5/2/08: THE NIGHT GAMINGW WENT UP IN FLAMES

author=Veridianne link=topic=1012.msg14165#msg14165 date=1209931446
I don't think they are doing either, I think they are trying to discourage the use of it, though. Regardless of the "You haven't read/understand what we are trying to say!"

You really need to read THE WHOLE thread posted on GW to understand anything.

They're not disencouraging anyone, they're ENCOURAGING users of other makers to join the community and ALL makers to strive for quality (ie, being posted on the mainpage). That is, making the community bigger and better.

How you ask? Well, they'l keep the old G&D forum as it is; they're just moving the "finished games" forum and making it more... prominent :).

Edit: Whatever. =X

I don't want to bring the argument over here to RMN where it honestly doesn't belong. Sentiments on staff or their intentions aside, we don't want this to resort to a silly confrontation, so I hope we don't turn it into that. =[

author=Veridianne link=topic=1012.msg14165#msg14165 date=1209931446
I don't think they are doing either, I think they are trying to discourage the use of it, though. Regardless of the "You haven't read/understand what we are trying to say!"

I love that last line, it's why the debate never goes anywhere; because they refuse to give a clear concise answer as to what they want and how they plan to go about it.

I asked this in their IRC last night three times, and the only one who gave some kind of answer was RPG.

Mr. Nemo: Pretty much what the above posts said, however, as I said again and again, "Let's not bring any of that here anymore." - -

I am glad to have pulled some people over and give them a suitable place to stay.

Now we can feed off GW remains!

I'm pretty new a GW, I lurk and what have you (so whether I even know what i'm talking about is a whole new issue) but I don't see what the big deal is about changing one forum (That is what we're talking about right? I'm a lil confused). Is it worth going on this forum, and slagging off? a place you've all been on for years? I must be failing at seeing the bigger picture here.

author=Karsuman link=topic=1012.msg14183#msg14183 date=1209935960
It's not so much that one mildly demeaning thread - that was hardly the most offensive thing to come out of the GW staffers/admins.

This whole 'G&D problem' has been hilariously mismanaged. The only reason the admins did anything at all was because Bart got pissed off and yelled at them for sucking at their jobs. Moving forums around and tweaking the rules a bit won't solve the problems at GW because the real problem is that the admins fundamentally don't care about G&D, and would gladly get rid of it if that didn't permanently kill off their only influx of new members and make it a fundamentally pointless community site based around cum stains on game screenshots and targ.

But I digress.

... "based on cum stains on gamescreenshots" is the point of the whole discussion; I beg you to actually read the topic. They want to broaden the accessability of their forums, they want new people to join. Isn't that a good thing?

author=sanosuke link=topic=1012.msg14200#msg14200 date=1209937595
Well thats cool but I think we need to put this link in GW G&D section to give people who feel like they are being shitted on a place to go or atleast bring awarness that sites like this exists....anyone willing to make a topic in G&D for people like me who had no clue about this site and didn't know where else to put info on their rm games?

Who is being shitted on? I don't feel that way. And look at strangeluv; he just released a very impressive rm2k3 game, do you see him getting pissed on?

Also, posting a topic on GW to urge everyone to get out of there is pretty much something that may very well cause a conflict. And that's not very desirable, in my eyes.

They want to broaden the accessability of their forums, they want new people to join. Isn't that a good thing?

Of course it is. But not at the expense of GW's existing core members who have been loyal for years. Their idea is fundamentally "Okay we're sweeping you all under the rug so we can open to door to better people!" Maybe it just doesn't matter to you, and that's fine, but try to understand our position.

One of the things that really bugged me was the way Nightblade was treated. You have people like Steel and bazookatooth (two of the few I refer to as the Steel Crew) who will insult anyone who disagrees with them, yet they look down on NB because he critisizes games harshly. NB is one of the few (former) G&D members who's opinion I really respect because he's not afraid of hurting your feelings. Sometimes you need to hear something harsh in order to improve. I think one of the big problems that was going on with G&D was people were sacrificing quality to make something unique and it usually ended up being BAD.

author=ImmortalDreamer link=topic=1012.msg14209#msg14209 date=1209938931
One of the things that really bugged me was the way Nightblade was treated. You have people like Steel and bazookatooth (two of the few I refer to as the Steel Crew) who will insult anyone who disagrees with them, yet they look down on NB because he critisizes games harshly. NB is one of the few (former) G&D members who's opinion I really respect because he's not afraid of hurting your feelings. Sometimes you need to hear something harsh in order to improve. I think one of the big problems that was going on with G&D was people were sacrificing quality to make something unique and it usually ended up being BAD.

