate
694
I would definitely not recommend including weight penalty for the sake of realism, rather I think you should add it as a trade-off system if you want it at all.
If we really want to talk realism, armor did not in real life slow you down a lot, contrary to what some rumors may say. So, games which makes armor greatly impair your agility are actually not adding realism.
If we really want to talk realism, armor did not in real life slow you down a lot, contrary to what some rumors may say. So, games which makes armor greatly impair your agility are actually not adding realism.
Avee
5794
author=Crystalgate
If we really want to talk realism, armor did not in real life slow you down a lot, contrary to what some rumors may say. So, games which makes armor greatly impair your agility are actually not adding realism.
Yes. Wearing heavy equipment in real life actually lowers your endurance: the ability to withstand fatigue and continuous efforts. In other words, you get tired and weak faster... which might affect you agility over time, but other parameters such as strength, defense and evasion would be impaired as well in a realistic battle system.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Avee
Yes. Wearing heavy equipment in real life actually lowers your endurance: the ability to withstand fatigue and continuous efforts. In other words, you get tired and weak faster... which might affect you agility over time, but other parameters such as strength, defense and evasion would be impaired as well in a realistic battle system.
Over time your body would become stronger and the weight of the armor would become less of a hindrance. As you train with the armor your endurance would increase. It's only true that using the armor would reduce the amount of stamina you have vs not using armor at all, but you sacrifice defense.
For humans there is going to be a limit to how much our bodies can withstand, but in games it can make sense that the character would be able to become so strong that no armor would slow them down.
Cozzer
0
I don't think anybody here cares about realism... it's just a way to add some more complexity to the equipment choice other than "use the armor with the best defense".
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I like things with pros and cons. I like planning and strategizing my characters, and I like it when doing so is actual gameplay that can't be handled by an "optimize" button in the equipment menu.
I like it when stuff I get early in the game doesn't outdated as soon as I get the next stuff. I like it when new equipment offers me more versatility instead of just more power, and choosing whether or not to use the new equipment is a real choice instead of a no-brainer.
Give me a game with strategy and I will be a happier gamer.
That said, I'm not sure how I'm handling equipment in my upcoming game yet, but I was thinking about using weight... though not in the way you are. The plan was to give each item a weight, and let the player equip any combination of items up to a total of 10 weight per character. But I might scrap this in favor of something completely different, and/or scrap equipment completely in favor of talents (which would be almost the same thing at that point).
I like it when stuff I get early in the game doesn't outdated as soon as I get the next stuff. I like it when new equipment offers me more versatility instead of just more power, and choosing whether or not to use the new equipment is a real choice instead of a no-brainer.
Give me a game with strategy and I will be a happier gamer.
That said, I'm not sure how I'm handling equipment in my upcoming game yet, but I was thinking about using weight... though not in the way you are. The plan was to give each item a weight, and let the player equip any combination of items up to a total of 10 weight per character. But I might scrap this in favor of something completely different, and/or scrap equipment completely in favor of talents (which would be almost the same thing at that point).
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