Just a quick correction, Im suspended until June 22nd, and if the staff haven't completely razed the community into the ground I'll still continue to visit the site.

ImmortalDreamer, apparently the things I say are considered "trolling" to them, when I said to the contrary, well I got banned for it. Take away from that what you will.

Last night on IRC I was told I was being trolled by community staff, as absurd as that sounds. Apparently, the community staff on GW are in no way obligated to behave themselves; which is kind of ironic, don't you think?

Sarevok came to visit too! After calling me a "cunt" for "trolling" he quickly departed back to whatever it was he was doing.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to bring this debate here; but debate over this goes in an endless loop. An endless loop where one side constantly mis understands the other. I can only speak for myself; but here's what I agree with.

Great: I'd love a higher quality of all types of games.
Great: I'd like more people to come to the site
Great: I'd love to be scrutinized to a higher standard

I don't know how many times one must state this to these people, but there's NOTHING wrong with the goal, but how do they go about this? They have trash talking, trolling "community staff" belittling the maker Game and Demo was founded on? When a disagreement is raised, suddenly the person is "cunt" who "only likes crappy FF clones"? It just looks like the other side is very out of touch and refuses to see game and demo's side of the argument, passing off as ignorance.

http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=71580.new#new

This is the thread I made in G&D to bring awarness to what is going on.


For those members banned (Heres looking at you NB) and can't read what is in the link, this is what I wrote:

I'm sure, at least I hope that many of you are aware of the current state and mind set of the community staff members and their opinions on G&D and the RPG Maker Community. If you have been living under a rock then you need to check these links out:

http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=71518.0
-Game and Demo idea (fuck bridging dat gap)

http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=70961.0
-Death to professionalism in amateur games!

Those are the two big ones I know of.

Basically this is what is going on: The staff, certain mods, and certain members of the Gaming World community feel that Gaming World is losing members and credibility in the eyes of indie game developers. It is apparently a fact that member activity has come to an all time low, that people are leaving, and others are scared to come into GW because they feel it is a complete joke after one glance at the G&D section.

There are many Staff members who believe that G&D is ruining Gaming World. It is their opinion that the members from G&D are:

"Type A people"- Members who don't contribute to the site, post their own screens but rarley give feedback to others or partake in other parts of the community.
"Circle Jerkers"
"13 year old Final Fantasy Fanboys"
"Lack any real creativity"
The list goes on and on.

Anyways it has become an acceptable notion that people from G&D are producing fluff and have nothing real to contribute...that the games are cliche and seen as a joke.

This notion has seen many of the GW members banned for defending themselves and this part of the community..many have already left (Or have decided to move on voluntarily) in just the past few days.
Among these members are:

Verridian
Immortal Dreamer
Nightblade
Blindmind
and me, Sanosuke.

To the credit of certain Admins the only thing they are trying to accomplish is creating a better GW where indie gamers can come and to support them while still catering to the rm community...which is fine.

The thing is that many of the members who run the site have a great deal of bias towards anything RM, this is the problem that has lead to many well known and long time members leaving Gaming World.

So I got a PM from Verridian linking me to this site for all things RM: http://www.rpgmaker.net/forums/index.php

This is how Verridian described the site to me:


Quote
The site is owned by a guy named "rcholbert" -- but he's really more of a patron than an admin, the coding is handled by WIP. The site is new, so its small. Though in actuality, its older than GW, but never fully realized until now. The mainsite is a bit shabby because its undergoing renovation, but its very functional compared to the ... blog we have here.

http://wip.rpgmaker.net/rmn3/

These are the screenshots on the new version set to come out soon. However, that layout will probably chance because I am now helping out with graphics and I will ... make up for what lack of design inspirations WIP has. :-P

But yes, the site is very much open and relaxed, it just started getting more active lately, and things here (layout and offer wise) will be changing soon.


The site is basically a place to go for any G&Der who isn't interested in changing how they want to make games to please certain people who are advocating a change in the RM community and scolding it's members for producing, in their eyes "crap"/ fluff.

This topic is meant to bring awareness. I did not know that this site existed so it was a great relief for me to see that this is a place I can post my work with out it being looked down just because it is made in Rpg maker. There is a stigma related to the rm community and http://www.rpgmaker.net/forums/index.php is a refuge or at least that is how I see it.

Wether your looking to escape the recent ideals of Gaming World or looking for another place to post your RPG maker games this is the site to look to.

To the mods: Since this is to bring AWARENESS to the people at G&D I wanted to post this topic here as I don't think this belongs any where else.

What ever you guys choose to do is up to you. Have fun.